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Well, there is the problem that the reduction in farmland utilization is reliant upon cheap artificial fertilizer, which is currently produced using natural gas

Well, there is the problem that the reduction in farmland utilization is reliant upon cheap artificial fertilizer, which is currently produced using natural gas as an energy/chemical source, which causes pollution.

dr_dshiv 6y ago
This life cycle analysis paper shows that 90% of co2 output from fertilizer is offset by increased biomass production. This is important nuance. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301479718311186 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030147971...
- henearkr 6y ago
  So it's a net non-zero CO2 footprint? That would rather be against fertilizer then.
  - dr_dshiv 6y ago
    Oh yeah, growing food is definitely one of the biggest sources of emissions! 26%. But many things besides fertilizer. Reviewed here. Poore, J., & Nemecek, T. (2018). Reducing food’s environmental impacts through producers and consumers. Science, 360(6392), 987-992.
    - henearkr 6y ago
      Thanks a lot for the reference! We are an animal species literally growing on fossil fuels.
      - dr_dshiv 6y ago
        Yes, that is correct. Really important to get the transition right. Then we just have to deal with creating a post scarcity political economy :)
  - Nasrudith 6y ago
    Not really, it depends upon the cost of not using fertilizer. The 10% emissions could be better in immediafe emissions again than having to farm N times more acres to get the same production.
    - henearkr 6y ago
      You could still have good production by using permaculture or other natural methods (or at least methods that are not energy-intensive).
ZeroGravitas 6y ago
2% of current greenhouse gas emissions are creating ammonia for fertilizer from natural gas. Two potential solutions are a) Create the ammonia from green hydrogen i.e. made from water with renewavle electricity b) Theres a process that turns natural gas (ideally from food waste) into hydrogen plus graphite do the carbon becomes a usable resource ratger than being vented as CO2.
- Cthulhu_ 6y ago
  c) use practices that were commonplace before artificial fertilizer was invented; fallowing, manure, compost, etc. Of course, manure and compost have their own set of CO2 (and methane) emission problems. At least it's carbon neutral I guess.
  - quixoticelixer- 6y ago
    And get much lower yields as a result
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
htnsao 6y ago
Pivot Bio [1] has genetically modified microbes to provide plants with the nitrogen they need without the excess greenhouse gases that synthetic alternatives produce.[2] [1] https://www.pivotbio.com/ https://www.pivotbio.com/ [2] https://www.gatesnotes.com/Energy/We-should-discuss-soil-as-much-as-coal https://www.gatesnotes.com/Energy/We-should-discuss-soil-as-...

dr_dshiv 6y ago

This life cycle analysis paper shows that 90% of co2 output from fertilizer is offset by increased biomass production. This is important nuance. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301479718311186 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030147971...

henearkr 6y ago
So it's a net non-zero CO2 footprint? That would rather be against fertilizer then.
- dr_dshiv 6y ago
  Oh yeah, growing food is definitely one of the biggest sources of emissions! 26%. But many things besides fertilizer. Reviewed here. Poore, J., & Nemecek, T. (2018). Reducing food’s environmental impacts through producers and consumers. Science, 360(6392), 987-992.
  - henearkr 6y ago
    Thanks a lot for the reference! We are an animal species literally growing on fossil fuels.
    - dr_dshiv 6y ago
      Yes, that is correct. Really important to get the transition right. Then we just have to deal with creating a post scarcity political economy :)
- Nasrudith 6y ago
  Not really, it depends upon the cost of not using fertilizer. The 10% emissions could be better in immediafe emissions again than having to farm N times more acres to get the same production.
  - henearkr 6y ago
    You could still have good production by using permaculture or other natural methods (or at least methods that are not energy-intensive).

ZeroGravitas 6y ago

2% of current greenhouse gas emissions are creating ammonia for fertilizer from natural gas. Two potential solutions are a) Create the ammonia from green hydrogen i.e. made from water with renewavle electricity b) Theres a process that turns natural gas (ideally from food waste) into hydrogen plus graphite do the carbon becomes a usable resource ratger than being vented as CO2.

Cthulhu_ 6y ago
c) use practices that were commonplace before artificial fertilizer was invented; fallowing, manure, compost, etc. Of course, manure and compost have their own set of CO2 (and methane) emission problems. At least it's carbon neutral I guess.
- quixoticelixer- 6y ago
  And get much lower yields as a result
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

htnsao 6y ago

Pivot Bio [1] has genetically modified microbes to provide plants with the nitrogen they need without the excess greenhouse gases that synthetic alternatives produce.[2] [1] https://www.pivotbio.com/ https://www.pivotbio.com/ [2] https://www.gatesnotes.com/Energy/We-should-discuss-soil-as-much-as-coal https://www.gatesnotes.com/Energy/We-should-discuss-soil-as-...