15 ms·

Kids can't learn all day long in a classroom. I don't know why we expect them to be able to do it remotely. School has always been 1/3 learning 2/3 baby sitting

Kids can't learn all day long in a classroom. I don't know why we expect them to be able to do it remotely. School has always been 1/3 learning 2/3 baby sitting. When my parents were kids, they only went to kindergarten for half a day.

floren 6y ago
> When my parents were kids, they only went to kindergarten for half a day. Wait, hang on, is kindergarten all-day now? I was in kindergarten in... 1992, and it was half a day.
- edgyquant 6y ago
  Yes I was born in 92 and it was all day when I went.
- inerte 6y ago
  My son's school changed to full day this year (Los Gatos, CA area) - but I think all the other schools in the district were full day already. When he did Kindergarten few years ago, it was for half a day.
- jdofaz 6y ago
  Arizona does not fund full day kindergarten
- lhorie 6y ago
  It's half day in SF (source: daughter is in lafayette). Private pre-K can be full day (it's basically glorified daycare).
- michaelbuckbee 6y ago
  This isn't to the actual study (which I'm having trouble finding), but to the NEA's policy brief on all day kindergarten. https://www.nea.org/assets/docs/18001_Full-Day_Kindergarten_Policy_Brief-final.pdf https://www.nea.org/assets/docs/18001_Full-Day_Kindergarten_... The TL;DR being that all day Kindergarten is strongly associated with better educational outcomes. As a result, many districts are moving towards full day.
- grahamburger 6y ago
  My kid's Kindergarten is still half day. As far as I know half-day kindergarten is still the standard in my state (Utah.)
- vonmoltke 6y ago
  I had "all-day" (0800 - 1400, same as the elementary grades) kindergarten in Florida in 1985.
- redshirtrob 6y ago
  I had all day kindergarten in '83. First half was in English, and the second half was in French. And no, this was not a private school. This was Cincinnati Public.
  - ardit33 6y ago
    I have a curious question, can you speak/do you know French now?
    - redshirtrob 6y ago
      Sadly no. But that's because we moved from the school district the following summer. It's a bit of a sore point for me. I have no doubt if I'd stayed there (K-6), I would have been close to fluent. After lunch was a full immersion in French. My teacher was a native speaker from Belgium. I remember having mastered counting in French, which is quite interesting considering most kindergarteners probably have not mastered counting in English. As for an anecdote, I had one friend who stayed there through 4th grade. He still lists French as a language on LinkedIn. [Edit] By master counting I mean having mastered the language algorithm, so to speak. Once you can count to 100, it's pretty easy to get to 200, or all the way to 999 with the knowledge at hand. It's not until one thousand that you need a new word. And, IIRC, French has a _very_ mechanical counting mechanism whereby it was even simpler. Perhaps a native speaker can weigh in here?
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - vtbassmatt 6y ago
        Small nitpick: Kindergarteners are expected to count to 100. At least, that's the case in my county (Wake) in a state not known for K-12 excellence (North Carolina).
        redshirtrob 6y ago
        Ok, I edited my comment to clarify. I did not mean count to 100 as mastering counting. I meant count _almost_ arbitrarily high. And small world. My wife hails from Forsyth county.
- Shared404 6y ago
  All day in Texas.
- asldkjaslkdj 6y ago
  Some places are sending 3-4 year olds to all day pre-k now too. We're working too much and public schools have become free day care systems.
  - gedy 6y ago
    I'm disappointed that some people associate not working full time and raising/teaching your children as somehow oppressive. Having to commute and farting in an office chair all day seems more oppressive to me.
  - mumblemumble 6y ago
    Single-income family that sent a kid to all-day pre-k reporting in. We offered our kid the choice, and they enthusiastically opted for the all-day option. I don't think it was really a hard choice, from their perspective. "Do you want to spend 3 hours having fun with friends every day, or 6 hours?" That's right up there with, "Would you rather have one cookie or two cookies?"
- bradly 6y ago
  In San Diego, it is full day for kindergarten, with many younger kids attending full day tk (transitional kindergarten).
- jedberg 6y ago
  It depends on the school. Even within a district some schools will be all day and some 1/2 day. There is no law that mandates how long kinder has to be so it's up to the schools.
- kazinator 6y ago
  If you were in kindergarten in 1992, that makes you just about old enough to be the parent of some HackerNews kid who now posts that his or her parents went to kindergarten for half a day.
- kelnos 6y ago
