9 ms·

Here's my sad Chinese sd card experience. The state of things there depresses me: When I was in Beijing I went to a regular store to buy an SD card for my cam

by aik 16y ago

Here's my sad Chinese sd card experience. The state of things there depresses me: When I was in Beijing I went to a regular store to buy an SD card for my camera. I asked them to let me try the cards in my camera before purchasing, so I did that. As I put a card in, all looked well, however when I proceeded to format the card, the issues arose. Regardless of the size of the card, 2, 4, or 8gb, the card would then instead read as 128mb. I mentioned this fact to them and they said sorry and let me try a new card. About 4 cards later the owner was nearly in tears and I was very frustrated. At that point the owner went to the back stockroom and gave me yet another card. This time it formatted fine and I purchased that one. It was such a sad experience. I felt very embarrassed and sorry for this owner. I don't know if the owner knew that they were scamming people, or if they were just being scammed themselves.

GrandMasterBirt 16y ago
+1 to the try-before-you-buy mentality. Will keep this in mind.
benguild 16y ago
That's really sad. Yet, it's probably mostly because all of the other stores are doing it and he/she can't compete without also selling the fake products. With no consumer protection or standards, this is what happens.
- bioh42_2 16y ago
  With no consumer protection or standards, this is what happens. Not always, some times a wild market eventually results in some of the strictest standards which also happen to be self enforced. I say sometimes but some economists believe, in the long term, this will always happen. I think reality is a bit more complicated, and in the very long term we're all dead. So for the duration of any one human life time, amazing self enforced standards sometimes arise form chaos. Those send to be far superior to anything government can do. But government is often quicker to come up with enforced standards.
  - schwabacher 16y ago
    This is interesting, and it makes sense to me that markets would work this way, but I am not sure I can think of any real examples. Something like Bar Associations comes close, but AFAIK they are legally mandated? Do you have any better recent or historical examples in mind?
    - hammock 16y ago
      How about the standard of putting the name of the product on the outside of the packaging? How about the gold standard? Also- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_standard#Examples_of_open_standards http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_standard#Examples_of_open_... http://media.mises.org/mp3/interviews/murphy1.mp3 http://media.mises.org/mp3/interviews/murphy1.mp3
    - bioh42_2 16y ago
      The best example I could find is about non-profits: http://nvs.sagepub.com/content/39/6/1057.abstract http://nvs.sagepub.com/content/39/6/1057.abstract But I think the same principles would apply to for-profits. The only other examples I have are anecdotal.
      - Florin_Andrei 16y ago
        non-profits ==> competition is not exactly red in tooth and claw ==> not a real "market" > The only other examples I have are anecdotal. Agreed.
        bioh42_2 16y ago
        non-profits ==> competition is not exactly red in tooth and claw Are you serious? Competition for donations between non-profits in my experience is often even more extreme then between for-profits. Do you have any evidence for softer competition among non-profits? Besides some non-profits are really phenomenally well functioning for-profits, which happen to have chosen a non-profit tax status. For example, in the US the non-profit AAA will quickly drop any pick-up truck company known not up to its standards. Mind you, all that's needed if for the truck to show up roughly on time and be reasonably courteous. Still that is quite something when you're in a bad spot and need those kind of services. And the AAA is popular enough that being on their shit list will cause sever financial pain to any pick-up truck services provider. But to join the AAA you have to pay a regular fee and they have all kinds of tie-ins with piles and piles of 3rd party service and goods providers. I don't begrudge them their non-profit tax status, but they are a damn well run and huge business.
