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An example of how brands build fake reviews on Amazon
- zeepzeep 6y agoA friend of mine is in a facebook group that has lists of products you can buy, then 4/5-star review and get your money back. We're talking 10-100€ products. He goes as far as reviewing everything he doesn't buy there with less than 3 stars so his account isn't suspicious. Doing this he completely destroys what reviews are meant to be, not only helping shady companies but also hurting legit ones.
- luckylion 6y agoAnd unfortunately, Amazon has little incentive to stop that. They don't care whether you buy product A or product B as long as you buy them on Amazon. Given that people compare ratings on their platform, it's a safe bet that they'll buy there whatever they decide on. The official Vine club hands out 5s on a suspicious scale as well - and even though the reviewers are marked by the little Vine badge, it looks more like a verification check mark than an ad disclosure, likely boosting the signal instead of dampening it.
- Nasrudith 6y agoI'll bite - how does incentive have anything to do with a task that is essentially impossible to stop at large? There will always be someone gaming it to boost sales and work around it. It seems a bit like complaining that a surgeon that does autopsies doesn't raise the dead.
- corty 6y agoAmazon actively ignores reports such as the OPs, has corruption in its ranks and even has programs like Vine to generate overly positive reviews. Even if Amazon could not stop review crime, it could end its complicity in it and drastically reduce it. This doesn't happen because a) it costs money and b) it might reduce sales. Incentives are very clear and relevant in this situation.
- nkozyra 6y agoThat ship has sailed, in my opinion. Reviews - particularly on Amazon - are meaningless. The cat-and-mouse game has gone so far that as a consumer I see a 4.9 rating as indistinguishable from a 0.9 rating. Buying from an unknown brand is a crapshoot. Buying from a known brand on Amazon isn't much better. And it makes me wonder how long these black hat practices are going to be useful to sellers. Most Amazon users have to be feeling the same way at this point.
- corty 6y agoReviews still have one purpose left: On a product I'm about to buy, I'll read a handfull of 2-star-reviews and look for frequent problems and failure modes of the product. If I find them convincing and relevant to my use case, I maybe refrain from buying. But other than that, reviews are at best useless or at worst criminally misleading.
- christophilus 6y agoThose are often fake, too, though.
- fock 6y agoprobably not the ones with the device failing documented by photos.
- corty 6y agoMaybe. But a vendor not getting rid of such fake negatives (which is said to be easily possible) is at least a bad sign of apathy and neglect from the vendor. And since not buying is the safer choice anyways, the existence of fake negatives isn't that much of a problem.
- sukilot 6y agoYou prefer vendors who manipulate reviews over ones who focus on the product and service?
- ycombinete 6y agoThat’s despicable. That behaviour must surely adjust your perception of their character.
- bzb4 6y agoI’ve done it too, you get lots of free stuff in exchange for writing reviews. One would be stupid not to take advantage of that.
- jfk13 6y agoSo you get free stuff, and you poison the environment of reviews for the rest of us. I wish we could figure out some incentive for people -- both individually and corporately -- to behave less selfishly, but it seems to be a hard problem.
- bzb4 6y agoIt’s practically Darwinism—ignore reviews, or suffer.
- ebg13 6y agoAnother name for it is being maliciously or callously antisocial. I wish fewer people desired to tear apart the social fabric for short term personal gain. A world where people could trust each other would be a better world for everyone including you.
- dasudasu 6y agoI came across one of those kickback-for-5-star-reviews thing once. There is absolutely no way to report it to Amazon even with proof.
- sturgill 6y agoEven worse, I once had a terrible experience with a product. Arrived beat to hell and very clearly just a cheap product. I left a review (maybe my third review ever?) and it was removed. You can pay for good reviews, but legitimate complaints might be removed.
- Chris2048 6y ago> Doing this he completely destroys what reviews are meant to be TBH, I think reviews, more than code, wants to be free. Amazon do a fine service providing a platform for product reviews, but I worry all this data now belongs to a private biased entity. Open reviews, anyone?
- KorematsuFred 6y agoThat is why I think AmazonBasics, Amazon fulfilled and Amazon whitelists are getting incredibly popular. (I am a Costco shopper for similar reason. Only if a similar product is not available on Costco I go to Amazon).
