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Anti-Racist Arguments Are Tearing People Apart
- nojokes 6y agoIt looks to me that people have lost their minds - they have turned anti racism into clear and pure racism. This is also how we should call people like Robin Broshi - racist.
- readarticle 6y agoAnti-racism is a contested concept that well-meaning people define and practice differently. Folks who have different ideas about how to combat racism should engage one another. They might even attempt a reciprocal book exchange, in which everyone works to understand how others see the world.
- optimiz3 6y agoIt's the whole equality of opportunity vs equality of outcome argument all over.
- BlueScreenDeath 6y agoYep, Robin Broshi is an absolute racist yelling about how others are racist. Western white women are going full bat shit insane.
- happytoexplain 6y agoFrankly I think neither "side" in most of these arguments is clearly and consistently racist (though obviously racism is a huge problem in society regardless of these arguments), and both "sides" tend to jump to accusations of racism too quickly. I'm not putting forward a "both sides are just as bad" argument - far from it - but I'm not making that distinction right now. What I am saying is that, in cases where I do see one or both sides of one of these arguments behaving irrationally, it is almost always a too-quick jump to accusations of racism, rather than the inverse problem: Actually being racist. However, despite this being a "both sides" problem, what I think happens is that when somebody on the "anti-racism side" (or "pro-diversity side" or whatever) ends up doing something apparently racist (usually against whites), it's much more dramatic because of the opportunity to point at hypocrisy, and therefore "counts" more against them than if the other side of that argument had committed some equivalent racism against a non-white.
- nojokes 6y agoRobin Broshi is a special kind of racist. Perhaps even Racist with capital R. When I see two people sitting, she sees two people of different skin color sitting. Then she creates some construction to justify her racism.
- slimed 6y agoThat's the entire point. Divide and conquer.
- BlueScreenDeath 6y agoNot sure if there is a "point". I just see the tactics of western feminism, "victimization" is going too far and no longer makes any sense to most people, but they are yelling about the same things they have been for years. White men must pay!
- raziel2p 6y agoI was politically active on the left over 10 years ago and I still remember how a loud minority seemed obsessed with factions and seeding discord. It was a really effective tactic, made me wonder if it was active sabotage at times. Not much has changed.
- entropea 6y agoI'm still active on the left and very much into social & economic justice, but I often notice how much division these anti-sexist and anti-racist tactics create inside the left political spectrum. I don't think a lot of these tactics are friendly, engaging, and a lot are destined to generate more negative outcomes and thoughts about left policy, structural racism & sexism in my opinion. As Fred Hampton once said, you don't fight fire with fire, you fight fire with water. I agree that it almost seems like active sabotage.
- daveslash 6y agoI agree with you, and would like to add my thoughts. I realize that the people on the left who engage in such toxic tactics are a minority, but I feel the need to say something: Several people in my friends/family circle lean very much to the right, and they don't seem to really understand that the left-extremists are the minority; and extremists on the right are clutching onto these rare demonstrations and telling their conservative base that this is "all leftists". I personally know several people who equate a vote for Biden as a vote to bring exactly this type of toxic behavior mainstream - they have told me exactly that. These sorts of extreme tactics on the left push many right-leaning people into the far-right-extremes. There are a lot of legitimate points on both sides of the aisle, and it's not my intent to downplay either side here, but I do mean to say that these sorts of tactics are more than mere self-sabotage by the people employing them -- they're actively divisive.
- ardy42 6y ago> I personally know several people who equate a vote for Biden as a vote to bring exactly this type of toxic behavior mainstream - they have told me exactly that. These sorts of extreme tactics on the left push many right-leaning people into the far-right-extremes. As someone who used to be more on the right who's moving leftward (because of the current administration and a building frustration with many right wing ideas and attitudes), I can testify to the repulsive effect that these kind of displays have. I know these kinds of people are a minority, but they still concern me because of the power a zealous minority can wield in a party due to their zeal.
- watertom 6y agoThat article made my head hurt, then it made me a lot sad, then very angry. I can't tell if these people have just lost their minds, or if they are actually racists who are posing as anti-racists in order to undermine the efforts.
- raxxorrax 6y agoI had the theory that they were trolls. To my defense, at the time it got popular in my country, there were a lot of comments under news articles against Muslims and there was a general trend to put blame on them for every ill of society. People trying to make them as a group responsible for terrorism and demanded they need to distance themselves from these acts. Some form of backward kin liability. Then they blamed all men and white people. It would have been an awesome troll to make people question their reasoning. Problem was that they weren't trolling and pretty serious about it.
