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I have a strong suspicion that the Works Progress Administration may come about if Biden wins the election. There's a lot of bridges going into disrepair, new t

I have a strong suspicion that the Works Progress Administration may come about if Biden wins the election. There's a lot of bridges going into disrepair, new transit projects we _should_ pursue- not to say that everyone employed by this program is necessarily qualified to build a bridge, but if the opportunity is there I wouldn't be shocked if it drew unemployed folks. But again, "if".

AuryGlenz 6y ago
Maybe it’s due to where I live, but I’ve never understood throwing money in to roads and the like as stimulus. Construction crews are already busy all the time, and a company isn’t going to hire another 100 untrained workers to tackle an additional project and then fire them again. I remember one local road being resurfaced during the 2008 stimulus that was perfectly fine before. It was just an easy road for them to shut down.
- mullingitover 6y ago
  From what I understand, the biggest economic lever the government has to boost the economy is the humble food stamp. However, the second-biggest lever is building infrastructure. The reverse-lever for economic stimulus is tax cuts.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  There's plenty of long term work available that isn't a waste. Modernizing plumbing and sewage systems, running fiber connections to all homes, building public transit systems, etc. All of these would take decades and provide for long careers.
  - refurb 6y ago
    Isn’t there a shortage of trade workers already? If the gov’t decides to fund a bunch of infrastructure projects, I don’t see a mad rush of people deciding to make a career in the trades.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      Then increase the pay until they do.
      - refurb 6y ago
        The pay is quite good right now. A skilled welder willing to move around can clear $100K per year and it can go above that, especially if you run your own business. Lots of folks don't consider the trades "prestigious" enough.
        lotsofpulp 6y ago
        Obviously it's not good enough. Bump up the pay to $500k, and it will magically become "prestigious" enough. I also wouldn't want to wreck my body for $100k if I can make $80k sitting in an office at a keyboard doing a Mon-Fri 8AM to 5PM and get to sleep at home every night. And work from home during a pandemic. Right now, society is taking advantage of people who have to sacrifice their bodies because they have no other options. If the supply of people having to sacrifice their bodies drops, then the price point has to rise to compensate for that.
        refurb 6y ago
        Well, the people not going into the trades don't have an $80k office job option. They're alternative is a $30k retail job and they still don't want to go into the trades. It's more than just money.
        lotsofpulp 6y ago
        If there is a shortage of them, clearly there is a more attractive alternative, even if it’s a $30k retail job. Money is the tool used to incentivize people to do things.
renewiltord 6y ago
The world has changed, homie. The construction unions will slay you if you try to substitute their labour with lots of other people. You will lose the game. If you have a WPA, it'll look like this: * Funding for existing construction companies * Higher pay for construction workers * Roughly the same employment You've got to remember that high employment is not a union goal. If they can get five $250k construction workers over fifteen $80k construction workers, they'll do it. That's not a criticism. It's a transparent aim that unions fight for their members. That's what makes them worthwhile.
- mullingitover 6y ago
  > You will lose the game. Until you don't. Just ask the air traffic controllers' union. I don't mean this to say I'm anti-union, but just there are net-good and net-bad employers, there are net-good and net-bad unions. For things to get better at the national level everyone is going to have to sacrifice.
  - renewiltord 6y ago
    All right, I guess we'll see. Life is good for construction workers, right now. Lots of work to go around. I don't think they'll change that. "Everyone has to make a sacrifice" doesn't mean anything when you can't make them.
    - mullingitover 6y ago
      My point with the air traffic controllers is just that: you absolutely can make them. The air traffic controllers thought they had a supreme bargaining position, but then suddenly they discovered that their power was a social construct and could be ripped away when they overplayed their hand. I don't think it will happen, but my point is that it can if they overplay their hand.
      - renewiltord 6y ago
        Right. I know what you're saying and I hope for it to be true. I'm just sceptical they don't have the power.

AuryGlenz 6y ago

Maybe it’s due to where I live, but I’ve never understood throwing money in to roads and the like as stimulus. Construction crews are already busy all the time, and a company isn’t going to hire another 100 untrained workers to tackle an additional project and then fire them again. I remember one local road being resurfaced during the 2008 stimulus that was perfectly fine before. It was just an easy road for them to shut down.

mullingitover 6y ago
From what I understand, the biggest economic lever the government has to boost the economy is the humble food stamp. However, the second-biggest lever is building infrastructure. The reverse-lever for economic stimulus is tax cuts.
lotsofpulp 6y ago
There's plenty of long term work available that isn't a waste. Modernizing plumbing and sewage systems, running fiber connections to all homes, building public transit systems, etc. All of these would take decades and provide for long careers.
- refurb 6y ago
  Isn’t there a shortage of trade workers already? If the gov’t decides to fund a bunch of infrastructure projects, I don’t see a mad rush of people deciding to make a career in the trades.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    Then increase the pay until they do.
    - refurb 6y ago
      The pay is quite good right now. A skilled welder willing to move around can clear $100K per year and it can go above that, especially if you run your own business. Lots of folks don't consider the trades "prestigious" enough.
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        Obviously it's not good enough. Bump up the pay to $500k, and it will magically become "prestigious" enough. I also wouldn't want to wreck my body for $100k if I can make $80k sitting in an office at a keyboard doing a Mon-Fri 8AM to 5PM and get to sleep at home every night. And work from home during a pandemic. Right now, society is taking advantage of people who have to sacrifice their bodies because they have no other options. If the supply of people having to sacrifice their bodies drops, then the price point has to rise to compensate for that.
        refurb 6y ago
        Well, the people not going into the trades don't have an $80k office job option. They're alternative is a $30k retail job and they still don't want to go into the trades. It's more than just money.
        lotsofpulp 6y ago
        If there is a shortage of them, clearly there is a more attractive alternative, even if it’s a $30k retail job. Money is the tool used to incentivize people to do things.

renewiltord 6y ago

The world has changed, homie. The construction unions will slay you if you try to substitute their labour with lots of other people. You will lose the game. If you have a WPA, it'll look like this: * Funding for existing construction companies * Higher pay for construction workers * Roughly the same employment You've got to remember that high employment is not a union goal. If they can get five $250k construction workers over fifteen $80k construction workers, they'll do it. That's not a criticism. It's a transparent aim that unions fight for their members. That's what makes them worthwhile.

mullingitover 6y ago
> You will lose the game. Until you don't. Just ask the air traffic controllers' union. I don't mean this to say I'm anti-union, but just there are net-good and net-bad employers, there are net-good and net-bad unions. For things to get better at the national level everyone is going to have to sacrifice.
- renewiltord 6y ago
  All right, I guess we'll see. Life is good for construction workers, right now. Lots of work to go around. I don't think they'll change that. "Everyone has to make a sacrifice" doesn't mean anything when you can't make them.
  - mullingitover 6y ago
    My point with the air traffic controllers is just that: you absolutely can make them. The air traffic controllers thought they had a supreme bargaining position, but then suddenly they discovered that their power was a social construct and could be ripped away when they overplayed their hand. I don't think it will happen, but my point is that it can if they overplay their hand.
    - renewiltord 6y ago
      Right. I know what you're saying and I hope for it to be true. I'm just sceptical they don't have the power.