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Yes, “don’t hire white men” is a much different policy than “please increase your funnel and hire more non white cis hereto men”. I would argue your previous em
by TeaDrunk 6y ago
Yes, “don’t hire white men” is a much different policy than “please increase your funnel and hire more non white cis hereto men”. I would argue your previous employer more or less just misses the point of these things.
- supergeek133 6y agoBut that's the whole issue. Policy versus practice. I'm usually hard pressed to find people who disagree with the thought of "we should try to hire people other than white men in a white men dominated profession". The issue comes when the unspoken (OP's "off the record") enforcement of this is willful hate towards those people.
- TeaDrunk 6y agoOf course there is an issue when people miss the point and do stupid shit. That doesn’t mean we should stop trying to improve representation in one of if not the most fast growing, wealth-providing career fields. I’m utterly baffled by this argument that a case of one company missing the point means IBM shouldn’t even try.
- supergeek133 6y agoIBM should try, everyone should try. But on the same side people just can't believe that the middle management and/or line level people responsible for some of these decisions are being malicious.
- TeaDrunk 6y agoIt's fine to call out malicious behavior I'm just confused by the argument that a stupid decision from company A means that company B shouldn't try to make a good decision. I'm even more confused by the concept that company A making a stupid decision means that every push to make a non-stupid decision must be suspected to be malicious.
- humanrebar 6y agoI disagree that the existing diversity in tech is best described as "white". Tech has a lot of diversity. It's that some groups, especially women, are still underrepresented.
- bluedevil2k 6y ago18% of computer science majors in the US are women. 20% of the computer science jobs are held by women. How is that underrepresenting women? * - https://www.computerscience.org/resources/women-in-computer-science/ https://www.computerscience.org/resources/women-in-computer-...
- Wolfenstein98k 6y agoThese people believe that men and women are identical (except for socialisation), and so any less than 51% representation is under-representation and evidence of sexism.
- asutekku 6y agoThere's zero reason why in computer science and tech women and men should have so drastically different ratios. Even back in the day programming was seen as a women's job.
- Wolfenstein98k 6y agoWhat ratio "should" they have then? What is the right ratio based on non-social causes, from which any deviation is evidence of bias or cultural sexism?
- bluedevil2k 6y agoZero reason?? More opportunity in other traditionally male jobs like doctors, nurse pay has increased, tech jobs require longer hours than they used to, the opening of various CS-parallel fields like UX/UI design that don't count as computer science, more economic freedom for top earning families to not require 2 incomes. There are literally dozens of reasons why women's interest in CS might decrease. * - https://www.payscale.com/compensation-today/2020/05/for-national-nurses-day-we-looked-at-nurses-wages-in-2020 https://www.payscale.com/compensation-today/2020/05/for-nati...
- raxxorrax 6y agoI do disagree with that. If white men happen to be there for some reason or another, it doesn't really matter. The likelihood that it is because of racism is minuscule.
- AlexTWithBeard 6y agoHow about "we should try to hire more asian men in black women dominated fields"?
- TeaDrunk 6y agoEquivalencies do exist. There’s a large push to have more men in fields such as nursing and child care.
- AlexTWithBeard 6y agoI'm not to say there's no such push at all, but by no means I would call it large.
- TeaDrunk 6y agoI mean I'm not even a nurse/not in childcare and I know about it, so it's certainly not fringe.
- AlexTWithBeard 6y agoSo. I've just googled "hire more men". In a private tab with a naive hope that google will get me out of whatever bubble it put me into. This is the first page: - why employers favor men - women outnumber men in the paid workforce - why employers favor men - women rehired less than men - if there is a real gender pay gap, why do firms hire men (I will spare the readers from remaining five links, but trust me, nothing groundbreaking was there) Again, this is not to say there's no push to hire men. It's just somewhere "in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard"."
- TeaDrunk 6y agoSo I also googled "hire more men" and I got on the first page 'should schools be trying to hire more men' and the first return was 'small companies hire more men to avoid maternity burden'. So I don't know how this proves anything either way.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- AlexTWithBeard 6y agoSorry, I'm not getting how "hire less white men" is different from "hire more non-white men"?
- apacheCamel 6y agoThe "Drink milk" campaign in my elementary school would be a good example. You should drink more milk, doesn't mean you should drink less water, or juice or whatever. It just means drink more milk.
- AlexTWithBeard 6y agoAssuming that you can drink an infinite amount of liquid, yes. But in practice "drink more milk" means "drink less soda".
- apacheCamel 6y ago>Assuming that you can drink an infinite amount of liquid, yes. You would also assume that people drink their "max quota" of drinks a day, thus being forced to eliminate something to make room. There's always room for milk my friend.
- Wolfenstein98k 6y agoThose things are identical in practice. The request is to hire non-whites and/or non-men. The clearest way to enforce it is just to specify exactly that - it achieves the stated aims with no cognitive dissonance.