- klmadfejno 6y agoI saw the Anti Racist author, Ibram Kendi, speak. Honestly I wasn't really impressed with what he was saying. Yes, structural racism is a real problem. But the concept of anti-racism just did not feel well defined and just begging for semantic ambiguity that distracts from the point at hand, much like how feminism suffered from allowing detractors to claim it was about females asserting supremacy. Ideological terms move the conversation away from ideas and towards meta-arguments around what the ideology is. I found this article somewhat hard to follow but it's last paragraph seems to resonate with that. What is anti-racism? Is it: * taking proactive steps to combat racism rather than trying to avoid taking part in it? * asserting more power to minority communities that have been harmed by structural racism? * a means to justify breaking down dominantly white structures even if there's not obviously malicious racial actions at play? Which of these are good? Which of these are obviously good without nuanced discussion? If it's something like the third one, does it seem like a good idea to call that model "anti-racist" in a way that clearly antagonizes the other party merely for existing?
- hirundo 6y agoI had a girlfriend in high school that learned about feminism, and developed an annoying habit of playing "gotcha" with anything that could be spun as chauvinist. For instance anyone saying "C'mon you guys let's go eat" would get a lecture about how using the word "guys" to a mixed sex group was being oppressive. She didn't say "patriarchal" only because that word wasn't in currency yet. Years later her gotcha shtick became her profession as a college professor who taught it to a new generation, year after year. I think the events at those meetings are more about the joy of the gotcha than anti-racism versus non-racism. It just feels good to catch someone out, to be the one who sees it first. Like most pleasures it has addictive power. It wasn't because the anti-racists were actually racists that they were triggered by a white man bouncing a black baby on his lap. It was because they were scanning desperately for a gotcha to feed their habit. For a target that you disagree with, a behavior has a much lower threshold to become a gotcha. If it wasn't for the baby it could have been his supercilious smile or hair style. In modern anti-racism, not only does a gotcha not need to be justified with argument, any criticism of the gotcha is another gotcha. What I have written here is just more evidence of my own racism and sexism. They've got me.
- ardy42 6y ago> I think the events at those meetings are more about the joy of the gotcha than anti-racism versus non-racism. It just feels good to catch someone out, to be the one who sees it first. Like most pleasures it has addictive power. I think there's a term for that feeling: self-righteousness.
- bbatha 6y agoCriticizing "you guys" as a sexist term when describing a mixed gender group is a) true because there are multiple genders in the group and b) not a gotcha. She wasn't baiting you into saying sexist remarks to criticize you as a chauvinist. Her over enthusiasm may have been annoying sure, but calling it "gotcha" behavior is a way to casually dismiss anti-racists and anti-sexists without actually in their engaging arguments or even the slightest bit of self reflection. > In modern anti-racism, not only does a gotcha not need to be justified with argument, > would get a lecture about how using the word "guys" to a mixed sex group was being oppressive. Sounds like you received a justified argument that you are choosing to ignore.
- everdrive 6y agoIt’s interesting (and quite frustrating) — these are the social hysterias of our time. Could you have successfully navigated the inquisition without lying about what you believe? Obviously, no one is being tortured or killed like in the inquisition, and I simply mean to compare the coerced religious zeal. No one is ever pure enough. I often think that this is simply a mixing of impulses. Everyone has an impulse to socially judge; a tribal impulse. Most of us do not have so strong an impulse, or otherwise can easily keep it at bay. But, what happens to that tribal impulse when you think you’re fighting for good and evil? Is there anything left to temper it? Should it even be tempered? And what happens when all the fates align: and the tribal impulse, the self righteous impulse, and the attraction to power all agree on the course of action. People must be relieved from their positions of power. And you can conveniently lean on the most righteous of your motivations, while also serving your basest motivations.
- JackMorgan 6y agoIt's interesting how much this looks more like religion than anything else. Complex ideology, easily misinterpreted texts, and submission and conformity over individual critical thinking.
- acephal 6y agoThen you have the even worse trend of a certain kind of 'hip/urban' non-Black belittling a conservative Black person or a Black person who doesn't represent themself along the lines of what popular culture communicates is what counts as valid Blackness , as if the 'hip' non-Black is _more_ locked in arms with Black experience than the actual Black person they're belittling (I'm looking at you Andrew Schulz!).
- badcatosaurus 6y agoI found this article very interesting, and a bell went off when I was reading the bit about the backgrounds of the board members. Ms. Tanikawa seemed to be the most militant in her beliefs, but think her strong opposition to the magnet-school system deserves a second look. While the US officially classifies many different ethnicities as “Asian” that doesn’t really account for the strained relationships and bigotry that exists between different cultural and ethnic groups.Based on the location of the school district/board, it’s pretty clear that the lower and middle class immigrant families that are using the magnet school system as a means of upward mobility are mostly Chinese and Korean. If we hold Ms. Tanikawa to the same level of scrutiny that she subjected Mr. Maron to, it’s fair to say that her own biases could be informing her own position as well. I have noticed that some of the most vehement “Anti-racists” have employed this ideology to paradoxically advocate for ideas and policies that are, in the most basic and obvious way, racist.