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>you're frightened that another company might get control and... offer better terms than we have right now? While some people here might fall for this simple p

>you're frightened that another company might get control and... offer better terms than we have right now? While some people here might fall for this simple propaganda, I doubt the courts will. It is totally expected of Epic that they will at the same time make the claim about "freedom" and "choice" while signing exclusive deals so that customers are required to install the Epic store if they wish to play certain games. If the real issue is my freedom, then let me play Fortnite on the App store thanks. But it's not about my freedom. It's about your $$$. You're certainly free to do so, and free to say whatever bullshit you think will help you, but you're not going to get a free pass from everybody here. >What specifically is the horror scenario that you're frightened of? Really? What sort of horror scenarios have happened with game installers on PCs and Android? Root kits. Spyware. Password capture. Camera activation. And you know this, so all you are doing is letting us know that you think we are stupid.

danShumway 6y ago
> while signing exclusive deals so that customers are required to install the Epic store if they wish to play certain games. A surprising number of people on Hackernews don't understand how Apple Arcade works. This isn't just specific to the mobile market. As an Open advocate and critic of DRM, it's been frustrating to watch gamers suddenly get very concerned about store choice and exclusives over the past few years, after over a decade of watching them dismiss the same arguments against Steam. I'm not going to read too far into that inconsistency, because I feel like doing so would skirt HN policies. But I will say that if you're worried about exclusives, giving more platform control to users and developers weakens exclusives, it doesn't strengthen them. > then let me play Fortnite on the App store thanks Epic didn't take Fortnite off of the App store. If it's about your freedom, then talk to the people who did take it off. > What sort of horror scenarios have happened with game installers on PCs and Android? Root kits. Spyware. Password capture. Camera activation. If you're going to try and argue to me that the games PC market would be better if we had fewer stores, then I need to see some seriously better arguments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24153897 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24153897 I do not believe reality in any way backs up the argument that giving users control over what code runs on their devices has hurt the games market or made it worse for consumers -- even with the increased risk of bad actors.
- lowbloodsugar 6y ago
  >Epic didn't take Fortnite off of the App store. If it's about your freedom, then talk to the people who did take it off. Lol. Ok. Thanks for sharing your opinion of us, once again.
- Spivak 6y ago
  > If you're going to try and argue to me that the games PC market would be better if we had fewer stores. If you hang around gaming forums you'll see this echoed plenty. If I could buy every single game ever through Steam I would without hesitation. I don't want Origin or the Epic store but I don't get the choice. I mean this isn't a super uncommon sentiment. Everyone has a preference but not everyone agrees. But regardless fragmentation hurts everyone. I would be totally fine with multiple stores on iOS devices on the condition that every app is available on every store for the same price-ish (like you can't snub a store by making it 1000x because that effectively takes away choice).
  - danShumway 6y ago
    > If I could buy every single game ever through Steam I would without hesitation. I don't want Origin or the Epic store but I don't get the choice. I know that some gamers feel this way, but I wholeheartedly disagree. Epic's entry into the market has been good for the PC games industry[0]. We have more games now from more developers covering more diverse genres. We've even managed to pull a few exclusives off of consoles and back onto PC. As to your choice, I bring this up in another comment[1], but people should focus less on the percentage of the market they have access to, and more on the overall size of the market itself. You do have a choice, you could buy all of your games through Steam and ignore the games on every other store. The only difference is that now you know what you're missing. Before, you couldn't see the games that weren't being made or ported. Yes, it stinks to have some games exclusive to one storefront. I understand that, as someone who refuses to install DRM on my computers, I have been struggling to deal with Steam-exclusive games for a long time. I know the pain. But having a diverse market of storefronts means that there are a ton of new games that exist that wouldn't otherwise exist. And even if you only get access to some of those games, that's still better than having none of them. Now, if you want to talk about ending exclusives entirely, I'm not opposed to that goal. But a diverse market is a prerequisite for a federated market. How do you feel today about the Android games that don't come to iOS specifically because of Apple's terms? How do you feel about the exclusives Apple is signing for the Apple Arcade right now? Having one storefront doesn't get rid of exclusives; it just means you've traded an exclusive storefront problem for an exclusive market problem. [0]: https://www.pcworld.com/article/3487735/a-year-in-the-epic-games-stores-fight-against-steam-has-made-all-pc-gaming-better.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/3487735/a-year-in-the-epic-g... [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24192204 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24192204

