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And you are the one not listening. In EVERY other country you can buy masks, and they were strongly encouraged, that prevented YOU from getting sick. South Ko

And you are the one not listening. In EVERY other country you can buy masks, and they were strongly encouraged, that prevented YOU from getting sick. South Koreas KF94 masks come to mind, very good coverage and fit (3 parts including one under chin). And despite the lies basically posted by you and plenty of others including health authorities (don't wear masks if you are "healthy", masks can't protect you from covid) masks CAN be used to protect you from infection, and that is a MUCH more powerful motivator for folks to wear them, and can also be targeted to those who are at higher risk. We need to get a grip of basic facts. Masks help reduce transmission and if reasonably designed (look overseas) infection. Why else do doctors in hospitals wear N95 masks? To avoid getting sick. I am somewhat higher risk. I wear and N95 under a surgical mask. This reduces my risk of getting covid. The other issue you miss is that there really has not been good evidence of outdoor transmission, and the claims of covid living on outdoor surfaces for 7 days also are suspect. So when folks say - no one go to the beach, it's a bit of an eye roll. If covid were THAT infectious (huge open ocean airflow hitting the beach, blasting sun) then we'd all have it already just from going to the grocery store. I think health professionals lost a megaton of credibility in claiming masks don't help, to not wear masks, or that masks can only help reduce transmission not infection. Other countries went all out on masks - with great results. They are reaping the rewards of these basic lies. Now I'm told going to beach on a sunny breezy day is high risk. I'm listening, show me the outbreak, show me the data that says this is high risk.

ceejayoz 6y ago
N95s are still quite difficult to find here in the US. Cloth and non-medical disposable masks are not considered protective (although it's likely they block some inbound particles, and there's evidence they may thus result in a gentler illness on average) but do reduce transmission. You're right that there are multiple kinds of masks; in the US, it's kinda pointless to talk about N95s. No one's wearing them, in part because they're hard to get, and in part because our anti-maskers threw enough of a fit about fairly comfortable ones. > The other issue you miss is that there really has not been good evidence of outdoor transmission, and the claims of covid living on outdoor surfaces for 7 days also are suspect. You'll actually find me elsewhere on this thread noting that outdoors tends to be safe, so I'm not sure what statement of mine you're arguing with here.
- brlewis 6y ago
  > Cloth and non-medical disposable masks are not considered protective > anti-maskers threw enough of a fit about fairly comfortable ones How's this for a solution? Make masks with inhalation valves. You can find masks for dusty work with exhalation valves. It wouldn't be too big a change to reverse those valves. The lost protection against inbound particles isn't much, and the gain would be near elimination of the inherent discomfort of re-breathing CO2. I'm not an anti-masker, but I notice I'm a lot more comfortable with my mask off.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    > The lost protection against inbound particles isn't much... Why would it not be impacted? You'd be breathing in unfiltered air, and that's the main method of transmission. > the gain would be near elimination of the inherent discomfort of re-breathing CO2 Which isn't really the comfort problem with N95s; they're just tight and hot.
    - brlewis 6y ago
      > The lost protection against inbound particles isn't much... Why would it not be impacted? You'd be breathing in unfiltered air, and that's the main method of transmission. It would be impacted. You'd lose 100% of that benefit. But 100% is still not much.
      - VectorLock 6y ago
        >You'd lose 100% of that benefit. But 100% is still not much. What would even be the point then? That'd just be reduced to obstinate anti-maskers wearing lace 'masks.'
        jlokier 6y ago
        The GPP describes an inhalation value. The mask still protects other people from transmission by you. Anti-maskers wearing lace 'masks' does not protect other people. They are completely different, and that is the main point of mask wearing for the general public - to protect each other by reducing the chance of ourselves transmitting it if we have it.
kbenson 6y ago
> I think health professionals lost a megaton of credibility in claiming masks don't help, to not wear masks, or that masks can only help reduce transmission not infection. Other countries went all out on masks - with great results. I think for the most part health professionals answered specific questions about specific types of situations or types of transmission, and the media runs with overly broad statements when are then pushed/rejected by different parties. There are many inputs that go into something as simple as a recommendation of "should the general public wear masks", including "are there enough masks for health professionals currently", "what's the current infection rates", "how far has it spread", "what type of masks". Additionally the answer might be different at different times in the past depending on whether talking about a locality with an outbreak or the whole nation. Expecting the answer as to whether wearing a mask to help to not change over time is as silly as expecting it to not change pre-COVID-19 start and after it. The bottom line is that the inputs that influence the recommendation are fluid and change over time, so we should expect the recommendation to change over time, and the only reason people aren't getting that is because it's in the best interest of different groups to position it otherwise so they can use it to score points (and while the obvious groups in question are political, they aren't limited to one side of the spectrum, this is a common tactic used across the board which is particularly troublesome when it attacks the credibility of the people we trust to tell us how to protect ourselves).
- renewiltord 6y ago
  > I think for the most part health professionals answered specific questions about specific types of situations or types of transmission, and the media runs with overly broad statements when are then pushed/rejected by different parties. The US Surgeon General https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/1233725785283932160 https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/12337257852839321... > Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS! They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk! http://bit.ly/37Ay6Cm http://bit.ly/37Ay6Cm Highlighting > They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus,
  - 6y ago
strogonoff 6y ago
Such KF94 masks are non-washable, and must be handled with much care since you will be breathing whatever particles get on it from your hands, hair and environment. Accidental mask contamination is an issue and really negates the whole idea of masks for self-protection, so please be careful. Much less pathogen is needed to get you sick if it is stuck to something covering your breathing pathways on every breath.
jmartinpetersen 6y ago
Denmark didn't go all out on masks initially but curbed the pandemic by socially distancing and shutting down early. Masks are currently not required in public transport across the country, but that changes this Saturday. Up until last week I can count on one hand how many people I have seen wearing masks. Now that people seem to have forgotten what social distancing means, masks are a useful tool. But if everyone just keeps their distance, they're not a must have.
skocznymroczny 6y ago
> Why else do doctors in hospitals wear N95 masks? To avoid getting sick. I always thought they are meant to protect the patient from doctor coughing directly into an open surgery wound.
- intotheabyss 6y ago
  That's a surgical mask. N95's protect the wearer from most particles (the 95th percentile in size).
  - djhn 6y ago
    The "95" in N95 refers to it filtering 95% of all particles in general, and particles with a diameter of 2.5 micrometers specifically. The relationship between particle size and the ease of filtering them is U-shaped, not linear, with the dip at around 2.5 micrometers being the bottom of the trough.
    - intotheabyss 6y ago
      Oh thanks. I thought it was linear.
Aeolun 6y ago
Your surgical mask reduces your risk of getting covid by about 30%. Your N95 mask reduces your risk of getting covid by about 99.9%. Why even wear a surgical mask? Anyway, I think the issue with going to the beach isn’t the part where you play in the open air on the beach. It’s where a bunch of people go to a beach house and drink a bunch of beer in a small room.
- andruby 6y ago
  > Why even wear a surgical mask? To prevent others from getting covid from _you_ [0] N95 masks are more expensive, take more effort (and training?) to use correctly and have limited reusability IIRC. As a society, it's more efficient if everyone wears surgical masks, because that means every infected person is also wearing one, even those that don't know (yet) that they are covid positive. So in my opinion, it's a good thing if countries force everyone to wear them. Good surgical masks are much nicer to breath in then fabric ones. [0] https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/11/66/67/19361245/3/850x0.jpg https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/11/66/67/19361245/3/850x0.jpg
  - Aeolun 6y ago
    Ah, I agree. I was referring to the the fact that OP said: > I wear and N95 under a surgical mask. They’re wearing both a N95 and surgical mask at the same time.
TeaDrunk 6y ago
> In EVERY other country you can buy masks, and they were strongly encouraged, that prevented YOU from getting sick. What? I’m East Asian from a country known for mask wearing and this is definitely not how mask wearing is treated. It’s definitely to protect other people from you!

