7 ms·

Inviting employees back to the office – if you dare

33 points by ohjeez 6y ago

nickff 6y ago
It seems like these requirements will lead to layoffs; as some companies will find it easier/faster to get rid of staff than to change their modus operandi.
- ohjeez 6y ago
  Not to mention that with so many people laid off, Management easily can think, "We'll just hire new people. It's a buyer's market." ...Though I'm not sure it actually _is_.
  - nip180 6y ago
    The more skilled the labor the less likely they are unemployed, so it depends on who you’re hiring.
  - umvi 6y ago
    I'll gladly sign up for a FAANG job to take someone's spot who is overly fearful of infection. The salary is just too good and is totally worth the risk.
sicnus 6y ago
I've actually enjoyed working from home for the most part over the past 5-6 months. My only main issue is that I tend to work MORE from home as you don't have the normal water cooler interruptions or group BS sessions about football or sports or... this or that. I'm hoping I don't ever have to go back to the office. Worked from home for a few years in the old days but wasn't really disciplined to be very productive. Now I am.
- zepearl 6y ago
  Working from home since ~6.5 months => I liked it a lot at the beginning (I wore pants on one day since 1.March, otherwise shorts all the time until today) but now I wish that I could go back to the office: I really miss being able to talk from time to time with somebody "real", having lunch in the canteen, seeing something different than my own walls, etc... :P
  - bluntfang 6y ago
    just to clarify, what you desire is not specific to an office. you can have all of those things in a local community and many people who were remote before covid (including myself) were doing that.
    - dorkwood 6y ago
      Can you be more specific about what you mean by the local community? Are you striking up conversations with random people on the street, or are you volunteering, or some other such thing?
      - bluntfang 6y ago
        yes. having people around you to interact with does not require working in an office. people on the street. people at the dog park. people at the coffee shop. people bagging your groceries. people are everywhere (generalization , but if you browse HN you're probably not in an extreme rural area)
    - Trav5 6y ago
      I agree. Sit in your front yard and work from there if the weather is nice. You may find more people routinely walk by than you thought. Say hello. No need to drive to "your community". Especially now that more people are working from home.
  - amiga_500 6y ago
    Whenever post-covid comes, if you WFH you can meet a local friend for lunch. Don't conflate covid-WFH and non-covid-WFH as a reason to dislike general WFH.
- Cookingboy 6y ago
  I wonder how skewed these discussions are on HackerNews. All the surveys from big companies show that an overwhelming percentage of people would love a mix of WFH and going to office in the future. I really think HN is just super introverted or many were stuck in some toxic office culture. I've always liked my coworkers in the various places I worked and being in their physical presence at work is a pro for me, not a liability.
  - epicureanideal 6y ago
    For me, working from home isn't too bad, but not being able to go anywhere else either is very unpleasant.
  - cvhashim 6y ago
    Agreed. I’ve been lucky to work with great co-workers that I’m still friends with even after leaving. I think a mix of WFH plus going into the office 3 or 4 times per week would be ideal.
- postalrat 6y ago
  Replace "normal water cooler interruptions" with "posting to hn" and here we are.
  - SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
    I feel like we all did that before as well.
mywacaday 6y ago
I changed jobs 6 weeks ago. Left one job, took 4 weeks off then went back to the same bedroom with a different laptop to start the new job. It's not easy, everyone is really helpful but there is no substitute for real human contact and bonding.
- bootlooped 6y ago
  I like my coworkers and I miss seeing them. At least I have my girlfriend living with me, but seeing and talking to only one person most days is not enough for a healthy, fulfilling life. I've only had limited contact with friends due to the pandemic. They eliminated my desk at the office, to save space and thus money, so now I just have to make the best of a bad situation.
  - WWLink 6y ago
    Yeah, totally agree with ya. Stay strong! The good thing is this won't be long term. Once stuff returns to normal I'm going to get a gym membership. lol.
zepearl 6y ago
Did anybody ever (have to) discuss "responsibility/accountability" about getting back to work in an office? Meaning: if my boss would tell me "come back to work at the office" and I would reply "nah, I'm scared that I might get infected" but then my boss would basically in/directly force me to, wouldn't my boss/company become responsible/accountable for me getting ill (if I and maybe some of my colleagues would then get ill)? I admit that it might then become a quite complex situation (e.g. demonstrate through tracing that the spread occurred inthe office, what were the consequences, etc...), but probably a boss/company should think twice about pushing its employees to go back to the office, or not?
- nip180 6y ago
  I don’t think the employer is accountable for infectious diseases that are transmitted in the workplace, given that a minimum safety standard is meet. I have, for example, not heard of any liability concerns with teachers returning to the classroom.
  - Rebelgecko 6y ago
    I'm not sure if there's any relation between this and liability, but worker's comp is accepting claims claims from people who can plausibly explain that they got COVID at work