  Interesting. I went to kindergarten in 1986 or so, and it was all day (US, New Jersey).
- djsumdog 6y ago
  I was in primary school in the 80s and it was like .. 8am to 2:30 I think? ... pretty much stayed that way until high school, which I think let out at 3:30 or 4 ... mostly because we all rode the same buses and they had to go to each school to load up.
- neltnerb 6y ago
  In Indiana at least it was semi-optional in '88 and I think they just had a morning class and an afternoon class to double the number of kids who got to go. But I mean, I'm pretty sure they went full-day as soon as it was possible. It's free childcare and way more households now are dual income.
nradov 6y ago
Kindergarten in the US became far more academically focused after the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001, and the adoption of Common Core curriculum. Most schools also changed the age cutoff date for kindergarten so the average student is now slightly older.
- nordsieck 6y ago
  > Kindergarten in the US became far more academically focused after the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001, and the adoption of Common Core curriculum. My understanding is that this is at least driven in part by academia, who have gradually advocated earlier and earlier interventions for lower performing students.
- bonoboTP 6y ago
  Sounds really crazy to me, here in Hungary most kids start structured classes at 6 or 7 years old. Before that it's just playing outside, singing, listening to fairy tales, going to hiking trips, to the zoo etc. This tight grip on American kids looks extremely stressful and harmful (helicopter/bubble wrap parenting, structuring every waking hour with classes and extracurriculars, driving them everywhere, never leaving them to themselves etc).
  - actfrench 6y ago
    Same with Finland. https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/10/the-joyful-illiterate-kindergartners-of-finland/408325/ https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/10/the-jo... Most research shows that academic study vs play in preschool makes little difference in how kids turn out later in life. And that play might even be better. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/20/well/family/let-kids-play.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/20/well/family/let-kids-play... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/29/well/family/taking-playtime-seriously.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/29/well/family/taking-playti...
  - grugagag 6y ago
    Of course it is harmful. And that together with standardized tests, textbooks stuffed with information that neither the editors fully read is a recipe for a bad outcome. And it doesn't end there, professors are bombarded with so much bureaucratic crap that many of them who would otherwise put up with really bad pay just to be able to teach kids simply give up, but that's just a tangent here. When kids play they learn a whole lot more about the world, social interactions, their bodies and what not. Kids can learn some things quite early and it is not a bad idea to teach them early either a second language or to read early or some other useful skills. But the problem is this has been exaggerated greatly and way too much is pushed on them.
whateveracct 6y ago
Turns out a lot of education is just child care. And now parents are having to see it firsthand instead of offloading it to a professional.
- sjg007 6y ago
  It's not fair to call it "just child care".. teachers are professionals who provide both care and education.
kraig911 6y ago
Got a kid in kinder to this very day it's only 3 hours...
miles 6y ago
> Kids can't learn all day long in a classroom John Taylor Gatto is an award-winning public school teacher who was honest and brave enough to concur with you: The Six-Lesson Schoolteacher https://www.cantrip.org/gatto.html https://www.cantrip.org/gatto.html
- zwirbl 6y ago
  > School is like starting life with a 12-year jail sentence in which bad habits are the only curriculum truly learned. I teach school and win awards doing it. I should know Sounds like it is more about learning to keep your head down and this award winning teacher is very aware of that
hinkley 6y ago
Grade schools usually have recess too. (for the life of me, I can't recall what we did on rainy days)
- learc83 6y ago
  We had recess when i was a kid too. It lasted for 15 minutes out of a nearly 8 hour day.
JackMorgan 6y ago
As a former middle school teacher, I can concur that most of the day is "educational themed day care" primarily about teaching kids to submit to authority and keep their heads down. Actual learning can be accomplished with far greater value by having mostly quiet reading sessions interspersed with outdoor play. Even fiction reading is a huge benefit, as most of our "reading" classes are all about talking about reading, not actually practicing it, so most students only improve their BS skills.