- benrbray 6y agoAmazonBasics is no better, they just slap the Amazon brand onto cheaply manufactured goods with no quality control. For instance, the sponsored AmazonBasics cable for the search "USB to USB C" [1] is an extreme fire hazard due to non-compliance with the USB-C spec, as demonstrated by some reviewers. [1] https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Type-C-USB-Male-Cable/dp/B01GGKYN0A/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=usb%2Bto%2Busb%2Bc&qid=1597789218&refinements=p_89%3AAmazonBasics&rnid=2528832011&s=electronics&sr=1-1&th=1 https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Type-C-USB-Male-Cable/dp...
- DangitBobby 6y agoMy Amazon Basics HDMI cables from years ago are the only HDMI cables I've ever had that went bad
- giarc 6y agoThere was a post on HN awhile back that was a blog post by a lady that was involved. She got into it thinking it would be good to make some money but she ended up with so much crap that she couldn't give it away (or sell it). EDIT Here is the article https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nicolenguyen/her-amazon-purchases-are-real-the-reviews-are-fake https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nicolenguyen/her-amazon... And the corresponding HN discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21593480 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21593480
- mobilio 6y agoSame "review" business happens on Google Play, Apple AppStore and many more. Honestly any service with reviews can be faked.
- ksec 6y agoEspecially Apps with in App Digital Content ( Where the cost of that content is essentially free ), like Games. Where they give you an Item if you Vote.
- insickness 6y agoI posted a negative review of an inexpensive (~$10) electronic device on Amazon. A few weeks later, the seller contacted me with an offer of a $20 Amazon gift certificate to take it down. I didn't respond. A few days later, they offered $30, then $40, then $50.
- fock 6y agoyes, maybe I'd taken that deal. that's even better than the stupid seller once nagging me for 2 months (!) that I should take their shitty 20€-bluetooth-adapter (noisy af) for free, because they are such a nice company... Ehm yes (then bought Fiio for 5€ more (and worse reviews!), which is "a brand" (albeit a chinese one) and works very well).
- timbit42 6y agoI'd tell them, "OK, I'll change it", and change it to describe their bribe.
- jfk13 6y agoAmazon should provide a straightforward way for you to report that, and after confirming it, should ban the seller from their platform. They don't? OK, that tells us something.
- kumarvvr 6y agoThe problem with such drastic measures is that it is very difficult to actually prove that the seller did that. You could record the call as proof, but then your competitor can game the system by creating fake recordings and take you down. Such terminal punishments will be worse for the platform as a whole.
- elliekelly 6y ago> The problem with such drastic measures is that it is very difficult to actually prove that the seller did that. I would imagine most of these communications are happening over email. Maybe even over Amazon's own messaging system.
- dvfjsdhgfv 6y agoFor an example of really stupid reviews of this type, check this one out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c4mCXK9kIU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c4mCXK9kIU The people who provide the text templates for these bots really miss creativity. After reading just one or two you realize what's going on. It would be really easy to make them look more authentic just by not going over the top.
- searchableguy 6y agoMaybe the fake reviews are there to make you focus on the legit looking one or two reviews that are some part critical but have 4.5 star rating.
- tweedledee 6y agoI used to work in this space. It is incredibly easy to detect and counter. It just costs money. Amazons retail margins are too good to mess with. Customers are not leaving fast enough to make fixing it worth it. Every time you produce a model showing net present value going down due to fraud someone else will produce one that doesn’t. That guy gets promoted. Amazon is simply cashing in on its reputation. Once it’s gone you might as well buy from the Chinese source. People used to search stores for things they’d buy cheaper on Amazon. Now people are searching Amazon for things they’ll buy cheaper Alibaba. Personally, I’ve already shifted to buying DIY tools and supplies directly from China. I found the quality good enough. Some of the industrial consumables you can’t even buy retail in the US. For the high end stuff I buy direct from outlets. I don’t trust Amazon with that either. I could see a future where Amazon gets squeezed from both ends.
- saiya-jin 6y agoI am a minority but I never fully jumped on Amazon bandwagon. Compared to US, here in Switzerland they simply don't exist. Sending here from ie french or german site adds a massive postage fee on top of delay, and most of the times custom fee, so price skyrockets. Plus having warranty elsewhere ain't worth it in times when tons of stuff breaks quickly. One good thing that french amazon has - they can deliver to a network of 'post boxes' or compatible small shops to pick up the item usually within a week. That's basically about it, things ain't cheaper, and when ordering from china I don't have that doubt about quality - it is normally on the level of payment. These days, aliexpress and similar fill the needs.
- panpanna 6y agoAmazon is not nearly as dominant in EU as in the US. I think we will soon see large Chinese companies establishing themselves in Europe and take market share from both local stores and Amazon. Many large sellers on AliExpress have already started delivering from their European warehouses.
