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You know what would really cause you to lose muscle? Getting a bad (or even mild) case of COVID. I'm an athlete myself so I get it. Working out is important. B

You know what would really cause you to lose muscle? Getting a bad (or even mild) case of COVID. I'm an athlete myself so I get it. Working out is important. But people are reporting that they are not back to 100% even _months_ after the primary symptoms of COVID are gone. And health professionals are saying that it's very possible to lose things like lung capacity PERMANENTLY. Honestly that scares me more than the idea of being badly sick for 1-2 months. I worked hard to make my lungs strong. Also, of course, the whole concept of responsibility to our communities in a global pandemic is even more important, but an appeal to self-interest is there as well.

Jommi 6y ago
You're just again repeating this same unscientific fearmongering as everyone else. Yes, there are possible outcomes that are absolutely terrible and potentially even permanent! Nobody is debating this. However, what we need to have a real and fact-based discussion is that how prevalent these outcomes are, what are they based on, and what groups are most affected. Then we as a society can come together and choose what the appropriate response is. Of course this all breaks down when you have a country of 382M people that refuses to even attempt the creation of smaller, more manageable communities.
- rootusrootus 6y ago
  Something I've learned, which I definitely did not know before covid, is that a lot of common viruses do this kind of damage. Including the ones which cause colds, and definitely more serious viruses like influenza. Heart problems are definitely not unique to coronavirus, and in fact a lot of what we are seeing is par for the course. It's just that this is a very high profile pandemic and there is a huge amount of research being aimed at it.
  - Jommi 6y ago
    Yes your last sentence is correct. It is very obvious what's happening, yet even people here on HN (who usually challenge this kind of populist stuff) don't seem to understand it. It's very intriguing.
    - rootusrootus 6y ago
      > It is very obvious what's happening I don't understand that comment. I keep up to date on the latest scientific papers on the coronavirus pandemic, and the one thing I wouldn't call it is obvious. We repeatedly see things happening that run contrary to what the consensus expectation was. Obviously some of this is due to improvements in our understanding over time, but we are still very much in the dark about how it is currently spreading, who is most likely to suffer fatal or severe consequences, how we best treat the disease, etc. Charitably, it is neither as bad as we feared nor as innocuous as some hoped, but that was bound to be the case and easily predictable. I don't feel at all confident predicting what comes next, however.
      - Jommi 6y ago
        I guess I should have been more explicit. It is very obvious that in early 2020 we barely knew anything about this specific Coronavirus. The fact that we are still following the same guidelines as we did in February makes it pretty obvious that governments are not really working with the new data currently coming out, but instead still trying to scramble to put a cap on any possible downside COVID has. To put it in other terms, most world governments (and majority of their people in some cases!) are thinking like this currently, in terms of "amount of danger" potential, currently unknown, negative outcomes related to COVID > millions without jobs, tens of millions stuck inside getting cabin fever and whole industries collapsing.
        saalweachter 6y ago
        > The fact that we are still following the same guidelines as we did in February makes it pretty obvious that governments are not really working with the new data currently coming out, but instead still trying to scramble to put a cap on any possible downside COVID has. Who is "we"? My state went from "no one go anywhere, disinfect surfaces" to "wear masks everywhere, avoid groups of people indoors". We've gone through a lot of phases as more information became available, and while things are very much not yet back to normal, many restrictions have been lifted once it was apparent they weren't needed.
