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Honestly I find it kind of easier to get on with northern European white males.. because I am one and I hav elots in common with them.. Our parents did similar

Honestly I find it kind of easier to get on with northern European white males.. because I am one and I hav elots in common with them.. Our parents did similar things, we eat similar foods, we grew up in similar houses.. I find it easier to predict their moods and behaviours etc.. cos they are like me. However, that doesn't mean to say we are in any way right or better than any one else. When i work with people who are different to me it often makes me feel somewhat outside of my comfort zone (not in any kind of major way - just like getting a new pair of slippers or something, it feels a little different to yesterday). I just think we cannot help this at all.. so when i am asked to visualise a new start before they join.. who do i imagine, well mostly someone like me. i mean i have all sorts of practices techniques to mitigate this, but its inherently true, true of all people imho. So we have lots of jobs and areas that are thick with white men.. everything is tailored to what their needs are. start times, lengths of holidays and breaks, how long is taken for parental leave after a child is born, even the temperature of most offices is tuned to middle aged white men. We (white men) dont know what an inclusive environment is.. no single group of people does. so really we have to go for immersion therapy (or fake it till you make it).. we just have to kind of force a more diverse group of people into these roles and see what happens.. all the time trying to be respectful and accommodating. I wanted to work with computers as it was something I saw my dad doing it when i was very young (its not this simple but it almost is).. if our daughters dont see their mothers working in IT why would they put any effort into learning it? Its a chicken and egg scenario to a certain extent and this is basically the only route in we have to change the feedback loop imho. if someone comes up with another idea i am all ears.

raxxorrax 6y ago
See, if I travel to another culture, I don't expect it to change to my whims. I would think if they don't value their own culture, they probably wouldn't value mine either. I do actually work with many ethnicities and have come to the realization that they are all idiots. There are differences in representation between production and administration, but not because of bias or racism. > so really we have to go for immersion therapy No thanks. You are free to travel though. > We (white men) Jehovah's witnesses tried the same shtick once as they tried to include me in their believes, but we are no group. That would only lead to quarrels. Europe wasn't always as peaceful, even if everyone was pretty pink. > if our daughters dont see their mothers working in IT Honestly I think the situation got worse for women in the last 10 years. Through expectations placed upon them by others and themselves. Formerly it was a rarity but few really noticed it. Now their actions would be put under more scrutiny. Here bias does indeed play a role and some discussion emphasized that it apparently isn't normal for women to be in IT. > we just have to kind of force a more diverse group I fundamentally disagree that anybody needs to be forced. Freedom of association and that thing... Plus, that already happened countless times before and it will happen again.
- bahlhala 6y ago
  >> so really we have to go for immersion therapy >No thanks. You are free to travel though. I am referring to large organisations having hiring policies that encourage or force more diverse hiring.. immersion in a more diverse workplace (but still representative of the area you live in) >> if our daughters dont see their mothers working in IT >Honestly I think the situation got worse for women in the last 10 years. Through expectations placed upon them by others and themselves. Formerly it was a rarity but few really noticed it. Now their actions would be put under more scrutiny. Here bias does indeed play a role and some discussion emphasized that it apparently isn't normal for women to be in IT. So its bad but we wont bother trying to do anything about it? >> we just have to kind of force a more diverse group >I fundamentally disagree that anybody needs to be forced. Freedom of association and that thing... Plus, that already happened countless times before and it will happen again. You totally have the freedom not to work at IBM though? whats your problem, just find somewhere that doesn't have and diversity policies, is roaring sausage fest then dive right in and never look back! its not like any of this really restricts white males, its just some companies saying that's not what they want so there is an extra value to hiring something other than a white male. You cannot persecute those with huge advantages, that's not persecution that's more like regression to the mean. calling it persecution is kind of embarrassing imho. i'm a big boy i can handle that someone who is less skilled of experienced but has a different perspective could be a better investment for an organisation - after all its possible to gain skills and experience.
  - raxxorrax 6y ago
    You are free to step back from any job offering if you think you got unfair advantages but to expect it from others is where your elevated perspective falls short. On the other points we just need to disagree.

raxxorrax 6y ago

See, if I travel to another culture, I don't expect it to change to my whims. I would think if they don't value their own culture, they probably wouldn't value mine either. I do actually work with many ethnicities and have come to the realization that they are all idiots. There are differences in representation between production and administration, but not because of bias or racism. > so really we have to go for immersion therapy No thanks. You are free to travel though. > We (white men) Jehovah's witnesses tried the same shtick once as they tried to include me in their believes, but we are no group. That would only lead to quarrels. Europe wasn't always as peaceful, even if everyone was pretty pink. > if our daughters dont see their mothers working in IT Honestly I think the situation got worse for women in the last 10 years. Through expectations placed upon them by others and themselves. Formerly it was a rarity but few really noticed it. Now their actions would be put under more scrutiny. Here bias does indeed play a role and some discussion emphasized that it apparently isn't normal for women to be in IT. > we just have to kind of force a more diverse group I fundamentally disagree that anybody needs to be forced. Freedom of association and that thing... Plus, that already happened countless times before and it will happen again.

bahlhala 6y ago
>> so really we have to go for immersion therapy >No thanks. You are free to travel though. I am referring to large organisations having hiring policies that encourage or force more diverse hiring.. immersion in a more diverse workplace (but still representative of the area you live in) >> if our daughters dont see their mothers working in IT >Honestly I think the situation got worse for women in the last 10 years. Through expectations placed upon them by others and themselves. Formerly it was a rarity but few really noticed it. Now their actions would be put under more scrutiny. Here bias does indeed play a role and some discussion emphasized that it apparently isn't normal for women to be in IT. So its bad but we wont bother trying to do anything about it? >> we just have to kind of force a more diverse group >I fundamentally disagree that anybody needs to be forced. Freedom of association and that thing... Plus, that already happened countless times before and it will happen again. You totally have the freedom not to work at IBM though? whats your problem, just find somewhere that doesn't have and diversity policies, is roaring sausage fest then dive right in and never look back! its not like any of this really restricts white males, its just some companies saying that's not what they want so there is an extra value to hiring something other than a white male. You cannot persecute those with huge advantages, that's not persecution that's more like regression to the mean. calling it persecution is kind of embarrassing imho. i'm a big boy i can handle that someone who is less skilled of experienced but has a different perspective could be a better investment for an organisation - after all its possible to gain skills and experience.
- raxxorrax 6y ago
  You are free to step back from any job offering if you think you got unfair advantages but to expect it from others is where your elevated perspective falls short. On the other points we just need to disagree.