6 ms·

They used the N-word because the family of the victim asked them to report fully what happened. There are far better reasons to boycott the BBC than that.

tomcam 6y ago
I don't like the BBC because of its political slant, but in this case I feel their reporting it verbatim accurately absolutely helps the cause against racism. That's my problem with suppressing hate speech. Best way to get rid of it is to keep the people who deploy it out in the open, where the free market of ideas will dispatch with them efficiently. It's how someone like Daryl Davis can literally change the world: https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544861933/how-one-man-convinced-200-ku-klux-klan-members-to-give-up-their-robes https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544861933/how-one-man-convinc...
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  > I don't like the BBC because of its political slant Do you think it’s slanted left or right? Half think it’s extreme left wing, half think it’s extreme right wing. Or do you think it’s slanted along some other axis?
- peteretep 6y ago
  > I don't like the BBC because of its political slant The best thing about the BBC is that people on both the right and the left think it has a political slant against them
  - edgyquant 6y ago
    Centrist institutions tend to have that problem
    - peteretep 6y ago
      Imagine thinking the political center was a bad place to be
      - gatlin 6y ago
        In what ways is it a good place to be?
        peteretep 6y ago
        Take a list of countries in the world that have the best HDI rankings, press freedom rankings, universal healthcare and so on. Almost all are run by parties who are described primarily as being center-right or center-left.
        ideamotor 6y ago
        Thank you. Do these people not realize that centrist basically means stable and successful? Probably just sad sacks who want things to go sour. And I want to be clear, in the U.S. Dems are a center-left party and GOP is a (increasingly) far-right party. You can see this objectively by the percent of the time each member flips. Approx. around 80% GOP never flips versus only 20% Dems.
        secondcoming 6y ago
        Really. Everything I've read and heard about US politics would seems to suggest that the Dems are being pulled increasingly towards the extreme left.
        peteretep 6y ago
        > Everything I've read and heard about US politics would seems to suggest that the Dems are being pulled increasingly towards the extreme left We are either reading very different news, or your use of “extreme left” is highly out of sync with anything approaching common usage. Wake me me up when they start nationalising pensions
  - MagnumOpus 6y ago
    Sadly they are both right. BBC news and political reporting (the thing politicians care about) have a massive bias towards the current UK government - for the last 5+ years that means a pro-austerity xenophobic anti-EU bent. If they veer from that they get their funding cut. BBC radio and drama/comedy/kids' TV studio content is generally very "politically correct" left-wing as the vast majority of employees in these industries are left wing. The stereotype of the BBC show with exactly one gay, one black and one disabled kid among its three-strong casts is not far off the mark...
- nitrogen 6y ago
  It's how someone like Daryl Davis can literally change the world I'd forgotten about this story, but it's a really good one. Sometimes we forget our humanity. If you want to convince people, don't browbeat them or belittle them. Do your homework, understand what they believe, and just generally show you're a good person. We need a new narrative to bubble up through the media that empowers voices of reason and calm, not voices that divide.
- tekromancr 6y ago
  I don't think that's the case. Every single instance of genocide in the last 150 years or so started as just some folks expressing a relatively fringe ideology, with plenty of others debating against it vigorously. For whatever reason, that ideology caught on, and then the mass murders start. People, as a general group, don't evaluate their beliefs in a rational manner. They are biased in favor of the first things they heard; and whatever is most palatable given their emotions and things they already believe. It's how you can get into a situation where massive numbers of people believe some combination of the ideas earth is 6000 years old and also flat and also that 5G causes covid and also covid was a hoax and face masks are just a mkultra trauma psyop run by the pedophile satanic illuminati cabal run by Hillary Clinton and George Soros. If people can hold all that in their heads, and not believe any evidence to the contrary; then the idea of suppressing the notions that Black folks/Jewish folks/Muslims/migrants/whatever are the root of society's problems and we should do violence to them starts to make a lot of sense. I also think that the idea that markets, particularly abstract ones, such as the "free market of ideas" are capable of producing long-term positive outcomes for most participants is, at best, without evidence and at worst pure fallacious thinking.
  - raxxorrax 6y ago
    I think it was a charismatic figure convincing others that they are victims in most cases. That is not the whole truth of course, but far more accurate than saying the freedom of expression hurts minorities and leads to genocide. That is some class-A bullshit and revisionist of history. On the contrary, restricting people from stating their opinion reinforces their believe that the world is conspiring against them. You need to have some trust issue to come up with ideas like that. Flat earthers are only a problem to themselves so I don't understand your fascination with that group. The free market of ideas has produced the most free societies. Not just in history, it can be also be seen today. > They are biased That is true for nobody or everybody. In both cases it wouldn't matter, would it?
    - jfengel 6y ago
      Flat earthers may only be a problem of themselves, but climate denialists, anti-vaxxers, and creationists are not. (Creationists are constantly fighting to have theology taught as science, and even today biology textbooks isolate and underplay evolution to avoid offending them.) As you say, they all respond to attempts to restrict their falsehoods play into the paranoid narrative. But sunlight doesn't disinfect it, either. They've set themselves a very attractive head-I-win-tails-you lose scenario, making them impossible to stamp out or even mitigate the damage.
- octodog 6y ago
  > the free market of ideas will dispatch of them efficiently This is a bad concept that is far detached from reality. Participating in public discourse is not like selling wheat or steel. Sticking with the theme, a "free market of ideas" has significant transaction costs, information asymmetry and some actors wield significant market power (media organisations, public figures). It's a nice theory but there are many classic market failures at play here that should dispel any idea of reaching an efficient outcome.
- Threeve303 6y ago
  This was my first thought as well, sunlight is the best disinfectant. Now the counter argument would be, where has that sunlight been these past few years with everything out in the open...