ceejayoz 6y ago

N95s are still quite difficult to find here in the US. Cloth and non-medical disposable masks are not considered protective (although it's likely they block some inbound particles, and there's evidence they may thus result in a gentler illness on average) but do reduce transmission. You're right that there are multiple kinds of masks; in the US, it's kinda pointless to talk about N95s. No one's wearing them, in part because they're hard to get, and in part because our anti-maskers threw enough of a fit about fairly comfortable ones. > The other issue you miss is that there really has not been good evidence of outdoor transmission, and the claims of covid living on outdoor surfaces for 7 days also are suspect. You'll actually find me elsewhere on this thread noting that outdoors tends to be safe, so I'm not sure what statement of mine you're arguing with here.

brlewis 6y ago
> Cloth and non-medical disposable masks are not considered protective > anti-maskers threw enough of a fit about fairly comfortable ones How's this for a solution? Make masks with inhalation valves. You can find masks for dusty work with exhalation valves. It wouldn't be too big a change to reverse those valves. The lost protection against inbound particles isn't much, and the gain would be near elimination of the inherent discomfort of re-breathing CO2. I'm not an anti-masker, but I notice I'm a lot more comfortable with my mask off.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  > The lost protection against inbound particles isn't much... Why would it not be impacted? You'd be breathing in unfiltered air, and that's the main method of transmission. > the gain would be near elimination of the inherent discomfort of re-breathing CO2 Which isn't really the comfort problem with N95s; they're just tight and hot.
  - brlewis 6y ago
    > The lost protection against inbound particles isn't much... Why would it not be impacted? You'd be breathing in unfiltered air, and that's the main method of transmission. It would be impacted. You'd lose 100% of that benefit. But 100% is still not much.
    - VectorLock 6y ago
      >You'd lose 100% of that benefit. But 100% is still not much. What would even be the point then? That'd just be reduced to obstinate anti-maskers wearing lace 'masks.'
      - jlokier 6y ago
        The GPP describes an inhalation value. The mask still protects other people from transmission by you. Anti-maskers wearing lace 'masks' does not protect other people. They are completely different, and that is the main point of mask wearing for the general public - to protect each other by reducing the chance of ourselves transmitting it if we have it.