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      It's not super related. Worker's comp generally pays out for all injuries, even if the company did everything right to prevent them; it's more accident insurance than liability insurance.
  - krisoft 6y ago
    I'm no lawyer, but if there are no liability concerns then why are they proposing to legislate liability waiving laws? https://www.businessinsider.com/gop-liability-protection-provision-businesses-workers-coronavirus-aid-bill-terrible-2020-8?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/gop-liability-protection-pro...
notyourday 6y ago
It talks about cubicals. It says "cubicals are coming to an end". The authors aren't familiar with the open offices...
nonamenoslogan 6y ago
We've been back since May, no changes other than face-coverings required while in the general building (but not always at your own desk). AFAIAC we locked down too early in my neck of the woods, the infection rate is only going upward at this point, but another "lock-down" isn't going to happen.
- ohjeez 6y ago
  Where are you geographically?
beat 6y ago
I'm one of those who probably cannot be convinced to go back to the office. Why would I want to go back to losing an hour and a half a day to commuting? What problem does this solve for me? I find most aspects of my job are actually easier when working remotely - in particular, being able to get people to leave me the hell alone for those two or three hour blocks of concentration. I used to have to go hide at the office in order to work without someone asking me a question every fifteen minutes.
- agrippanux 6y ago
  When I was in the Bay Area, I was commuting 2-2.5 hours a day from Lafayette to the city, on BART, for almost 10 years. I moved to San Diego and the commute was still an hour+ most days (20 minutes there, 45+ minutes back). Every time I think, well would be nice to go back into the office, I think about all the wasted time just getting to one and I am disabused of the notion rather quickly.
  - ttul 6y ago
    I'm saving 3-4 hours a day now. There's no way I'm going back to commuting. At most, I'll go in a day or two a week for meetings and face time.
- scatters 6y ago
  How do you prevent people interrupting you on chat?
  - vidanay 6y ago
    Close the chat client?
  - beat 6y ago
    I can't. But I do find they're less likely to interrupt in chat than they are in a physical space. Also, it's a lot easier for me to finish what I'm doing before answering a chat than it is to finish what I'm doing and answer someone standing next to me. Although I'm known for putting a finger up in the air at them and making them wait.
bluedino 6y ago
I work in a hospital. 90% of the administrative staff is still here, in our offices. Those of us who didn't get laid off never left. Sure, we get asked if we 'have any symptoms', have our temperatures are taken at the front desk, and we're required to wear a mask going in/out of the building...but other than that, it's business as usual. The office my wife works in, they won't let anyone come back. They can work from home, which is fine-but she's tired of being cooped up. She had to sneak in on a weekend to get some devices for testing. They are considering opening back up in the fall, and would be requiring everyone to wear a mask the entire time they are in the building. We're going out to eat in restaurants again, we're all still going grocery shopping (where I've never see anyone cleaning anything), malls are open, so what's the big deal with going back to work?
- WWLink 6y ago
  > We're going out to eat in restaurants again, we're all still going grocery shopping (where I've never see anyone cleaning anything), malls are open, so what's the big deal with going back to work? You're exposing yourself to those places for very brief periods of time. Why should I equate feeling safe walking into a building with open doors and windows for less than 20 minutes, to sitting in a closed office with HVAC running all day for 8+ hours? Moreso, why should I feel obligated to go back to the office because your wife is tired of being cooped up? I'm fine with clingy extroverts going to the office if they need to socialize that badly. I'd rather not be demanded to make a return just because.
  - lordCarbonFiber 6y ago
    I fully agree that opening up the offices before there's a vaccine is very unsafe and shame on any company that brings people back early but it's not just extroverts that want to go back to the office. Speaking as an introvert with social anxiety basically 100% of my physical interaction with other humans happens in the office and WFH in my tiny nyc apartment has been miserable (better than being sick for sure, but not something I'd do for one day longer than required). Especially in tech, isolation is real and we can push for caution while also recognizing the human cost of cost of having people at home (for my company they're increasing tele-therapy resources; maybe as this stretches on more and better solutions will be discovered)
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
matz1 6y ago
I don't want to back to the office has nothing to do with covid. After all I never stop going to the gym, restaurant all these time, albeit secretly. Its that I prefer to work from home. My job doesn't require anything thing that can only be provided in the office anyway.
lillesvin 6y ago
Before March I never truly questioned if commuting by bus 2-3 hours a day was really worth it. (By car it's only a 30 minute drive to work but I don't drive and I have no desire to, and the bus lines here are really dumb. I just used the time to sleep.) Now that I have that time to spend with my family they'll have to open up an office near me or arrange for a taxi to pick me up and drop me off every day if they ever want me coming regularly into the office again. Last I was there I picked up all my things so I don't even have any designated physical space there anymore, and I love it.