- alistairSH 6y ago
  https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertglatter/2020/08/17/covid-19-can-cause-heart-damageeven-if-you-are-asymptomatic/#747142126cef https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertglatter/2020/08/17/covid-... https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertglatter/2020/08/17/covid-19-can-cause-heart-damageeven-if-you-are-asymptomatic/#747142126cef https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertglatter/2020/08/17/covid-...
  - Jommi 6y ago
    Yes, no one is debating the potential negative outcomes of having COVID. Not sure what you are trying to show.
ReptileMan 6y ago
It matters of course how many of how many are reporting that? 1/2 not worth it. 1/1000 - will take my chances. Covid seems to have flipped a switch in people's brains that make every probability 1.
- juliansimioni 6y ago
  I wouldn't take the 1/1000 chance, but even then. It's not an all or nothing choice. It's more like: - X/1000 chance for people who go to the gym, get sick, lose health permanently, probably infect others - 0/1000 chance of the same if you stay away from the gym and try to do some sort of similar workout at home, even if it's not ideal. Body weight exercises are great by the way Who cares if X is 1 or 999? Why would anyone choose the first option?
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    Many people simply aren't willing to indefinitely maintain a lifestyle that would protect them from the coronavirus, so the risk is already priced in. It's distributed over the times that I visit my family, my roommate visits his friends, I go to the cafe, etc.
  - matz1 6y ago
    >Why would anyone choose the first option? True if there is no downside, but I can easily think few benefit going to gym : - some sports can't be done indoor - some sports can't be done alone - some sports require equipment that you don't have at home - social benefit
    - juliansimioni 6y ago
      Yeah, as a former powerlifter I would really be missing my gym buddies if I was really into it now. For now it seems like indoor gyms as we know them today are probably a bad idea. Hopefully due to a combination of better mitigations in the gym itself (sure put the squat rack in a giant bubble), decline in case counts, etc means the day where going back is not too far away (fingers crossed).
hammock 6y ago
Do you plan to avoid COVID forever? Do you believe you will never get it? Do you expect to isolate yourself until an effective and reliable vaccine is available to you? How long can you do that for? Are you most concerned with not getting it yourself, or with reducing the overall death count by not overloading the healthcare system?
- bluGill 6y ago
  I'm most concerned with my family not getting it. I have no interest in attending another funeral for a child in my life and I would not want my kids to grow up missing a parent. We miss friends dearly. I'm hoping that the early vaccine trials go well and are approved. There is promising progress there but who knows.
  - matz1 6y ago
    There are very very small chance that your kid will negativity by covid let alone death.
    - bluGill 6y ago
      Small but non zero for death. There seem to be other nasty long term effects that are mostly unknown. The idea that kids don't get or spread covid is not supported by evidence. They seem to get less symptoms, but there isn't enough evidence to say they don't get or spread it. Some studies suggest they are more likely to get and spread it, but there isn't enough to make strong statements yet
      - matz1 6y ago
        >Small but non zero for death. Of course, there always non zero probably of death for anything. >There seem to be other nasty long term effects that are mostly unknown. Of course, it could happen with any other diseases >The idea that kids don't get or spread covid is not supported by evidence Of course they may get or spread it but its very unlikely. >but there isn't enough to make strong statements yet Exactly, if there isn't enough evidence then don't close school.

