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Where else are you gonna put your money? Stable governments are paying ~0 or negative interest. I'm actually asking, right now I'm just paying off debt but wou

Where else are you gonna put your money? Stable governments are paying ~0 or negative interest. I'm actually asking, right now I'm just paying off debt but would be curious what people think. If I didn't have the debt I'd probably buy equities (index fund, etc.) like everoyne else.

giantg2 6y ago
Commodities could be another option. I think gold and silver aren't great choices right now, but maybe platinum is. Along this same line, real estate has real value to it.
- ghaff 6y ago
  I'd be very nervous about real estate right now. It requires a lot of speculation about long-time remote work and how cities are going to come out of this. That said, it's something I'd keep my eye on. I agree gold has had a good run up but the adviser on my managed account just sold the gold position. You can certainly have (and probably should have) some amount in bonds, etc. but the returns will indeed be pretty low. Unless you're super-pessimistic to the point where you just want to put everything under your mattress, it's hard not to have at least a fairly significant share in equities.
  - giantg2 6y ago
    Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. It seems the real estate market is really hot right now in the NJ/MD/E. PA regions.
    - ghaff 6y ago
      It is with people moving out of cities. But a hot market is exactly when you probably don't want to invest, especially when there's at least some possibility that a couple years from now, the exodus from cities will be seen as a panic overreaction. As for real estate in cities, property prices mostly don't yet reflect people moving out and a likely commercial real estate collapse. The other question is whether, to the degree prices in cities come down, people who have been pining to live in some city will still want to do this with so many businesses permanently gone and city services in shambles.
      - giantg2 6y ago
        I guess I should add that the market has been hot for the past few years and hasn't slowed down. I think the bigger threat to property values will be if interest rates rise significantly. Barring a complete economic collapse, I think raw land or residential rentals should be fine, especially if we see inflation from the current monetary policy. Personally, I would never buy real estate in a big city. I might be biased since the ones around here are the likes of Trenton, Philadelphia, and Baltimore. City services have been in shambles in these cities for a long time. I don't even like to visit them.
        ghaff 6y ago
        I live outside of Boston/Cambridge so I've been more tempted over the years and I do like visiting. But the prices have managed to continuously outpace my appetite for having a place in town. I will keep my eye on the market as the current situation plays out but I don't really expect a major drop; there wasn't in 2008.
        giantg2 6y ago
        I'd actually like to move to a more rural area with a lower cost of living. Prices and taxes constantly increase here. It seems like there's also an ever increasing number of invasive laws or policies.
- robjan 6y ago
  Other articles are saying that the US is sitting on a foreclosure timebomb. Not sure if real estate is safer than index funds right now..
  - giantg2 6y ago
    I should have been more specific. Viewing it as a commodity, you can buy raw land and sell it to a developer in the future. It'd be a long hold and not a good idea in every region, but might be a good option as compared to government bonds or a savings account. Definitely riskier than an index fund.
- badwolf 6y ago
  Lumber has been having quite the ride the last several weeks
  - giantg2 6y ago
    Could be a good shortterm play. I'd be concerned about getting in now for a long hold. The price spikes are mostly due to covid related supply issues. Prices should normalize in the next few months (I think).
  - CalRobert 6y ago
    Well, I _am_ ordering a bunch of 2x6's today to build a shed...
- mantap 6y ago
  Real estate has intrinsic value but does it have returns? Residential real estate is fundamentally limited by wages but we are seeing huge unemployment. And demand for commercial real estate is low due to the whole pandemic situation. If you want to invest in commercial real estate then you are betting that these tendencies towards doing things online are a temporary blip. That could well be false, people are developing new purchasing and working patterns, it's entirely possible that this pandemic will lead to permanent changes in real estate demand.
- CalRobert 6y ago
  Actually, last year I inadvertently become a real estate investor because I was tired of paying rent and hated debt, so I looked for cheap rundown shacks I could live in (barely) and buy cash. Ended up in an old cottage well under 100k on 3.5 acres an hour from the city. Which, in retrospect, was basically like hitting the jackpot for pandemic quality of life. Just dumb luck, though.
  - giantg2 6y ago
    I dream of owning land one day. KY has some cheap stuff. I might be able to afford 50-100 acres there.
    - CalRobert 6y ago
      Yeah - I think we're going to see a large rebalancing of land values and salaries as remote work becomes more common. The areas that are too far to commute to the city, but close enough for a day trip or the odd visit, are looking really appealing right now. Although, this is in Europe. A house on 3 acres of land where you could get the train to SF for work in an hour would cost a LOT more than 100k I imagine.
SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
After years of squirreling away my cash like someone who spent their entire 20's working minimum wage jobs or in school I finally bought into some index funds. I too don't know what to do with my money - you can't save it (even in less crazy times it's eaten up by inflation), you can't buy bonds right now, so I said to hell with it, I'm not going to time the market, I'm just going to buy in to funds that try to match the S&P and hope that by the time I need it the market will be in a better place than it is today. I don't know what else you can do if you want to try and plan to have money 20 years out. I'm sure others will have more nuanced options, and I look forward to hearing about them.
- bradstewart 6y ago
  Long term, index funds. Short term, money market (or high-yield savings accounts that do the money market stuff for you).
  - SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
    The money market is high risk, right? And looking at the high yield savings accounts - based upon a quick google the best option if you're American seems to be 1%?
    - Armisael16 6y ago
      Money markets are extremely low risk. In the 37 years before 2008 only three money market funds had ever failed to return the full investment (“broke the buck”). You may be thinking of forex trading.
      - SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
        > You may be thinking of forex trading. Yeah, that would be it.
    - svachalek 6y ago
      Money market is very low (but not zero) risk which is why it’s suitable for short term savings. And yeah, 1% is about the best rate you’ll find, subject to change at any moment.
gazelleeatslion 6y ago
Bitcoin. But seriously I do agree — despite it being loved by PF/FIRE crowd — parking all your assets in Index funds with no other competitive option is terrifying.
- TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
  Bitcoin is 100% speculative. It has no utility. You can't build with it. The fees make using it as fiat prohibitively expensive. I agree that it will likely go up. I'm actually in the process of testing software I made to predict and exploit its movement. But since it's just speculative, it will also eventually go down hard like it did in 2018.
  - gazelleeatslion 6y ago
    Was being sarcastic. ETF = risk-adverse and Bitcoin = exact opposite. Whole point was there is no competitive option to an ETF (and that is obviously not bitcoin)
    - TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
      Ah, thank you. Sarcasm is hard to read in text. I've seen a lot of people use "/s" to signify sarcasm, but I don't know how universally recognized it is.
  - justinmeiners 6y ago
    > it has no utility. You can send money anywhere in the world in any amount for a flat fee. It provides an asset with a fixed supply to prevent against inflation. these provide plenty of utility What you may mean is that it doesn't generate earnings/cash flow so it's not a productive investment.
zie 6y ago
Paying off debt is absolutely the right move. It gets you a guaranteed return of whatever your APR is. Debt is a negative bond, while bonds are currently paying around 0%, while terrible, is still way better than a negative #. After your debt is paid off, then buy TSM(total Stock Market) index funds. I recently came across an example here of what a TSM index fund can do for one's financial life: https://deepnote.com/project/b7be8d06-b84c-4178-b51a-688bef90c100 https://deepnote.com/project/b7be8d06-b84c-4178-b51a-688bef9...

