3 ms·
> This allows different observers to reasonably disagree about which came first. Basic relativity. that happens all the time. Lets set aside the Earth being cu
by iso1631 6y ago
> This allows different observers to reasonably disagree about which came first. Basic relativity.
that happens all the time. Lets set aside the Earth being curved for a moment - I'll use real cities but these could be asteroids floating in intergalactic space at the same distance.
I'm in London, I see an event happen in London, Moscow, New York and LA all at the same time, at 12:00:00.500 UTC according to me.
London-Moscow 9ms
London-NY 66ms
London-LA 103ms
Lets imagine they are in a straight line too and all in the same reference pane.
The events actually occurred in the follow order, at the following milliseconds past 12:00:00 UTC, according to our NTP synced clocks.
LA: 397ms
NY: 434ms
Moscow: 491ms
London: 500ms
From LA's point of view they would see
LA: 397ms
NY: 471ms
London: 603ms
Moscow: 603ms
From Moscow's POV
Moscow: 491ms
London: 509ms
NY: 509ms
LA: 509ms
From NY's POV
LA: 434ms
NY: 434ms
London: 566ms
Moscow: 566ms
So LA thinks LA was first, NY was second, London and Moscow co-timed third.
NY thinks LA and NY were co-timed first, then London and Moscow co-timed third.
Moscow thinks Moscow was first, everywhere else was second.
London thinks everywhere was first
So we disagree. So what.
Now sure, if your wormholes are in different reference frames you can get confusions, but why would a wormhole with two ends fixed in the same reference frame and neither end accelerating allow passing information backwards in time?
I know relativity says there is no universal clock everyone agrees on, but isn't that only applicable for points in different reference planes (and even then you can surely adjust if you know your relative velocity to the universal point)?
Back to cosmic scales. Point A, B, C, D, all 10 light years apart, same reference frame
Point A event happens at t+0
B sees at t+10, C and t+20, D at t+30.
D also has a wormhole to A, so sees the event in the wormhole at t+0, and causes a separate event (light up a sign saying "A event just happend")
C would see that D is flagging the event at t+10, but have to wait until t+20 to see it. Why is that bad?
How would D get a signal back to A before t+0. I guess a spaceship in a different reference frame (say v=0.99c) at D could see (old fashioned looking out the window) the "event just happened" message, then use a separate wormhole to send a message to a spaceship at A travelling in the same reference frame as spaceship D. Spaceship A could then light up a message, which planet A could see, but would planet A see that before t+0 on their local clock?
- Dylan16807 6y agoOne wormhole with stable end points never causes time travel. You get a privileged reference frame type of FTL travel, which is completely safe. The issues arise when both spaceships have the ability to go faster than light in their own reference frame.
- iso1631 6y agoOK, so set up 4 starbases (called A, B, C, D), each 100 light hours from each other in a stable reference frame. They have a wormhole from A to D. Wormhole from 1 light minute south of A, to 1 light minute south of B, travelling at 0.99c northwards according to the starbase reference frames, both ends in the same reference frame as each other, but in a different one to the starbases. Everyone looks at A for the time, it says "time = 1200h" at A, B sees "time=1100h", C sees "time=1000h", D sees "time=900h", but they know the distance so can work out that it is currently 1200h, so all set their clocks, which run at the same time as they are in reference frames. Event occurs at 1200h at starbase B. Event is seen at starbase A and C at 1300h. How can you use the wormhole to pass information back in time. Assume both ends of each wormhole are in the same reference frame, but aren't changing reference frame (no acceleration)
- Dylan16807 6y agoFirst off I have to admit I'm having a bit of trouble nailing down the exact math, but I'll do my best. If we arrange the starbases on the north-south line, I believe that the roaming wormhole would allow a ship to observe the event at starbase B, then jump through and pop out next to starbase A at roughly 1115h. (If that number is wrong, then adjust the wormhole velocity I guess.) In this scenario, you can't violate causality. You're 100 light hours from B, and the A<->D wormhole is too far away to help. But if you changed it so that B, C, and D are only 10 light hours from each other, you could then take the wormhole to D. Now it's roughly 1116h, and you're only 20 light hours from B. You can send a signal about the event at 1200h, and it will arrive at 1136h. You sent information back in time.
- 6y ago