Jommi 6y ago

You're just again repeating this same unscientific fearmongering as everyone else. Yes, there are possible outcomes that are absolutely terrible and potentially even permanent! Nobody is debating this. However, what we need to have a real and fact-based discussion is that how prevalent these outcomes are, what are they based on, and what groups are most affected. Then we as a society can come together and choose what the appropriate response is. Of course this all breaks down when you have a country of 382M people that refuses to even attempt the creation of smaller, more manageable communities.

rootusrootus 6y ago
Something I've learned, which I definitely did not know before covid, is that a lot of common viruses do this kind of damage. Including the ones which cause colds, and definitely more serious viruses like influenza. Heart problems are definitely not unique to coronavirus, and in fact a lot of what we are seeing is par for the course. It's just that this is a very high profile pandemic and there is a huge amount of research being aimed at it.
- Jommi 6y ago
  Yes your last sentence is correct. It is very obvious what's happening, yet even people here on HN (who usually challenge this kind of populist stuff) don't seem to understand it. It's very intriguing.
  - rootusrootus 6y ago
    > It is very obvious what's happening I don't understand that comment. I keep up to date on the latest scientific papers on the coronavirus pandemic, and the one thing I wouldn't call it is obvious. We repeatedly see things happening that run contrary to what the consensus expectation was. Obviously some of this is due to improvements in our understanding over time, but we are still very much in the dark about how it is currently spreading, who is most likely to suffer fatal or severe consequences, how we best treat the disease, etc. Charitably, it is neither as bad as we feared nor as innocuous as some hoped, but that was bound to be the case and easily predictable. I don't feel at all confident predicting what comes next, however.
    - Jommi 6y ago
      I guess I should have been more explicit. It is very obvious that in early 2020 we barely knew anything about this specific Coronavirus. The fact that we are still following the same guidelines as we did in February makes it pretty obvious that governments are not really working with the new data currently coming out, but instead still trying to scramble to put a cap on any possible downside COVID has. To put it in other terms, most world governments (and majority of their people in some cases!) are thinking like this currently, in terms of "amount of danger" potential, currently unknown, negative outcomes related to COVID > millions without jobs, tens of millions stuck inside getting cabin fever and whole industries collapsing.
      - saalweachter 6y ago
        > The fact that we are still following the same guidelines as we did in February makes it pretty obvious that governments are not really working with the new data currently coming out, but instead still trying to scramble to put a cap on any possible downside COVID has. Who is "we"? My state went from "no one go anywhere, disinfect surfaces" to "wear masks everywhere, avoid groups of people indoors". We've gone through a lot of phases as more information became available, and while things are very much not yet back to normal, many restrictions have been lifted once it was apparent they weren't needed.
alistairSH 6y ago
https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertglatter/2020/08/17/covid-19-can-cause-heart-damageeven-if-you-are-asymptomatic/#747142126cef https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertglatter/2020/08/17/covid-... https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertglatter/2020/08/17/covid-19-can-cause-heart-damageeven-if-you-are-asymptomatic/#747142126cef https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertglatter/2020/08/17/covid-...
- Jommi 6y ago
  Yes, no one is debating the potential negative outcomes of having COVID. Not sure what you are trying to show.

ReptileMan 6y ago

It matters of course how many of how many are reporting that? 1/2 not worth it. 1/1000 - will take my chances. Covid seems to have flipped a switch in people's brains that make every probability 1.

juliansimioni 6y ago
I wouldn't take the 1/1000 chance, but even then. It's not an all or nothing choice. It's more like: - X/1000 chance for people who go to the gym, get sick, lose health permanently, probably infect others - 0/1000 chance of the same if you stay away from the gym and try to do some sort of similar workout at home, even if it's not ideal. Body weight exercises are great by the way Who cares if X is 1 or 999? Why would anyone choose the first option?
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  Many people simply aren't willing to indefinitely maintain a lifestyle that would protect them from the coronavirus, so the risk is already priced in. It's distributed over the times that I visit my family, my roommate visits his friends, I go to the cafe, etc.
- matz1 6y ago
  >Why would anyone choose the first option? True if there is no downside, but I can easily think few benefit going to gym : - some sports can't be done indoor - some sports can't be done alone - some sports require equipment that you don't have at home - social benefit
  - juliansimioni 6y ago
    Yeah, as a former powerlifter I would really be missing my gym buddies if I was really into it now. For now it seems like indoor gyms as we know them today are probably a bad idea. Hopefully due to a combination of better mitigations in the gym itself (sure put the squat rack in a giant bubble), decline in case counts, etc means the day where going back is not too far away (fingers crossed).

hammock 6y ago

Do you plan to avoid COVID forever? Do you believe you will never get it? Do you expect to isolate yourself until an effective and reliable vaccine is available to you? How long can you do that for? Are you most concerned with not getting it yourself, or with reducing the overall death count by not overloading the healthcare system?

bluGill 6y ago
I'm most concerned with my family not getting it. I have no interest in attending another funeral for a child in my life and I would not want my kids to grow up missing a parent. We miss friends dearly. I'm hoping that the early vaccine trials go well and are approved. There is promising progress there but who knows.
- matz1 6y ago
  There are very very small chance that your kid will negativity by covid let alone death.
  - bluGill 6y ago
    Small but non zero for death. There seem to be other nasty long term effects that are mostly unknown. The idea that kids don't get or spread covid is not supported by evidence. They seem to get less symptoms, but there isn't enough evidence to say they don't get or spread it. Some studies suggest they are more likely to get and spread it, but there isn't enough to make strong statements yet
    - matz1 6y ago
      >Small but non zero for death. Of course, there always non zero probably of death for anything. >There seem to be other nasty long term effects that are mostly unknown. Of course, it could happen with any other diseases >The idea that kids don't get or spread covid is not supported by evidence Of course they may get or spread it but its very unlikely. >but there isn't enough to make strong statements yet Exactly, if there isn't enough evidence then don't close school.