- chernevik 16y ago
  Also, maybe b/c of a market of consumers who don't know what they're buying. I bet tech-savvy Chinese know where to buy safely. But maybe there are a lot of Chinese with poorly educations or orientation to tech, maybe just arrived in a city, or travelling there to shop. And they get stuck by this stuff, and maybe don't even realize it b/c they don't understand the gear, or because so much of it is banged up. (Maybe the camera is also faked.) It wouldn't surprise me that if a shopowner _was_ eventually caught at this, they'd simply close up and just move somewhere else. As a free market type, I have to admit that in those circumstances, I don't find this surprising. The "market response" here is for consumers to become more savvy and cautious, but the population posited here wouldn't have resources for that response. And they're forced to choose between wariness, and participation in this new economy with all this neat stuff. And that participation might be the only path out of poverty and ignorance. It's a crummy choice, and one that is likely to lead to all sorts of bitterness and suspicion of the merchant classes. It founds a similar ethic in the buyers, once they figure out enough to become sellers. The likeliest defense I can imagine for my free markets is, China isn't really a free market. Its development is artificially stimulated and guided by government policies, which are pushing investments at levels that aren't sustainable, and into projects that probably won't return. A less hyper development might give consumers more opportunity to get up the learning curve, and lower (and probably more realistic) expectations of what they can afford. Wow, tldr: Govt. accelerated hyper-growth pushes innovation faster than the least informed consumers can manage.
  - bluedanieru 16y ago
    So, to sum up, poor quality control in the absence of government regulation is the result of too much government regulation. There are folks who want to solve every problem with government-led solutions. They are often wrong. Then there are people whose response to everything is cutting taxes and privatizing institutions. They are often wrong. What you have in common (and lately I am beginning to think these two groups have a lot in common) is whenever anyone can name an example of your ideology breaking down in some way as it has here, your immediately come out with a No-True-Scotsman style of rebuke. Why is it so unacceptable that a pure free market might not work perfectly? And, the typical consumer anywhere would fall for this. This isn't an example of ignorant Chinese being duped by unscrupulous merchants. If ignorance alone is the culprit then this should be happening everywhere. Want to take a guess why it isn't?
demallien 16y ago
I would say the owner was also being scammed, otherwise you wouldn't have been allowed to try the card before buying it, or at least a working card would have come out after the first try failed...
- aik 16y ago
  Yeah, though I doubt very many people format the card when trying it (the size did look correct beforehand). Though, he did let me try several cards so maybe you're right. He was also selling (very clearly to me anyway) fake iPod Nano devices. Did he know those were fake? Maybe he's never seen real ones? To me the whole thing looked so cheaply made and the UI is incredibly ugly.
boscomutunga 16y ago
I once had an experience where i was sold a fake piece of equipment.I proceeded to ask for warranty but the store owner told me they don't give warranties for such type of products.So i insisted for a warranty.Surprisingly he pulled out the original and authentic version and wrote me a warranty.apparently they seem to know that some are genuine and some are counterfeit.