33 points by ohjeez 6y ago

It seems like these requirements will lead to layoffs; as some companies will find it easier/faster to get rid of staff than to change their modus operandi.

ohjeez 6y ago
Not to mention that with so many people laid off, Management easily can think, "We'll just hire new people. It's a buyer's market." ...Though I'm not sure it actually _is_.
- nip180 6y ago
  The more skilled the labor the less likely they are unemployed, so it depends on who you’re hiring.
- umvi 6y ago
  I'll gladly sign up for a FAANG job to take someone's spot who is overly fearful of infection. The salary is just too good and is totally worth the risk.

sicnus 6y ago

I've actually enjoyed working from home for the most part over the past 5-6 months. My only main issue is that I tend to work MORE from home as you don't have the normal water cooler interruptions or group BS sessions about football or sports or... this or that. I'm hoping I don't ever have to go back to the office. Worked from home for a few years in the old days but wasn't really disciplined to be very productive. Now I am.

zepearl 6y ago
Working from home since ~6.5 months => I liked it a lot at the beginning (I wore pants on one day since 1.March, otherwise shorts all the time until today) but now I wish that I could go back to the office: I really miss being able to talk from time to time with somebody "real", having lunch in the canteen, seeing something different than my own walls, etc... :P
- bluntfang 6y ago
  just to clarify, what you desire is not specific to an office. you can have all of those things in a local community and many people who were remote before covid (including myself) were doing that.
  - dorkwood 6y ago
    Can you be more specific about what you mean by the local community? Are you striking up conversations with random people on the street, or are you volunteering, or some other such thing?
    - bluntfang 6y ago
      yes. having people around you to interact with does not require working in an office. people on the street. people at the dog park. people at the coffee shop. people bagging your groceries. people are everywhere (generalization , but if you browse HN you're probably not in an extreme rural area)
  - Trav5 6y ago
    I agree. Sit in your front yard and work from there if the weather is nice. You may find more people routinely walk by than you thought. Say hello. No need to drive to "your community". Especially now that more people are working from home.
- amiga_500 6y ago
  Whenever post-covid comes, if you WFH you can meet a local friend for lunch. Don't conflate covid-WFH and non-covid-WFH as a reason to dislike general WFH.
Cookingboy 6y ago
I wonder how skewed these discussions are on HackerNews. All the surveys from big companies show that an overwhelming percentage of people would love a mix of WFH and going to office in the future. I really think HN is just super introverted or many were stuck in some toxic office culture. I've always liked my coworkers in the various places I worked and being in their physical presence at work is a pro for me, not a liability.
- epicureanideal 6y ago
  For me, working from home isn't too bad, but not being able to go anywhere else either is very unpleasant.
- cvhashim 6y ago
  Agreed. I’ve been lucky to work with great co-workers that I’m still friends with even after leaving. I think a mix of WFH plus going into the office 3 or 4 times per week would be ideal.
postalrat 6y ago
Replace "normal water cooler interruptions" with "posting to hn" and here we are.
- SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
  I feel like we all did that before as well.

mywacaday 6y ago

I changed jobs 6 weeks ago. Left one job, took 4 weeks off then went back to the same bedroom with a different laptop to start the new job. It's not easy, everyone is really helpful but there is no substitute for real human contact and bonding.

bootlooped 6y ago
I like my coworkers and I miss seeing them. At least I have my girlfriend living with me, but seeing and talking to only one person most days is not enough for a healthy, fulfilling life. I've only had limited contact with friends due to the pandemic. They eliminated my desk at the office, to save space and thus money, so now I just have to make the best of a bad situation.
- WWLink 6y ago
  Yeah, totally agree with ya. Stay strong! The good thing is this won't be long term. Once stuff returns to normal I'm going to get a gym membership. lol.

zepearl 6y ago

Did anybody ever (have to) discuss "responsibility/accountability" about getting back to work in an office? Meaning: if my boss would tell me "come back to work at the office" and I would reply "nah, I'm scared that I might get infected" but then my boss would basically in/directly force me to, wouldn't my boss/company become responsible/accountable for me getting ill (if I and maybe some of my colleagues would then get ill)? I admit that it might then become a quite complex situation (e.g. demonstrate through tracing that the spread occurred inthe office, what were the consequences, etc...), but probably a boss/company should think twice about pushing its employees to go back to the office, or not?