floren 6y ago

> When my parents were kids, they only went to kindergarten for half a day. Wait, hang on, is kindergarten all-day now? I was in kindergarten in... 1992, and it was half a day.

edgyquant 6y ago
Yes I was born in 92 and it was all day when I went.
inerte 6y ago
My son's school changed to full day this year (Los Gatos, CA area) - but I think all the other schools in the district were full day already. When he did Kindergarten few years ago, it was for half a day.
jdofaz 6y ago
Arizona does not fund full day kindergarten
lhorie 6y ago
It's half day in SF (source: daughter is in lafayette). Private pre-K can be full day (it's basically glorified daycare).
michaelbuckbee 6y ago
This isn't to the actual study (which I'm having trouble finding), but to the NEA's policy brief on all day kindergarten. https://www.nea.org/assets/docs/18001_Full-Day_Kindergarten_Policy_Brief-final.pdf https://www.nea.org/assets/docs/18001_Full-Day_Kindergarten_... The TL;DR being that all day Kindergarten is strongly associated with better educational outcomes. As a result, many districts are moving towards full day.
grahamburger 6y ago
My kid's Kindergarten is still half day. As far as I know half-day kindergarten is still the standard in my state (Utah.)
vonmoltke 6y ago
I had "all-day" (0800 - 1400, same as the elementary grades) kindergarten in Florida in 1985.
redshirtrob 6y ago
I had all day kindergarten in '83. First half was in English, and the second half was in French. And no, this was not a private school. This was Cincinnati Public.
- ardit33 6y ago
  I have a curious question, can you speak/do you know French now?
  - redshirtrob 6y ago
    Sadly no. But that's because we moved from the school district the following summer. It's a bit of a sore point for me. I have no doubt if I'd stayed there (K-6), I would have been close to fluent. After lunch was a full immersion in French. My teacher was a native speaker from Belgium. I remember having mastered counting in French, which is quite interesting considering most kindergarteners probably have not mastered counting in English. As for an anecdote, I had one friend who stayed there through 4th grade. He still lists French as a language on LinkedIn. [Edit] By master counting I mean having mastered the language algorithm, so to speak. Once you can count to 100, it's pretty easy to get to 200, or all the way to 999 with the knowledge at hand. It's not until one thousand that you need a new word. And, IIRC, French has a _very_ mechanical counting mechanism whereby it was even simpler. Perhaps a native speaker can weigh in here?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - vtbassmatt 6y ago
      Small nitpick: Kindergarteners are expected to count to 100. At least, that's the case in my county (Wake) in a state not known for K-12 excellence (North Carolina).
      - redshirtrob 6y ago
        Ok, I edited my comment to clarify. I did not mean count to 100 as mastering counting. I meant count _almost_ arbitrarily high. And small world. My wife hails from Forsyth county.
Shared404 6y ago
All day in Texas.
asldkjaslkdj 6y ago
Some places are sending 3-4 year olds to all day pre-k now too. We're working too much and public schools have become free day care systems.
- gedy 6y ago
  I'm disappointed that some people associate not working full time and raising/teaching your children as somehow oppressive. Having to commute and farting in an office chair all day seems more oppressive to me.
- mumblemumble 6y ago
  Single-income family that sent a kid to all-day pre-k reporting in. We offered our kid the choice, and they enthusiastically opted for the all-day option. I don't think it was really a hard choice, from their perspective. "Do you want to spend 3 hours having fun with friends every day, or 6 hours?" That's right up there with, "Would you rather have one cookie or two cookies?"
bradly 6y ago
In San Diego, it is full day for kindergarten, with many younger kids attending full day tk (transitional kindergarten).
jedberg 6y ago
It depends on the school. Even within a district some schools will be all day and some 1/2 day. There is no law that mandates how long kinder has to be so it's up to the schools.
kazinator 6y ago
If you were in kindergarten in 1992, that makes you just about old enough to be the parent of some HackerNews kid who now posts that his or her parents went to kindergarten for half a day.
kelnos 6y ago
Interesting. I went to kindergarten in 1986 or so, and it was all day (US, New Jersey).
djsumdog 6y ago
I was in primary school in the 80s and it was like .. 8am to 2:30 I think? ... pretty much stayed that way until high school, which I think let out at 3:30 or 4 ... mostly because we all rode the same buses and they had to go to each school to load up.
neltnerb 6y ago
In Indiana at least it was semi-optional in '88 and I think they just had a morning class and an afternoon class to double the number of kids who got to go. But I mean, I'm pretty sure they went full-day as soon as it was possible. It's free childcare and way more households now are dual income.

