7 ms·

This is where the gig economy shines, when people want to use it to make extra money on the side or push to achieve financial goals. However, by your own admiss

This is where the gig economy shines, when people want to use it to make extra money on the side or push to achieve financial goals. However, by your own admission you did it because you were "bored" and wanted to make some money. Unfortunately many gig workers don't have the privilege. I'm assuming here but you probably had another job and benefits. There are many workers who don't, and are turning to Uber or Lyft just to put food on the table and are being forced into working without paid vacation, sick leave, or benefits simply because they have no other options. I think corporations taking advantages of the imbalances is a race to the bottom. I believe we should find a 21st century approach to fixing these imbalances so that we don't take opportunities like yours away, but also work to protect labor rights/power that has been much eroded in the last decades.

manigandham 6y ago
Driving jobs already exist if that’s what they wanted. Turning ridesharing into full-time employment doesn't solve anything other than removing the freelance opportunity for many who find it fits their situation best.
- axlee 6y ago
  > Nobody is being forced into anything. They're choosing this because it's the best opportunity. That is such a lazy take. Of course people are forced to take whatever job is available: humans need food, shelter and healthcare. If society doesn't collectively agree about a minimum standard of what a job entails, you inevitably ends up with the "bottom of the barrel" living in inhumane conditions. As a society, it is our duty to lift up the standards, not lower them and trample on the already destitute.
  - etchalon 6y ago
    Anybody who thinks you can't be "forced into a job" has never been desperately poor.
  - manigandham 6y ago
    Why don't these people accept the existing full-time driving jobs then? Is it because flexibility is paramount and they might already have other commitments? Why convert many existing opportunities into fewer worse jobs? What's that solve exactly? Do you think there should be no independent contractors? Do you also object to freelancer writers or artists?
    - kelnos 6y ago
      > Why don't these people accept the existing full-time driving jobs then? I expect that the number of full-time driving opportunities available would cover maybe a single-digit percentage of (pre-covid) Lyft/Uber drivers.
    - axlee 6y ago
      > Why don't these people accept the existing full-time driving jobs then? Which jobs? The ones that got slaughtered when Uber&co undercutted the whole market because they did not have to provide their workers with the basic standards that their competitors have to (i.e insurance, benefits, min. wage)? > Is it because flexibility is paramount and they might already have other commitments? How is that related? Flexibility doesn't mean having no rights. You can absolutely have a flexible schedule as an employee. > Why convert many existing opportunities into fewer worse jobs? What you call opportunity, I call exploitation in the current way Uber&co run their businesses. > Do you think there should be no independent contractors? Do you also object to freelancer writers or artists? How is that related? The relationship and power balance between Uber and their drivers is not even close to "two independant parties", and the courts of California and many other countries around the world agree with me. There is nothing "freelance" about being an Uber driver.
      - manigandham 6y ago
        Buses, trucking, shuttles, delivery, emergency, construction, medical transport, etc. Many exist that are unfilled right now. Explain why they're unfilled and yet ridesharing has so many people? What rights are missing? Be specific. What's lacking in the power balance? How is different than any other contractor position? Is it a problem if contract writers are told what to write? Is it a problem if contract tech support are told to deal with customers? Why or why not?
mullingitover 6y ago
> Unfortunately many gig workers don't have the privilege. Gig work turning into full time work out of necessity is the band-aid on the bullet wound. The unemployment numbers were down, in large part due to gig work, but that work never should've been counted as real employment. So rather than address the underlying problem with something like the New Deal's Works Progress Administration, which was the real and necessary answer, we papered things over with gig work out of a deep-seated philosophical hatred of government as a primary employer. Now, rather than admit gig work was never a real solution for employment, we're trying to force it to be that by fiat, and acting shocked when this wrongheaded strategy isn't working.
- murph-almighty 6y ago
  I have a strong suspicion that the Works Progress Administration may come about if Biden wins the election. There's a lot of bridges going into disrepair, new transit projects we _should_ pursue- not to say that everyone employed by this program is necessarily qualified to build a bridge, but if the opportunity is there I wouldn't be shocked if it drew unemployed folks. But again, "if".
  - AuryGlenz 6y ago
    Maybe it’s due to where I live, but I’ve never understood throwing money in to roads and the like as stimulus. Construction crews are already busy all the time, and a company isn’t going to hire another 100 untrained workers to tackle an additional project and then fire them again. I remember one local road being resurfaced during the 2008 stimulus that was perfectly fine before. It was just an easy road for them to shut down.
    - mullingitover 6y ago
      From what I understand, the biggest economic lever the government has to boost the economy is the humble food stamp. However, the second-biggest lever is building infrastructure. The reverse-lever for economic stimulus is tax cuts.
    - 6y ago
ccffpphh 6y ago
What were these people doing before Uber and Lyft came around?
- fizzled 6y ago
  That's like offering someone who is starving a shit sandwich: "What, it's a sandwich, eat it. Or do you like starving?" Capitalism frequently tries to (and succeeds) exploit the poorest citizens: they are desperate. Laws like this exist to protect the weakest from exploitation.
  - twblalock 6y ago
    Giving someone a job they want is not exploitation. If gig workers wanted to be unemployed they could easily do that instead, but they chose to look for a job, someone offered them a job, and they took it. Why should the state interfere in that arrangement and take that job away?
  - chasd00 6y ago
    "Laws like this exist to protect the weakest from exploitation." maybe that was the intent but, in reality, you just destroyed your poorest citizen by taking what little they did have away. I get it, passing a law was the easiest thing for you to do because it shifts all responsibility but don't think too high of yourself.
- runarberg 6y ago
  Taking similar gig in other industries, such as gardening, constructions, telemarketing and support, pet care, beauty industry, etc. The gig economy did not start with Uber or AirBnB.
  - apta 6y ago
    Except now with AB5, those populations are at risk too.
    - lefrenchy 6y ago
JamesBarney 6y ago
> Unfortunately many gig workers don't have the privilege. I'm assuming here but you probably had another job and benefits. There are many workers who don't, and are turning to Uber or Lyft just to put food on the table and are being forced into working without paid vacation, sick leave, or benefits simply because they have no other options. These drivers who can't put food on the table without Uber(which I've personally never met) in Califoria seem in a far worse position now. No one is forcing them to do anything. They not only get to decide if they want to work, but how much, and when. And every time these laws are passed most Uber and Lyft drivers always seem far more worried they will lose their income source than they are excited they might get benefits. And almost all of my Uber and Lyft drivers had another source of income, were retired, were raising children, or had a medical condition that kept them from holding down a full time job.
- lefrenchy 6y ago
  > No one is forcing them to do anything. They not only get to decide if they want to work, but how much, and when. No they don't.. Their material conditions dictate how much they need to work to meet their basic needs (food, utilities, rent). You're assuming that people who are living paycheck to paycheck, who are backed against a wall, have the option to pick and choose if, when, and how much they work. The people in those situations are the ones we need to work the hardest to protect because they are the most vulnerable to poor conditions and exploitation/coercion. Without protections they contribute to the race to the bottom simply by nature of having no other options, making them willing to work without benefits or for low wages. > And almost all of my Uber and Lyft drivers had another source of income, were retired, were raising children, or had a medical condition that kept them from holding down a full time job. This is entirely anecdotal, on top of the fact that "raising children" or "having a medical condition" should not be an excuse to be denied economic stability and benefits.
  - chasd00 6y ago
    "This is entirely anecdotal, on top of the fact that "raising children" or "having a medical condition" should not be an excuse to be denied economic stability and benefits." well they sure as shit aren't getting _anything_ now. What a hollow victory.
usaar333 6y ago
> Unfortunately many gig workers don't have the privilege. I'm assuming here but you probably had another job and benefits. There are many workers who don't, and are turning to Uber or Lyft just to put food on the table and are being forced into working without paid vacation, sick leave, or benefits simply because they have no other options. Agreed, but is that a problem with the gig economy itself or our entire welfare system? I agree we can make life better for the workers that remain on Lyft/Uber, but what happens to the workers who were "fired" as a result of reduced ridership?