by aik 16y ago

GrandMasterBirt 16y ago

+1 to the try-before-you-buy mentality. Will keep this in mind.

benguild 16y ago

That's really sad. Yet, it's probably mostly because all of the other stores are doing it and he/she can't compete without also selling the fake products. With no consumer protection or standards, this is what happens.

bioh42_2 16y ago
With no consumer protection or standards, this is what happens. Not always, some times a wild market eventually results in some of the strictest standards which also happen to be self enforced. I say sometimes but some economists believe, in the long term, this will always happen. I think reality is a bit more complicated, and in the very long term we're all dead. So for the duration of any one human life time, amazing self enforced standards sometimes arise form chaos. Those send to be far superior to anything government can do. But government is often quicker to come up with enforced standards.
- schwabacher 16y ago
  This is interesting, and it makes sense to me that markets would work this way, but I am not sure I can think of any real examples. Something like Bar Associations comes close, but AFAIK they are legally mandated? Do you have any better recent or historical examples in mind?
  - hammock 16y ago
    How about the standard of putting the name of the product on the outside of the packaging? How about the gold standard? Also- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_standard#Examples_of_open_standards http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_standard#Examples_of_open_... http://media.mises.org/mp3/interviews/murphy1.mp3 http://media.mises.org/mp3/interviews/murphy1.mp3
  - bioh42_2 16y ago
    The best example I could find is about non-profits: http://nvs.sagepub.com/content/39/6/1057.abstract http://nvs.sagepub.com/content/39/6/1057.abstract But I think the same principles would apply to for-profits. The only other examples I have are anecdotal.
    - Florin_Andrei 16y ago
      non-profits ==> competition is not exactly red in tooth and claw ==> not a real "market" > The only other examples I have are anecdotal. Agreed.
      - bioh42_2 16y ago
        non-profits ==> competition is not exactly red in tooth and claw Are you serious? Competition for donations between non-profits in my experience is often even more extreme then between for-profits. Do you have any evidence for softer competition among non-profits? Besides some non-profits are really phenomenally well functioning for-profits, which happen to have chosen a non-profit tax status. For example, in the US the non-profit AAA will quickly drop any pick-up truck company known not up to its standards. Mind you, all that's needed if for the truck to show up roughly on time and be reasonably courteous. Still that is quite something when you're in a bad spot and need those kind of services. And the AAA is popular enough that being on their shit list will cause sever financial pain to any pick-up truck services provider. But to join the AAA you have to pay a regular fee and they have all kinds of tie-ins with piles and piles of 3rd party service and goods providers. I don't begrudge them their non-profit tax status, but they are a damn well run and huge business.
chernevik 16y ago
Also, maybe b/c of a market of consumers who don't know what they're buying. I bet tech-savvy Chinese know where to buy safely. But maybe there are a lot of Chinese with poorly educations or orientation to tech, maybe just arrived in a city, or travelling there to shop. And they get stuck by this stuff, and maybe don't even realize it b/c they don't understand the gear, or because so much of it is banged up. (Maybe the camera is also faked.) It wouldn't surprise me that if a shopowner _was_ eventually caught at this, they'd simply close up and just move somewhere else. As a free market type, I have to admit that in those circumstances, I don't find this surprising. The "market response" here is for consumers to become more savvy and cautious, but the population posited here wouldn't have resources for that response. And they're forced to choose between wariness, and participation in this new economy with all this neat stuff. And that participation might be the only path out of poverty and ignorance. It's a crummy choice, and one that is likely to lead to all sorts of bitterness and suspicion of the merchant classes. It founds a similar ethic in the buyers, once they figure out enough to become sellers. The likeliest defense I can imagine for my free markets is, China isn't really a free market. Its development is artificially stimulated and guided by government policies, which are pushing investments at levels that aren't sustainable, and into projects that probably won't return. A less hyper development might give consumers more opportunity to get up the learning curve, and lower (and probably more realistic) expectations of what they can afford. Wow, tldr: Govt. accelerated hyper-growth pushes innovation faster than the least informed consumers can manage.
- bluedanieru 16y ago
  So, to sum up, poor quality control in the absence of government regulation is the result of too much government regulation. There are folks who want to solve every problem with government-led solutions. They are often wrong. Then there are people whose response to everything is cutting taxes and privatizing institutions. They are often wrong. What you have in common (and lately I am beginning to think these two groups have a lot in common) is whenever anyone can name an example of your ideology breaking down in some way as it has here, your immediately come out with a No-True-Scotsman style of rebuke. Why is it so unacceptable that a pure free market might not work perfectly? And, the typical consumer anywhere would fall for this. This isn't an example of ignorant Chinese being duped by unscrupulous merchants. If ignorance alone is the culprit then this should be happening everywhere. Want to take a guess why it isn't?

demallien 16y ago

I would say the owner was also being scammed, otherwise you wouldn't have been allowed to try the card before buying it, or at least a working card would have come out after the first try failed...

aik 16y ago
Yeah, though I doubt very many people format the card when trying it (the size did look correct beforehand). Though, he did let me try several cards so maybe you're right. He was also selling (very clearly to me anyway) fake iPod Nano devices. Did he know those were fake? Maybe he's never seen real ones? To me the whole thing looked so cheaply made and the UI is incredibly ugly.

boscomutunga 16y ago

I once had an experience where i was sold a fake piece of equipment.I proceeded to ask for warranty but the store owner told me they don't give warranties for such type of products.So i insisted for a warranty.Surprisingly he pulled out the original and authentic version and wrote me a warranty.apparently they seem to know that some are genuine and some are counterfeit.