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Yep, I think ads is just another way of saying monetization. The app has lots of annoying notifications like "You might like...", "You got 100 upvotes", etc whi

by nevf1 6y ago

Yep, I think ads is just another way of saying monetization. The app has lots of annoying notifications like "You might like...", "You got 100 upvotes", etc which, when you engage with more, they make more money through ads, coins etc. Your attention, retention and engagement is a lot easier to manage and increase through an app than it is through website.

Cthulhu_ 6y ago
Instead of direct monetization, they probably measure by engagement. If a service has a permanent presence on your device, you get a LOT more engagement and recurring visits than a web version. Websites on mobile are one-time, visit-and-forget/move on things. I'd love to be proven wrong though; what websites see daily, recurring, long time active usage? Also not to be underestimated is that a mobile app will always have better UX than a website. Think of the subtle things like page transitions. Navigating Reddit still causes full-page reloads, whereas on the app it's a much more organic process. Speed is also an important factor.
- allerhellsten 6y ago
  Exactly this. To give you a datapoint from our properties: Our web site attracts 90% of the users, but only 60% of the actual traffic. In all metrics like retention, frequency and time on site, mobile leads by factors of 2-5. Part of that is definitely self-selection, but as some people already said, other notable effects are push notifications, mindshare, loss aversion (you're on somebody's device already, so they can just as well use it) and partly better performance. So much about the users, but Monetization is much better as well, mostly due to mobile ad-IDs, which especially on iOS lets you extract double the revenue per user due to targeting. Ad blockers are harder to bypass. In the end, a mobile app will get you anywhere between 2-10x the revenue per user you attracted to your property, so that's why Reddit is pushing so hard. To stay in Reddit's lingo though: `LPT: https://old.reddit.com` https://old.reddit.com`
  - GekkePrutser 6y ago
    I understand, but they're also pushing many users away with this behaviour. It's what I like about HN.. It feels like they don't even care how much users 'engage'. I bet they don't even run a report on it. They just let us do our thing here and not worry about it. As a user this is a much nicer experience.
    - PakG1 6y ago
      Easy for HN to do that. HN is not incentivized to make money. The people who run HN do not care if HN does not make any money. In fact, they have zero monetization strategies for HN.
      - zozbot234 6y ago
        HN has ads on its front page. Not many of them, and they are quite hard to spot at a glance (mixed in with the content, not clearly marked as such) but they're there.
        fauigerzigerk 6y ago
        I've never seen an ad on HN. They must be really hard to spot.
        waterhouse 6y ago
        There's currently one on the frontpage for GiveCampus, shown below a regular story: 14. The Haunted House – Privacy on Google Street View (harpers.org) 8 points by b0b10101 1 hour ago | flag | hide | 1 comment 15. GiveCampus (YC S15) hiring Sr Engineers who care about education (lever.co) 1 hour ago | hide Distinctive features: no upvote button, no point value, no flag link, no comments.
        fauigerzigerk 6y ago
        14. "The Haunted House" is not an ad as far as I can see. It does have an upvote button. 15. is a job posting by a YC company. Perhaps you could classify it as an ad, but I see it as a perk that YC grants its own companies.
- badassiel 6y ago
  someone compared mobile and web (with data from study) as Web, easier to attract, difficult to retain and vice versa for mobile. Could be the reason why web to app migration practices are followed. best of both worlds.
- marcosdumay 6y ago
  > what websites see daily, recurring, long time active usage? Reddit Do you really think that people would stop going to reddit if they used the site instead of the app on their mobile? (But, of course, the people more prone to recurring visits are more likely to install an app.) > mobile app will always have better UX than a website And again, it's reddit we are talking about here. The app experience is just horrible.
GekkePrutser 6y ago
They really hurt their own monetisation by making the subscriptions too expensive though. They more than doubled in price recently. It's not worth the price anymore for me.
RealStickman_ 6y ago
It's also interesting to note that the old ui on a desktop does not have these useless messages you mentioned.

by nevf1 6y ago

Cthulhu_ 6y ago

Instead of direct monetization, they probably measure by engagement. If a service has a permanent presence on your device, you get a LOT more engagement and recurring visits than a web version. Websites on mobile are one-time, visit-and-forget/move on things. I'd love to be proven wrong though; what websites see daily, recurring, long time active usage? Also not to be underestimated is that a mobile app will always have better UX than a website. Think of the subtle things like page transitions. Navigating Reddit still causes full-page reloads, whereas on the app it's a much more organic process. Speed is also an important factor.

allerhellsten 6y ago
Exactly this. To give you a datapoint from our properties: Our web site attracts 90% of the users, but only 60% of the actual traffic. In all metrics like retention, frequency and time on site, mobile leads by factors of 2-5. Part of that is definitely self-selection, but as some people already said, other notable effects are push notifications, mindshare, loss aversion (you're on somebody's device already, so they can just as well use it) and partly better performance. So much about the users, but Monetization is much better as well, mostly due to mobile ad-IDs, which especially on iOS lets you extract double the revenue per user due to targeting. Ad blockers are harder to bypass. In the end, a mobile app will get you anywhere between 2-10x the revenue per user you attracted to your property, so that's why Reddit is pushing so hard. To stay in Reddit's lingo though: `LPT: https://old.reddit.com` https://old.reddit.com`
- GekkePrutser 6y ago
  I understand, but they're also pushing many users away with this behaviour. It's what I like about HN.. It feels like they don't even care how much users 'engage'. I bet they don't even run a report on it. They just let us do our thing here and not worry about it. As a user this is a much nicer experience.
  - PakG1 6y ago
    Easy for HN to do that. HN is not incentivized to make money. The people who run HN do not care if HN does not make any money. In fact, they have zero monetization strategies for HN.
    - zozbot234 6y ago
      HN has ads on its front page. Not many of them, and they are quite hard to spot at a glance (mixed in with the content, not clearly marked as such) but they're there.
      - fauigerzigerk 6y ago
        I've never seen an ad on HN. They must be really hard to spot.
        waterhouse 6y ago
        There's currently one on the frontpage for GiveCampus, shown below a regular story: 14. The Haunted House – Privacy on Google Street View (harpers.org) 8 points by b0b10101 1 hour ago | flag | hide | 1 comment 15. GiveCampus (YC S15) hiring Sr Engineers who care about education (lever.co) 1 hour ago | hide Distinctive features: no upvote button, no point value, no flag link, no comments.
        fauigerzigerk 6y ago
        14. "The Haunted House" is not an ad as far as I can see. It does have an upvote button. 15. is a job posting by a YC company. Perhaps you could classify it as an ad, but I see it as a perk that YC grants its own companies.
badassiel 6y ago
someone compared mobile and web (with data from study) as Web, easier to attract, difficult to retain and vice versa for mobile. Could be the reason why web to app migration practices are followed. best of both worlds.
marcosdumay 6y ago
> what websites see daily, recurring, long time active usage? Reddit Do you really think that people would stop going to reddit if they used the site instead of the app on their mobile? (But, of course, the people more prone to recurring visits are more likely to install an app.) > mobile app will always have better UX than a website And again, it's reddit we are talking about here. The app experience is just horrible.

GekkePrutser 6y ago

They really hurt their own monetisation by making the subscriptions too expensive though. They more than doubled in price recently. It's not worth the price anymore for me.

RealStickman_ 6y ago

It's also interesting to note that the old ui on a desktop does not have these useless messages you mentioned.