nradov 6y ago

Kindergarten in the US became far more academically focused after the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001, and the adoption of Common Core curriculum. Most schools also changed the age cutoff date for kindergarten so the average student is now slightly older.

nordsieck 6y ago
> Kindergarten in the US became far more academically focused after the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001, and the adoption of Common Core curriculum. My understanding is that this is at least driven in part by academia, who have gradually advocated earlier and earlier interventions for lower performing students.
bonoboTP 6y ago
Sounds really crazy to me, here in Hungary most kids start structured classes at 6 or 7 years old. Before that it's just playing outside, singing, listening to fairy tales, going to hiking trips, to the zoo etc. This tight grip on American kids looks extremely stressful and harmful (helicopter/bubble wrap parenting, structuring every waking hour with classes and extracurriculars, driving them everywhere, never leaving them to themselves etc).
- actfrench 6y ago
  Same with Finland. https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/10/the-joyful-illiterate-kindergartners-of-finland/408325/ https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/10/the-jo... Most research shows that academic study vs play in preschool makes little difference in how kids turn out later in life. And that play might even be better. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/20/well/family/let-kids-play.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/20/well/family/let-kids-play... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/29/well/family/taking-playtime-seriously.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/29/well/family/taking-playti...
- grugagag 6y ago
  Of course it is harmful. And that together with standardized tests, textbooks stuffed with information that neither the editors fully read is a recipe for a bad outcome. And it doesn't end there, professors are bombarded with so much bureaucratic crap that many of them who would otherwise put up with really bad pay just to be able to teach kids simply give up, but that's just a tangent here. When kids play they learn a whole lot more about the world, social interactions, their bodies and what not. Kids can learn some things quite early and it is not a bad idea to teach them early either a second language or to read early or some other useful skills. But the problem is this has been exaggerated greatly and way too much is pushed on them.

whateveracct 6y ago

Turns out a lot of education is just child care. And now parents are having to see it firsthand instead of offloading it to a professional.

sjg007 6y ago
It's not fair to call it "just child care".. teachers are professionals who provide both care and education.

kraig911 6y ago

Got a kid in kinder to this very day it's only 3 hours...

miles 6y ago

> Kids can't learn all day long in a classroom John Taylor Gatto is an award-winning public school teacher who was honest and brave enough to concur with you: The Six-Lesson Schoolteacher https://www.cantrip.org/gatto.html https://www.cantrip.org/gatto.html

zwirbl 6y ago
> School is like starting life with a 12-year jail sentence in which bad habits are the only curriculum truly learned. I teach school and win awards doing it. I should know Sounds like it is more about learning to keep your head down and this award winning teacher is very aware of that

hinkley 6y ago

Grade schools usually have recess too. (for the life of me, I can't recall what we did on rainy days)

learc83 6y ago
We had recess when i was a kid too. It lasted for 15 minutes out of a nearly 8 hour day.

JackMorgan 6y ago

As a former middle school teacher, I can concur that most of the day is "educational themed day care" primarily about teaching kids to submit to authority and keep their heads down. Actual learning can be accomplished with far greater value by having mostly quiet reading sessions interspersed with outdoor play. Even fiction reading is a huge benefit, as most of our "reading" classes are all about talking about reading, not actually practicing it, so most students only improve their BS skills.