- fock 6y agofor basic, small stuff, which I actually need fast, at this point, I've switched to local stores, because as Amazon prices at this point (Europe) already include a heavy postage margin, the store is generally 2/3 of the price (up to around 10€ - e.g. kitchen hardware, paper stuff). That's especially apparent for stuff like USB-cables, where you have a hard-time finding (in the worst search experience on this planet) the few cost-competitive offers (on the marketplace, and they are ridiculous - like 1.5€ delivered with prime the next day). For "Amazon recommended", topsellers or their basic line, it's basically that if you need more than 1 cable (or buy one of the 3-packs...) you can order at a speciality store, pay 6€ shipping and 2€ for the cables (in much better quality - still marginally more expensive for one-off and "I need it now"-things, but as both things are not really sustainable, I consider this a bad habit as well....).
- ed_elliott_asc 6y agoWhen I use amazon reviews I look at what people complain about and work out if that would annoy me as well
- panpanna 6y agoSame here, I simply look at 1-star reviews and ignore that there are 100x 5-star reviews. Note that this won't work on sites where the seller can delay publishing your review (e.g AliExpress).
- kumarvvr 6y agoI really wonder what could be the solution to this. Reviews are a mainstay on the web. It's the underlying social experience of it. But given the untrustworthy nature of reviews in general, I hope there is some method to capture genuine reviews, filter out the noise and filter up the relevant ones. Perhaps tech like blockchains could help here, but their use is limited to anonymous identity. Its easy to create enough accounts to influence the system. The only feasible way seems to have direct user accounts that are tied to actual people, something like on facebook. But that is a privacy issue. Eventually, e-Commerce might devolve into brands and off brands, where the platform becomes irrelevant and other forms of advertising and marketing take control.
- vannevar 6y agoWithout a functioning trust network, reviews are meaningless. You cannot have both anonymity and healthy e-commerce. We're in a race to the bottom, and there is no "invisible hand" to right the ship. Government will ultimately have to step in with some kind of online ID system.
- kumarvvr 6y agoIt should be sufficient if the ID system has all the characteristics of a real world ID system, with just the real world link broken. Inability to easily create multiple IDs for 1 person, One ID linked to one individual, inability to easily use another persons ID, etc.
- vannevar 6y agoI think ID is an essential core function of government. Without it, for instance, there could be no justice system. I don't know that an ID system not grounded in the physical world is workable. Jurisdiction is ultimately determined by physical location.
- nowosad 6y agoEven with a sufficient ID system, what's to stop brands from bribing individuals for positive reviews?
- mitchbob 6y agoDo services like Fakespot [1] for evaluating reviews work and, if so, how? [1] https://www.fakespot.com/ https://www.fakespot.com/
- alexanderdou 6y agoMy own personal rule is now: > I don't buy anything I'll put in/on/around my body on Amazon (e.g. Vitamin supplements, Lotion/face sunscreen, Protein powder) Even if the brand is legit, I'm still not 100% confident that Amazon's co-mingling stock and switcheroos that can happen in the long supply chain will result in a "real" thing arriving at my door
- rightbyte 6y agoHow about eg. phone chargers or toasters? Cooking pots? The list of things that can seriously hurt you far extend edible goods.
- alexanderdou 6y agoI hadn't considered that! How are you thinking about danger from those types of items? Now that you've got me thinking, maybe like faulty wiring and my apartment burns down?
- wombat-man 6y agoI don't buy much from amazon these days, but yeah, definitely bought some higher end shaving cream that I later realized was probably not authentic. It's getting easier to buy direct from brands, and I feel safer buying this kinda stuff from target or whatever locally.
- alexanderdou 6y agoYeah, I think I'm noticing more brands offering direct purchasing on their own ecommerce portals. They're almost always worse experiences* but I figure it's worth it to support companies as they try to prop up retail channels other than Amazon. * Long aside: For example, I'm dipping my toe into learning how to write Python scripts and I wanted to write one to check if Cookies and Cream flavor was In Stock on Optimum Nutrition once a day or so, but I'm pretty sure the website doesn't work (or maybe just every flavor is out of stock)
- 6chars 6y ago
- arafa 6y agoI see people mentioning Fakespot, I also recommend ReviewMeta and use it often: https://reviewmeta.com/ https://reviewmeta.com/
- LeoPanthera 6y agoReviewMeta for that product: https://reviewmeta.com/amazon/B08431MPXD https://reviewmeta.com/amazon/B08431MPXD IMHO, they're too positive. If you scroll down, there's a lot of negative factors, but the above the fold summary is quite cheerful. The FakeSpot page is much clearer. https://www.fakespot.com/product/premium-omega-3-fish-oil-supplement-2400mg-burpless-fish-oil-omega-3-pills-w-1440mg-epa-dha-supports-heart-health-brain-function-immune-system-eye-health-lemon-flavor-non-gmo-120-softgels https://www.fakespot.com/product/premium-omega-3-fish-oil-su...