danShumway 6y ago

> while signing exclusive deals so that customers are required to install the Epic store if they wish to play certain games. A surprising number of people on Hackernews don't understand how Apple Arcade works. This isn't just specific to the mobile market. As an Open advocate and critic of DRM, it's been frustrating to watch gamers suddenly get very concerned about store choice and exclusives over the past few years, after over a decade of watching them dismiss the same arguments against Steam. I'm not going to read too far into that inconsistency, because I feel like doing so would skirt HN policies. But I will say that if you're worried about exclusives, giving more platform control to users and developers weakens exclusives, it doesn't strengthen them. > then let me play Fortnite on the App store thanks Epic didn't take Fortnite off of the App store. If it's about your freedom, then talk to the people who did take it off. > What sort of horror scenarios have happened with game installers on PCs and Android? Root kits. Spyware. Password capture. Camera activation. If you're going to try and argue to me that the games PC market would be better if we had fewer stores, then I need to see some seriously better arguments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24153897 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24153897 I do not believe reality in any way backs up the argument that giving users control over what code runs on their devices has hurt the games market or made it worse for consumers -- even with the increased risk of bad actors.

lowbloodsugar 6y ago
>Epic didn't take Fortnite off of the App store. If it's about your freedom, then talk to the people who did take it off. Lol. Ok. Thanks for sharing your opinion of us, once again.
Spivak 6y ago
> If you're going to try and argue to me that the games PC market would be better if we had fewer stores. If you hang around gaming forums you'll see this echoed plenty. If I could buy every single game ever through Steam I would without hesitation. I don't want Origin or the Epic store but I don't get the choice. I mean this isn't a super uncommon sentiment. Everyone has a preference but not everyone agrees. But regardless fragmentation hurts everyone. I would be totally fine with multiple stores on iOS devices on the condition that every app is available on every store for the same price-ish (like you can't snub a store by making it 1000x because that effectively takes away choice).
- danShumway 6y ago
  > If I could buy every single game ever through Steam I would without hesitation. I don't want Origin or the Epic store but I don't get the choice. I know that some gamers feel this way, but I wholeheartedly disagree. Epic's entry into the market has been good for the PC games industry[0]. We have more games now from more developers covering more diverse genres. We've even managed to pull a few exclusives off of consoles and back onto PC. As to your choice, I bring this up in another comment[1], but people should focus less on the percentage of the market they have access to, and more on the overall size of the market itself. You do have a choice, you could buy all of your games through Steam and ignore the games on every other store. The only difference is that now you know what you're missing. Before, you couldn't see the games that weren't being made or ported. Yes, it stinks to have some games exclusive to one storefront. I understand that, as someone who refuses to install DRM on my computers, I have been struggling to deal with Steam-exclusive games for a long time. I know the pain. But having a diverse market of storefronts means that there are a ton of new games that exist that wouldn't otherwise exist. And even if you only get access to some of those games, that's still better than having none of them. Now, if you want to talk about ending exclusives entirely, I'm not opposed to that goal. But a diverse market is a prerequisite for a federated market. How do you feel today about the Android games that don't come to iOS specifically because of Apple's terms? How do you feel about the exclusives Apple is signing for the Apple Arcade right now? Having one storefront doesn't get rid of exclusives; it just means you've traded an exclusive storefront problem for an exclusive market problem. [0]: https://www.pcworld.com/article/3487735/a-year-in-the-epic-games-stores-fight-against-steam-has-made-all-pc-gaming-better.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/3487735/a-year-in-the-epic-g... [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24192204 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24192204