nip180 6y ago
I don’t think the employer is accountable for infectious diseases that are transmitted in the workplace, given that a minimum safety standard is meet. I have, for example, not heard of any liability concerns with teachers returning to the classroom.
- Rebelgecko 6y ago
  I'm not sure if there's any relation between this and liability, but worker's comp is accepting claims claims from people who can plausibly explain that they got COVID at work
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    It's not super related. Worker's comp generally pays out for all injuries, even if the company did everything right to prevent them; it's more accident insurance than liability insurance.
- krisoft 6y ago
  I'm no lawyer, but if there are no liability concerns then why are they proposing to legislate liability waiving laws? https://www.businessinsider.com/gop-liability-protection-provision-businesses-workers-coronavirus-aid-bill-terrible-2020-8?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/gop-liability-protection-pro...

notyourday 6y ago

It talks about cubicals. It says "cubicals are coming to an end". The authors aren't familiar with the open offices...

nonamenoslogan 6y ago

We've been back since May, no changes other than face-coverings required while in the general building (but not always at your own desk). AFAIAC we locked down too early in my neck of the woods, the infection rate is only going upward at this point, but another "lock-down" isn't going to happen.

ohjeez 6y ago
Where are you geographically?

beat 6y ago

I'm one of those who probably cannot be convinced to go back to the office. Why would I want to go back to losing an hour and a half a day to commuting? What problem does this solve for me? I find most aspects of my job are actually easier when working remotely - in particular, being able to get people to leave me the hell alone for those two or three hour blocks of concentration. I used to have to go hide at the office in order to work without someone asking me a question every fifteen minutes.

agrippanux 6y ago
When I was in the Bay Area, I was commuting 2-2.5 hours a day from Lafayette to the city, on BART, for almost 10 years. I moved to San Diego and the commute was still an hour+ most days (20 minutes there, 45+ minutes back). Every time I think, well would be nice to go back into the office, I think about all the wasted time just getting to one and I am disabused of the notion rather quickly.
- ttul 6y ago
  I'm saving 3-4 hours a day now. There's no way I'm going back to commuting. At most, I'll go in a day or two a week for meetings and face time.
scatters 6y ago
How do you prevent people interrupting you on chat?
- vidanay 6y ago
  Close the chat client?
- beat 6y ago
  I can't. But I do find they're less likely to interrupt in chat than they are in a physical space. Also, it's a lot easier for me to finish what I'm doing before answering a chat than it is to finish what I'm doing and answer someone standing next to me. Although I'm known for putting a finger up in the air at them and making them wait.

bluedino 6y ago

I work in a hospital. 90% of the administrative staff is still here, in our offices. Those of us who didn't get laid off never left. Sure, we get asked if we 'have any symptoms', have our temperatures are taken at the front desk, and we're required to wear a mask going in/out of the building...but other than that, it's business as usual. The office my wife works in, they won't let anyone come back. They can work from home, which is fine-but she's tired of being cooped up. She had to sneak in on a weekend to get some devices for testing. They are considering opening back up in the fall, and would be requiring everyone to wear a mask the entire time they are in the building. We're going out to eat in restaurants again, we're all still going grocery shopping (where I've never see anyone cleaning anything), malls are open, so what's the big deal with going back to work?

WWLink 6y ago
> We're going out to eat in restaurants again, we're all still going grocery shopping (where I've never see anyone cleaning anything), malls are open, so what's the big deal with going back to work? You're exposing yourself to those places for very brief periods of time. Why should I equate feeling safe walking into a building with open doors and windows for less than 20 minutes, to sitting in a closed office with HVAC running all day for 8+ hours? Moreso, why should I feel obligated to go back to the office because your wife is tired of being cooped up? I'm fine with clingy extroverts going to the office if they need to socialize that badly. I'd rather not be demanded to make a return just because.
- lordCarbonFiber 6y ago
  I fully agree that opening up the offices before there's a vaccine is very unsafe and shame on any company that brings people back early but it's not just extroverts that want to go back to the office. Speaking as an introvert with social anxiety basically 100% of my physical interaction with other humans happens in the office and WFH in my tiny nyc apartment has been miserable (better than being sick for sure, but not something I'd do for one day longer than required). Especially in tech, isolation is real and we can push for caution while also recognizing the human cost of cost of having people at home (for my company they're increasing tele-therapy resources; maybe as this stretches on more and better solutions will be discovered)

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

matz1 6y ago

I don't want to back to the office has nothing to do with covid. After all I never stop going to the gym, restaurant all these time, albeit secretly. Its that I prefer to work from home. My job doesn't require anything thing that can only be provided in the office anyway.

lillesvin 6y ago

Before March I never truly questioned if commuting by bus 2-3 hours a day was really worth it. (By car it's only a 30 minute drive to work but I don't drive and I have no desire to, and the bus lines here are really dumb. I just used the time to sleep.) Now that I have that time to spend with my family they'll have to open up an office near me or arrange for a taxi to pick me up and drop me off every day if they ever want me coming regularly into the office again. Last I was there I picked up all my things so I don't even have any designated physical space there anymore, and I love it.