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What we need is to stop consuming animals and animal products, or we’ll keep having economy destroying pandemics. Not to mention the obvious problem that farmin
by geddy 6y ago
What we need is to stop consuming animals and animal products, or we’ll keep having economy destroying pandemics. Not to mention the obvious problem that farming is horrendous for the animals. Animals aren’t some inanimate object.
- oblio 6y agoWe need to be realistic. Reeducating several billion people from something very addictive, culturally engrained and with no direct negative effects for consumers is almost impossible.
- momokoko 6y agoGlobal pandemics are not direct negative impacts? We have several documented(h1n1 etc) significant loss of life events due to animal agriculture. No more silent downvoting. People are dying and will continue to die as these continue to happen until grown adults get some self discipline and stop eating meat.
- deelowe 6y agoI think the parent's point is well proven your exact example. There is a significant portion of the globe who think the pandemic isn't real or was caused by humans.
- oblio 6y agoYou basically read my mind. I didn't want to say it outright to avoid this hot topic.
- crucio 6y agoTypical response of HN to downvote comments like the parents, just because it's doesn't suit their own lifestyle.
- oblio 6y agoI didn't downvote him but I think I know why he was downvoted. Denying human reality doesn't work. Remember the Prohibition?
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- crucio 6y agoRemember when segregation was normal? Remember when slavery was normal? Remember when women had no rights? A growing and large amount of people believe abuse against animals and the environment follows on perfectly. You can be part of the change or blindly ignore it because it doesn't suit how you were brought up.
- huffmsa 6y agoAnd we're not some magical creature free from biological needs. Eating other animals is what got us here. Until we can print actual, chemically identical meat on a conveyor belt, our reliance on animals will continue.
- shshdhduxbx 6y agoThis is always said but it's just not true. Unless you kill the animal yourself you shouldn't eat it. Doing so makes you a coward.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 6y ago> And we're not some magical creature free from biological needs. Am I? I became 100% vegetarian a year ago. No one around me was vegetarian. I saved money. I never ate so well and I'm in my best physical form ever. What is magical?
- noworriesnate 6y agoYou need supplements to grow healthily as a vegetarian. For example, it's difficult to get Omega 3, 6 and 9 from plants. You need supplements for that. Also you've only been vegetarian a year. Being a vegetarian from birth to death without supplements would be much more difficult to do without major deficiencies. Also vegetarians today have the option of buying food from all over the world, but that wasn't the case for the vast majority of human history.
- jnathsf 6y agoYou only need to look at cultures like in India, Taiwan and elsewhere that have large vegetarian population to see that your statement doesn’t hold water.
- simonsarris 6y agoThe myth of the Indian vegetarian nation https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-43581122 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-43581122
- neuronic 6y agoFor most Asians and especially the Chinese, animals are just objects. Doesn't matter if you think about mammals skinned alive in some Chinese markets, turtles having their feet chopped off or Huskys locked into a 1-bedroom apartment for their entire life. Asians mostly do not give a single damn about animal well-being. That's a uniquely Western thing.
- Falling3 6y agoAh yes. The birthplace of several religions that that introduced the moral worthiness of animals centuries (if not longer) before the West and the origin of all mock meats up until a few decades ago has no interest in animal well-being. Absolutely.
- MichaelApproved 6y agoThere are many western slaughter houses that don’t give a damn about animal wellbeing. Videos have come out, a few wrists get slapped, and the abuse continues. The western masses continuing to consume their product is tacit approval. This isn’t a western vs eastern thing. It’s a human thing.
- droopyEyelids 6y agoDo any of the Woke/critical theory people know if it's acceptable to say something like this ^ if you explicitly tie it to culture? Is it OK to say some regional cultures place more emphasis on animal cruelty than others?
- Falling3 6y agoIt has nothing to do with being "woke". It's laughably innacurate.
- pjc50 6y agoUnsourced ties to "culture" across a huge region of a billion people and dozens of distinct langauges and cultures? Looks like a smear to me. (also, does "Asian" include India and the Jain, for example?)
- 6y ago
- pjc50 6y agoFish farming is a disease disaster that can harm wild populations. This gets discussed a lot in relation to Scottish Salmon, for example.
- mymythisisthis 6y agoI'm thinking fish farming in urban centers, maybe tied to hyrdoponic greenhouses. I can picture more urban parks, with many fish ponds. The fish pond water used to grow labour intensive cash crops like raspberries (that are hard to pick).
- pjc50 6y agoWhy on earth would you farm in an urban center with high ambient pollution levels and high land prices?
- philg_jr 6y agoSalmon is general is a bad fish to farm because it consumes more protein than it produces. There are better fish (in terms of sustainability) that can be famred, and proper regulations (which the US has, compared to other countries) exist to help. In general, I don't believe the US is the problem with overfishing or polution problems caused by fish farming, compared to other countries who don't have or want the ability to keep things in check.
- La1n 6y ago>Salmon is general is a bad fish to farm because it consumes more protein than it produces. That counts for all animals, no?
- JoeAltmaier 6y agoIts about using protein that has other uses. E.g. free-range chickens eat bugs; I don't want to eat bugs, but I'll gladly eat chickens.
- snarf21 6y agoThe more these discussions progress, the more I wonder if there is really only one solution. We need less people. Trying to convince 8 billion people to do something like never eat meat or fish seems like an impossible goal. We need to raise the standard of living in countries that reproduction rates > 2. We could also remove tax breaks for kids after the second in developed countries to mitigate the incentives for extra children. Maybe if we only had 4 billion people, we might be able to have everything be sustainable. Such a hard problem to solve.
- searchableguy 6y agoIt's probably not sustainable. If everyone start consuming at the same rate as an average person from a developed country, world would run out of resources in no time.
- oblio 6y agoThe thing is, fertility rates are going down across the world. What are you going to do with the current people? They will all want a decent quality of life. Will you sacrifice your life and quality of life to achieve this greater goal you mention? Or do you just want "others" to sacrifice themselves for it?
- jaybeeayyy 6y agoOverpopulation is a racist myth. Developed countries use far more resources and waste significantly more food than developing nations and wealthy people have a larger footprint than their working class counterparts. https://wwf.panda.org/knowledge_hub/all_publications/living_planet_report_timeline/lpr_2012/demands_on_our_planet/footprint_income/ https://wwf.panda.org/knowledge_hub/all_publications/living_... https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/01/chart-of-the-day-these-countries-have-the-largest-carbon-footprints/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/01/chart-of-the-day-thes... https://theconversation.com/emissions-inequality-there-is-a-gulf-between-global-rich-and-poor-113804 https://theconversation.com/emissions-inequality-there-is-a-...