giantg2 6y ago

Commodities could be another option. I think gold and silver aren't great choices right now, but maybe platinum is. Along this same line, real estate has real value to it.

ghaff 6y ago
I'd be very nervous about real estate right now. It requires a lot of speculation about long-time remote work and how cities are going to come out of this. That said, it's something I'd keep my eye on. I agree gold has had a good run up but the adviser on my managed account just sold the gold position. You can certainly have (and probably should have) some amount in bonds, etc. but the returns will indeed be pretty low. Unless you're super-pessimistic to the point where you just want to put everything under your mattress, it's hard not to have at least a fairly significant share in equities.
- giantg2 6y ago
  Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. It seems the real estate market is really hot right now in the NJ/MD/E. PA regions.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    It is with people moving out of cities. But a hot market is exactly when you probably don't want to invest, especially when there's at least some possibility that a couple years from now, the exodus from cities will be seen as a panic overreaction. As for real estate in cities, property prices mostly don't yet reflect people moving out and a likely commercial real estate collapse. The other question is whether, to the degree prices in cities come down, people who have been pining to live in some city will still want to do this with so many businesses permanently gone and city services in shambles.
    - giantg2 6y ago
      I guess I should add that the market has been hot for the past few years and hasn't slowed down. I think the bigger threat to property values will be if interest rates rise significantly. Barring a complete economic collapse, I think raw land or residential rentals should be fine, especially if we see inflation from the current monetary policy. Personally, I would never buy real estate in a big city. I might be biased since the ones around here are the likes of Trenton, Philadelphia, and Baltimore. City services have been in shambles in these cities for a long time. I don't even like to visit them.
      - ghaff 6y ago
        I live outside of Boston/Cambridge so I've been more tempted over the years and I do like visiting. But the prices have managed to continuously outpace my appetite for having a place in town. I will keep my eye on the market as the current situation plays out but I don't really expect a major drop; there wasn't in 2008.
        giantg2 6y ago
        I'd actually like to move to a more rural area with a lower cost of living. Prices and taxes constantly increase here. It seems like there's also an ever increasing number of invasive laws or policies.
robjan 6y ago
Other articles are saying that the US is sitting on a foreclosure timebomb. Not sure if real estate is safer than index funds right now..
- giantg2 6y ago
  I should have been more specific. Viewing it as a commodity, you can buy raw land and sell it to a developer in the future. It'd be a long hold and not a good idea in every region, but might be a good option as compared to government bonds or a savings account. Definitely riskier than an index fund.
badwolf 6y ago
Lumber has been having quite the ride the last several weeks
- giantg2 6y ago
  Could be a good shortterm play. I'd be concerned about getting in now for a long hold. The price spikes are mostly due to covid related supply issues. Prices should normalize in the next few months (I think).
- CalRobert 6y ago
  Well, I _am_ ordering a bunch of 2x6's today to build a shed...
mantap 6y ago
Real estate has intrinsic value but does it have returns? Residential real estate is fundamentally limited by wages but we are seeing huge unemployment. And demand for commercial real estate is low due to the whole pandemic situation. If you want to invest in commercial real estate then you are betting that these tendencies towards doing things online are a temporary blip. That could well be false, people are developing new purchasing and working patterns, it's entirely possible that this pandemic will lead to permanent changes in real estate demand.
CalRobert 6y ago
Actually, last year I inadvertently become a real estate investor because I was tired of paying rent and hated debt, so I looked for cheap rundown shacks I could live in (barely) and buy cash. Ended up in an old cottage well under 100k on 3.5 acres an hour from the city. Which, in retrospect, was basically like hitting the jackpot for pandemic quality of life. Just dumb luck, though.
- giantg2 6y ago
  I dream of owning land one day. KY has some cheap stuff. I might be able to afford 50-100 acres there.
  - CalRobert 6y ago
    Yeah - I think we're going to see a large rebalancing of land values and salaries as remote work becomes more common. The areas that are too far to commute to the city, but close enough for a day trip or the odd visit, are looking really appealing right now. Although, this is in Europe. A house on 3 acres of land where you could get the train to SF for work in an hour would cost a LOT more than 100k I imagine.

