5 ms·

I don't really get the point of decentralised _storage_ solutions, where the stated goal is to compete with ≈ S3 [0]. S3 storage pricing, for most users is jus

I don't really get the point of decentralised _storage_ solutions, where the stated goal is to compete with ≈ S3 [0]. S3 storage pricing, for most users is just a rounding error compared to e.g egress or compute cost. And it has proven to be tremendously reliable, both in durability and access. No sane person would point a CDN against a Filecoin backed origin, right? For kinda-censorship resistant distribution of stuff like Wikileak dumps we already have torrents right now, where the seeders are aware of the content they spread. For uses where S3 is not competitive, like storage of my media rips, spinning rust at places like Hetzner exist, or Backblaze et. al for more casual backup uses. The only point I can see for decentralised "storage" of this kind is for ultra high durability, small data size, almost never read, almost some sort of "stakes". One could imagine something like storing contracts/land deeds, similar to Gwern's timestamping of URL's. The files should be small, the storage model optimised for maximal durability (every node store's almost everything?), and prices high enough to ensure durability. [0]: Just look at this PR page https://filecoin.io/store/ https://filecoin.io/store/ [1]: https://www.gwern.net/Timestamping https://www.gwern.net/Timestamping

macklemoreshair 6y ago
Agreed the #1 issue with file coin from day one has been the idea that the value of a coin is tied to anything at all. It puts a limit on the imaginative value because it’s tied to something as commoditized as bulk storage
thefounder 6y ago
Fuck S3 and all the lords gating the internet. I think that's what decentralised web wants to say and I'm pretty much on its side.
- Proven 6y ago
  You can run S3 at home and mirror data to encrypted container running the same in public cloud, genius.
Dylan16807 6y ago
I understand your overall point, but when it comes to > S3 storage pricing, for most users is just a rounding error compared to e.g egress or compute cost. And it has proven to be tremendously reliable, both in durability and access. It's not like you can separate S3 storage costs from egress costs, though. I wish I could use S3 for storage but pay for my own bandwidth. Even if you'll to go all the way to their network and plug a network cable in, well... They charge $7.40 a day for a gigabit port, and $54 a day for 10gig. That's on par with what many companies charge for transit to the actual internet, but fair enough. Oh, wait, I neglected the per-byte cost on top. The per byte cost that, for a mostly saturated port, is $210 or $2100 per day respectively. And that's the cheap option.
- filleokus 6y ago
  Yeah, it's true, it's not like egress is a completely separate thing from storage. But I guess it also depends a bit on your use case? E.g if you upload big datasets for heavy computation and then only download small results (≈ machine learning) or have a cheap(er) CDN in front of S3 with a favourable usage pattern, the storage and egress would be somewhat separate. Still, something like Filecoin is obviously not a resonable solution for the run of the mill "cheaper than S3 file hosting and network" problem? (I've been on the lookout for something like that, for personal use where I don't all those nines and other S3 benefits. The best thing yet seem to be Wasabi [0]) [0]: https://wasabi.com/cloud-storage-pricing/#three-info https://wasabi.com/cloud-storage-pricing/#three-info
tgbugs 6y ago
Thanks for the pointer to Gwern's writeup of timestamping. I have mentioned the idea on a number of occasions as a reasonable way to guard against investigator misconduct around tampering with data files and now have an excellent review article to point to!

macklemoreshair 6y ago

Agreed the #1 issue with file coin from day one has been the idea that the value of a coin is tied to anything at all. It puts a limit on the imaginative value because it’s tied to something as commoditized as bulk storage

thefounder 6y ago

Fuck S3 and all the lords gating the internet. I think that's what decentralised web wants to say and I'm pretty much on its side.

Proven 6y ago
You can run S3 at home and mirror data to encrypted container running the same in public cloud, genius.

Dylan16807 6y ago

I understand your overall point, but when it comes to > S3 storage pricing, for most users is just a rounding error compared to e.g egress or compute cost. And it has proven to be tremendously reliable, both in durability and access. It's not like you can separate S3 storage costs from egress costs, though. I wish I could use S3 for storage but pay for my own bandwidth. Even if you'll to go all the way to their network and plug a network cable in, well... They charge $7.40 a day for a gigabit port, and $54 a day for 10gig. That's on par with what many companies charge for transit to the actual internet, but fair enough. Oh, wait, I neglected the per-byte cost on top. The per byte cost that, for a mostly saturated port, is $210 or $2100 per day respectively. And that's the cheap option.

filleokus 6y ago
Yeah, it's true, it's not like egress is a completely separate thing from storage. But I guess it also depends a bit on your use case? E.g if you upload big datasets for heavy computation and then only download small results (≈ machine learning) or have a cheap(er) CDN in front of S3 with a favourable usage pattern, the storage and egress would be somewhat separate. Still, something like Filecoin is obviously not a resonable solution for the run of the mill "cheaper than S3 file hosting and network" problem? (I've been on the lookout for something like that, for personal use where I don't all those nines and other S3 benefits. The best thing yet seem to be Wasabi [0]) [0]: https://wasabi.com/cloud-storage-pricing/#three-info https://wasabi.com/cloud-storage-pricing/#three-info

tgbugs 6y ago

Thanks for the pointer to Gwern's writeup of timestamping. I have mentioned the idea on a number of occasions as a reasonable way to guard against investigator misconduct around tampering with data files and now have an excellent review article to point to!