manigandham 6y ago

Driving jobs already exist if that’s what they wanted. Turning ridesharing into full-time employment doesn't solve anything other than removing the freelance opportunity for many who find it fits their situation best.

axlee 6y ago
> Nobody is being forced into anything. They're choosing this because it's the best opportunity. That is such a lazy take. Of course people are forced to take whatever job is available: humans need food, shelter and healthcare. If society doesn't collectively agree about a minimum standard of what a job entails, you inevitably ends up with the "bottom of the barrel" living in inhumane conditions. As a society, it is our duty to lift up the standards, not lower them and trample on the already destitute.
- etchalon 6y ago
  Anybody who thinks you can't be "forced into a job" has never been desperately poor.
- manigandham 6y ago
  Why don't these people accept the existing full-time driving jobs then? Is it because flexibility is paramount and they might already have other commitments? Why convert many existing opportunities into fewer worse jobs? What's that solve exactly? Do you think there should be no independent contractors? Do you also object to freelancer writers or artists?
  - kelnos 6y ago
    > Why don't these people accept the existing full-time driving jobs then? I expect that the number of full-time driving opportunities available would cover maybe a single-digit percentage of (pre-covid) Lyft/Uber drivers.
  - axlee 6y ago
    > Why don't these people accept the existing full-time driving jobs then? Which jobs? The ones that got slaughtered when Uber&co undercutted the whole market because they did not have to provide their workers with the basic standards that their competitors have to (i.e insurance, benefits, min. wage)? > Is it because flexibility is paramount and they might already have other commitments? How is that related? Flexibility doesn't mean having no rights. You can absolutely have a flexible schedule as an employee. > Why convert many existing opportunities into fewer worse jobs? What you call opportunity, I call exploitation in the current way Uber&co run their businesses. > Do you think there should be no independent contractors? Do you also object to freelancer writers or artists? How is that related? The relationship and power balance between Uber and their drivers is not even close to "two independant parties", and the courts of California and many other countries around the world agree with me. There is nothing "freelance" about being an Uber driver.
    - manigandham 6y ago
      Buses, trucking, shuttles, delivery, emergency, construction, medical transport, etc. Many exist that are unfilled right now. Explain why they're unfilled and yet ridesharing has so many people? What rights are missing? Be specific. What's lacking in the power balance? How is different than any other contractor position? Is it a problem if contract writers are told what to write? Is it a problem if contract tech support are told to deal with customers? Why or why not?