tomcam 6y ago

I don't like the BBC because of its political slant, but in this case I feel their reporting it verbatim accurately absolutely helps the cause against racism. That's my problem with suppressing hate speech. Best way to get rid of it is to keep the people who deploy it out in the open, where the free market of ideas will dispatch with them efficiently. It's how someone like Daryl Davis can literally change the world: https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544861933/how-one-man-convinced-200-ku-klux-klan-members-to-give-up-their-robes https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544861933/how-one-man-convinc...

chrisseaton 6y ago
> I don't like the BBC because of its political slant Do you think it’s slanted left or right? Half think it’s extreme left wing, half think it’s extreme right wing. Or do you think it’s slanted along some other axis?
peteretep 6y ago
> I don't like the BBC because of its political slant The best thing about the BBC is that people on both the right and the left think it has a political slant against them
- edgyquant 6y ago
  Centrist institutions tend to have that problem
  - peteretep 6y ago
    Imagine thinking the political center was a bad place to be
    - gatlin 6y ago
      In what ways is it a good place to be?
      - peteretep 6y ago
        Take a list of countries in the world that have the best HDI rankings, press freedom rankings, universal healthcare and so on. Almost all are run by parties who are described primarily as being center-right or center-left.
        ideamotor 6y ago
        Thank you. Do these people not realize that centrist basically means stable and successful? Probably just sad sacks who want things to go sour. And I want to be clear, in the U.S. Dems are a center-left party and GOP is a (increasingly) far-right party. You can see this objectively by the percent of the time each member flips. Approx. around 80% GOP never flips versus only 20% Dems.
        secondcoming 6y ago
        Really. Everything I've read and heard about US politics would seems to suggest that the Dems are being pulled increasingly towards the extreme left.
        peteretep 6y ago
        > Everything I've read and heard about US politics would seems to suggest that the Dems are being pulled increasingly towards the extreme left We are either reading very different news, or your use of “extreme left” is highly out of sync with anything approaching common usage. Wake me me up when they start nationalising pensions
- MagnumOpus 6y ago
  Sadly they are both right. BBC news and political reporting (the thing politicians care about) have a massive bias towards the current UK government - for the last 5+ years that means a pro-austerity xenophobic anti-EU bent. If they veer from that they get their funding cut. BBC radio and drama/comedy/kids' TV studio content is generally very "politically correct" left-wing as the vast majority of employees in these industries are left wing. The stereotype of the BBC show with exactly one gay, one black and one disabled kid among its three-strong casts is not far off the mark...
nitrogen 6y ago
It's how someone like Daryl Davis can literally change the world I'd forgotten about this story, but it's a really good one. Sometimes we forget our humanity. If you want to convince people, don't browbeat them or belittle them. Do your homework, understand what they believe, and just generally show you're a good person. We need a new narrative to bubble up through the media that empowers voices of reason and calm, not voices that divide.
tekromancr 6y ago
I don't think that's the case. Every single instance of genocide in the last 150 years or so started as just some folks expressing a relatively fringe ideology, with plenty of others debating against it vigorously. For whatever reason, that ideology caught on, and then the mass murders start. People, as a general group, don't evaluate their beliefs in a rational manner. They are biased in favor of the first things they heard; and whatever is most palatable given their emotions and things they already believe. It's how you can get into a situation where massive numbers of people believe some combination of the ideas earth is 6000 years old and also flat and also that 5G causes covid and also covid was a hoax and face masks are just a mkultra trauma psyop run by the pedophile satanic illuminati cabal run by Hillary Clinton and George Soros. If people can hold all that in their heads, and not believe any evidence to the contrary; then the idea of suppressing the notions that Black folks/Jewish folks/Muslims/migrants/whatever are the root of society's problems and we should do violence to them starts to make a lot of sense. I also think that the idea that markets, particularly abstract ones, such as the "free market of ideas" are capable of producing long-term positive outcomes for most participants is, at best, without evidence and at worst pure fallacious thinking.
- raxxorrax 6y ago
  I think it was a charismatic figure convincing others that they are victims in most cases. That is not the whole truth of course, but far more accurate than saying the freedom of expression hurts minorities and leads to genocide. That is some class-A bullshit and revisionist of history. On the contrary, restricting people from stating their opinion reinforces their believe that the world is conspiring against them. You need to have some trust issue to come up with ideas like that. Flat earthers are only a problem to themselves so I don't understand your fascination with that group. The free market of ideas has produced the most free societies. Not just in history, it can be also be seen today. > They are biased That is true for nobody or everybody. In both cases it wouldn't matter, would it?
  - jfengel 6y ago
    Flat earthers may only be a problem of themselves, but climate denialists, anti-vaxxers, and creationists are not. (Creationists are constantly fighting to have theology taught as science, and even today biology textbooks isolate and underplay evolution to avoid offending them.) As you say, they all respond to attempts to restrict their falsehoods play into the paranoid narrative. But sunlight doesn't disinfect it, either. They've set themselves a very attractive head-I-win-tails-you lose scenario, making them impossible to stamp out or even mitigate the damage.
octodog 6y ago
> the free market of ideas will dispatch of them efficiently This is a bad concept that is far detached from reality. Participating in public discourse is not like selling wheat or steel. Sticking with the theme, a "free market of ideas" has significant transaction costs, information asymmetry and some actors wield significant market power (media organisations, public figures). It's a nice theory but there are many classic market failures at play here that should dispel any idea of reaching an efficient outcome.
Threeve303 6y ago
This was my first thought as well, sunlight is the best disinfectant. Now the counter argument would be, where has that sunlight been these past few years with everything out in the open...