- kelnos 6y agoThe odd thing is that FakeSpot's "adjusted rating" is... the same as the actual rating.
- LeoPanthera 6y agoReviewMeta's is also the same, within the granularity of half a "star".
- arafa 6y agoThe UI isn't perfect, but the overall grade is fail even above the fold, which almost always means I won't buy the product.
- someonehere 6y agoWhen the description does not follow basic English grammar (it’s a run in sentence with no caps or punctuation), that’s a red flag for me. Also, the image looks really doctored and not something that seems legit. It doesn’t look sharp if that makes sense. Here’s the description for context: “ omega 3 fish oil supplements fatty EPA DHA omega3 burpless capsules supplement pills soft gels men best vitamins omega-3 wild-caught natural women pure humans no burp small extra strength mercury-free fish oil” If you buy this without reading everything in the product description, I’m sorry.
- ebg13 6y agoYou say "I'm sorry", but in context it really sounds like you're saying "fuck you". I like to consider things this way... At your local grocery store how vigilant are you that your orange juice carton might actually be filled with rat poison? Never crossed your mind? Very remote chance? Why? Because one item in a million is inspected by...who exactly? Think about how you'd feel if you found out one day that your grocery store actually gets its stock from a warehouse where sometimes cartons of OJ are replaced by rat poison on purpose by someone looking to make a buck at someone else's expense. You'd probably feel at least a little violated or betrayed. Aren't we all glad that we don't have to worry about shit like that at the grocery store? We shouldn't have to worry about shit like that from Amazon.
- SkyMarshal 6y agoAmazon's market has become a cesspool of many trash products with fly-by-night ALLCAPS Youtube-bro dropshipper "brands", if you can even call them that. Amazon's fast and affordable shipping is addicting, but I've nonetheless steadily shifted my purchasing patterns away from Amazon. Instead I tend to search Amazon (and Google, etc) to see what options are available, and buy them elsewhere if possible. Ideally directly from high-quality brands' websites, or alternately from smaller, specialized online retail outlets I trust more. Both tend to be more of a passion project and really care about what they're making and selling. I may not receive the item as fast, but I've adjusted to that and realize in 99% of cases I don't really need that instant gratification. In fact, fast shipping instant gratification seems more likely to tempt me into un-needed impulse purchases, and I'm better off without it. I make more planned and strategic purchases when I have to wait a little longer to receive them. Better for my personal financial planning and budgeting, and control of my lizard brain response.
- x87678r 6y agoYou get fast shipping? Amazon is usually slowest, takes 1-2 weeks if you're not Prime.
- amberacoustic 6y agoWhere we live, without prime, almost everything is £4.49 standard (4ish days), or £4.99 next day delivery.
- sjtindell 6y agoHaving Amazon Prime is such a constant in my life for so long now that I forgot it’s even a thing that you can in fact not have. How weird.
- TheJoeMan 6y agoI’m actually okay with waiting for shipping time too. What I can’t stand is not knowing the final price and hidden processing and shipping fees that make me just abandon the cart.
- Dahoon 6y agoThe link doesn't show any facts.
- dannykwells 6y agoOne site that has really risen due to this, imo, is Etsy - there you know the person making the product, you can see clear examples of their work, browse their website, look at their previous work, talk with them, etc. It's the opposite of the no-name Amazon experience. Definitely not cheap and has issues of its own, but worth checking out if, like me you thought it wasn't useful before.
- JaggedJax 6y agoI know of several companies auto listing thousands of foreign manufactured goods on Etsy. I don't know how prevalent this is, but I know not everything there is handmade nor is it all from small individual sellers.
- dannykwells 6y agoOk fair point. Never mind the world is just all garbage. Take to the woods!
- sq1020 6y agoSometimes I think writing reviews for products that I've purchased on Amazon is kind of a civic duty, a way to fight back against all the fakes and help our fellow shoppers.
- nbrempel 6y agoI find https://www.fakespot.com/ https://www.fakespot.com/ very useful if I’m shopping on Amazon.