SketchySeaBeast 6y ago

After years of squirreling away my cash like someone who spent their entire 20's working minimum wage jobs or in school I finally bought into some index funds. I too don't know what to do with my money - you can't save it (even in less crazy times it's eaten up by inflation), you can't buy bonds right now, so I said to hell with it, I'm not going to time the market, I'm just going to buy in to funds that try to match the S&P and hope that by the time I need it the market will be in a better place than it is today. I don't know what else you can do if you want to try and plan to have money 20 years out. I'm sure others will have more nuanced options, and I look forward to hearing about them.

bradstewart 6y ago
Long term, index funds. Short term, money market (or high-yield savings accounts that do the money market stuff for you).
- SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
  The money market is high risk, right? And looking at the high yield savings accounts - based upon a quick google the best option if you're American seems to be 1%?
  - Armisael16 6y ago
    Money markets are extremely low risk. In the 37 years before 2008 only three money market funds had ever failed to return the full investment (“broke the buck”). You may be thinking of forex trading.
    - SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
      > You may be thinking of forex trading. Yeah, that would be it.
  - svachalek 6y ago
    Money market is very low (but not zero) risk which is why it’s suitable for short term savings. And yeah, 1% is about the best rate you’ll find, subject to change at any moment.

gazelleeatslion 6y ago

Bitcoin. But seriously I do agree — despite it being loved by PF/FIRE crowd — parking all your assets in Index funds with no other competitive option is terrifying.

TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
Bitcoin is 100% speculative. It has no utility. You can't build with it. The fees make using it as fiat prohibitively expensive. I agree that it will likely go up. I'm actually in the process of testing software I made to predict and exploit its movement. But since it's just speculative, it will also eventually go down hard like it did in 2018.
- gazelleeatslion 6y ago
  Was being sarcastic. ETF = risk-adverse and Bitcoin = exact opposite. Whole point was there is no competitive option to an ETF (and that is obviously not bitcoin)
  - TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
    Ah, thank you. Sarcasm is hard to read in text. I've seen a lot of people use "/s" to signify sarcasm, but I don't know how universally recognized it is.
- justinmeiners 6y ago
  > it has no utility. You can send money anywhere in the world in any amount for a flat fee. It provides an asset with a fixed supply to prevent against inflation. these provide plenty of utility What you may mean is that it doesn't generate earnings/cash flow so it's not a productive investment.

zie 6y ago

Paying off debt is absolutely the right move. It gets you a guaranteed return of whatever your APR is. Debt is a negative bond, while bonds are currently paying around 0%, while terrible, is still way better than a negative #. After your debt is paid off, then buy TSM(total Stock Market) index funds. I recently came across an example here of what a TSM index fund can do for one's financial life: https://deepnote.com/project/b7be8d06-b84c-4178-b51a-688bef90c100 https://deepnote.com/project/b7be8d06-b84c-4178-b51a-688bef9...