kbenson 6y ago

> I think health professionals lost a megaton of credibility in claiming masks don't help, to not wear masks, or that masks can only help reduce transmission not infection. Other countries went all out on masks - with great results. I think for the most part health professionals answered specific questions about specific types of situations or types of transmission, and the media runs with overly broad statements when are then pushed/rejected by different parties. There are many inputs that go into something as simple as a recommendation of "should the general public wear masks", including "are there enough masks for health professionals currently", "what's the current infection rates", "how far has it spread", "what type of masks". Additionally the answer might be different at different times in the past depending on whether talking about a locality with an outbreak or the whole nation. Expecting the answer as to whether wearing a mask to help to not change over time is as silly as expecting it to not change pre-COVID-19 start and after it. The bottom line is that the inputs that influence the recommendation are fluid and change over time, so we should expect the recommendation to change over time, and the only reason people aren't getting that is because it's in the best interest of different groups to position it otherwise so they can use it to score points (and while the obvious groups in question are political, they aren't limited to one side of the spectrum, this is a common tactic used across the board which is particularly troublesome when it attacks the credibility of the people we trust to tell us how to protect ourselves).

renewiltord 6y ago
> I think for the most part health professionals answered specific questions about specific types of situations or types of transmission, and the media runs with overly broad statements when are then pushed/rejected by different parties. The US Surgeon General https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/1233725785283932160 https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/12337257852839321... > Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS! They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk! http://bit.ly/37Ay6Cm http://bit.ly/37Ay6Cm Highlighting > They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus,
- 6y ago

strogonoff 6y ago

Such KF94 masks are non-washable, and must be handled with much care since you will be breathing whatever particles get on it from your hands, hair and environment. Accidental mask contamination is an issue and really negates the whole idea of masks for self-protection, so please be careful. Much less pathogen is needed to get you sick if it is stuck to something covering your breathing pathways on every breath.

jmartinpetersen 6y ago

Denmark didn't go all out on masks initially but curbed the pandemic by socially distancing and shutting down early. Masks are currently not required in public transport across the country, but that changes this Saturday. Up until last week I can count on one hand how many people I have seen wearing masks. Now that people seem to have forgotten what social distancing means, masks are a useful tool. But if everyone just keeps their distance, they're not a must have.

skocznymroczny 6y ago

> Why else do doctors in hospitals wear N95 masks? To avoid getting sick. I always thought they are meant to protect the patient from doctor coughing directly into an open surgery wound.

intotheabyss 6y ago
That's a surgical mask. N95's protect the wearer from most particles (the 95th percentile in size).
- djhn 6y ago
  The "95" in N95 refers to it filtering 95% of all particles in general, and particles with a diameter of 2.5 micrometers specifically. The relationship between particle size and the ease of filtering them is U-shaped, not linear, with the dip at around 2.5 micrometers being the bottom of the trough.
  - intotheabyss 6y ago
    Oh thanks. I thought it was linear.

Aeolun 6y ago

Your surgical mask reduces your risk of getting covid by about 30%. Your N95 mask reduces your risk of getting covid by about 99.9%. Why even wear a surgical mask? Anyway, I think the issue with going to the beach isn’t the part where you play in the open air on the beach. It’s where a bunch of people go to a beach house and drink a bunch of beer in a small room.

andruby 6y ago
> Why even wear a surgical mask? To prevent others from getting covid from _you_ [0] N95 masks are more expensive, take more effort (and training?) to use correctly and have limited reusability IIRC. As a society, it's more efficient if everyone wears surgical masks, because that means every infected person is also wearing one, even those that don't know (yet) that they are covid positive. So in my opinion, it's a good thing if countries force everyone to wear them. Good surgical masks are much nicer to breath in then fabric ones. [0] https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/11/66/67/19361245/3/850x0.jpg https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/11/66/67/19361245/3/850x0.jpg
- Aeolun 6y ago
  Ah, I agree. I was referring to the the fact that OP said: > I wear and N95 under a surgical mask. They’re wearing both a N95 and surgical mask at the same time.

TeaDrunk 6y ago

> In EVERY other country you can buy masks, and they were strongly encouraged, that prevented YOU from getting sick. What? I’m East Asian from a country known for mask wearing and this is definitely not how mask wearing is treated. It’s definitely to protect other people from you!