mullingitover 6y ago

> Unfortunately many gig workers don't have the privilege. Gig work turning into full time work out of necessity is the band-aid on the bullet wound. The unemployment numbers were down, in large part due to gig work, but that work never should've been counted as real employment. So rather than address the underlying problem with something like the New Deal's Works Progress Administration, which was the real and necessary answer, we papered things over with gig work out of a deep-seated philosophical hatred of government as a primary employer. Now, rather than admit gig work was never a real solution for employment, we're trying to force it to be that by fiat, and acting shocked when this wrongheaded strategy isn't working.

murph-almighty 6y ago
I have a strong suspicion that the Works Progress Administration may come about if Biden wins the election. There's a lot of bridges going into disrepair, new transit projects we _should_ pursue- not to say that everyone employed by this program is necessarily qualified to build a bridge, but if the opportunity is there I wouldn't be shocked if it drew unemployed folks. But again, "if".
- AuryGlenz 6y ago
  Maybe it’s due to where I live, but I’ve never understood throwing money in to roads and the like as stimulus. Construction crews are already busy all the time, and a company isn’t going to hire another 100 untrained workers to tackle an additional project and then fire them again. I remember one local road being resurfaced during the 2008 stimulus that was perfectly fine before. It was just an easy road for them to shut down.
  - mullingitover 6y ago
    From what I understand, the biggest economic lever the government has to boost the economy is the humble food stamp. However, the second-biggest lever is building infrastructure. The reverse-lever for economic stimulus is tax cuts.
  - 6y ago

ccffpphh 6y ago

What were these people doing before Uber and Lyft came around?

fizzled 6y ago
That's like offering someone who is starving a shit sandwich: "What, it's a sandwich, eat it. Or do you like starving?" Capitalism frequently tries to (and succeeds) exploit the poorest citizens: they are desperate. Laws like this exist to protect the weakest from exploitation.
- twblalock 6y ago
  Giving someone a job they want is not exploitation. If gig workers wanted to be unemployed they could easily do that instead, but they chose to look for a job, someone offered them a job, and they took it. Why should the state interfere in that arrangement and take that job away?
- chasd00 6y ago
  "Laws like this exist to protect the weakest from exploitation." maybe that was the intent but, in reality, you just destroyed your poorest citizen by taking what little they did have away. I get it, passing a law was the easiest thing for you to do because it shifts all responsibility but don't think too high of yourself.
runarberg 6y ago
Taking similar gig in other industries, such as gardening, constructions, telemarketing and support, pet care, beauty industry, etc. The gig economy did not start with Uber or AirBnB.
- apta 6y ago
  Except now with AB5, those populations are at risk too.
  - lefrenchy 6y ago

JamesBarney 6y ago

> Unfortunately many gig workers don't have the privilege. I'm assuming here but you probably had another job and benefits. There are many workers who don't, and are turning to Uber or Lyft just to put food on the table and are being forced into working without paid vacation, sick leave, or benefits simply because they have no other options. These drivers who can't put food on the table without Uber(which I've personally never met) in Califoria seem in a far worse position now. No one is forcing them to do anything. They not only get to decide if they want to work, but how much, and when. And every time these laws are passed most Uber and Lyft drivers always seem far more worried they will lose their income source than they are excited they might get benefits. And almost all of my Uber and Lyft drivers had another source of income, were retired, were raising children, or had a medical condition that kept them from holding down a full time job.

lefrenchy 6y ago
> No one is forcing them to do anything. They not only get to decide if they want to work, but how much, and when. No they don't.. Their material conditions dictate how much they need to work to meet their basic needs (food, utilities, rent). You're assuming that people who are living paycheck to paycheck, who are backed against a wall, have the option to pick and choose if, when, and how much they work. The people in those situations are the ones we need to work the hardest to protect because they are the most vulnerable to poor conditions and exploitation/coercion. Without protections they contribute to the race to the bottom simply by nature of having no other options, making them willing to work without benefits or for low wages. > And almost all of my Uber and Lyft drivers had another source of income, were retired, were raising children, or had a medical condition that kept them from holding down a full time job. This is entirely anecdotal, on top of the fact that "raising children" or "having a medical condition" should not be an excuse to be denied economic stability and benefits.
- chasd00 6y ago
  "This is entirely anecdotal, on top of the fact that "raising children" or "having a medical condition" should not be an excuse to be denied economic stability and benefits." well they sure as shit aren't getting _anything_ now. What a hollow victory.

usaar333 6y ago