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I'm not sure how you can possibly confuse such a clear cut example of the rich having unfair access to a critical resource. Nobody is saying the teachers are im

I'm not sure how you can possibly confuse such a clear cut example of the rich having unfair access to a critical resource. Nobody is saying the teachers are immoral, and obviously the existence of such an imbalance can be "bad" regardless of the argument about whether an individual rich person is "bad" for benefiting from it, so exactly what angle are you coming at this from?

refurb 6y ago
Plenty of middle class buy homes in the Bay Area in good school districts, while blue collar workers kid’s are stuck in crappy schools. Would you say those middle class parents have “unfair access” as well?
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  Well, I don't agree with the article's tone of moral superiority, but I do think we're facing a more serious problem than the split between good and bad school districts. We're going to come out of this academic year with an unprecedentedly large bifurcation between kids who got the resources to home learn effectively and kids who didn't, and we need to think about what that means for their academic futures.
  - refurb 6y ago
    That I agree with. Missing a few months at the tail end of the year is disruptive, but missing 9+ months is seriously disruptive and you're right, parents that can afford to pay a tutor can bridge the gap, but lower income families are going to be permanently disadvantaged.
- danans 6y ago
  > Would you say those middle class parents have “unfair access” as well? Speaking as one of them, yes. What's unfair is that good schools are only afforded to the middle class and up.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    You can drop a shiny new billion dollar school with teachers paid a million dollars a year in poor neighborhood and still not end up with a “good school”. A good school is one in which the children attending the school have secure home environments, where there is secure food, heat, internet, AC, transportation, quiet, and other fundamentals that are conducive to education. The students peers also need to the same to create the culture of learning. Most importantly, there is a set of parents who have the time and energy to keep up with the kids’ education and plug any gaps along the way. Bonus if the parents themselves have connections and resources to boost their kids’ access to connections and resources. E.g. knowing doctors who can show the way around medical education, lawyers who can show the way around the legal world, etc. Unfair is the state of the world, and unless we want to close to income/wealth gap and give parents the ability to not have to work 2 jobs, or 7 days a week, or choose between fixing a car or eating dinner, the unfairness of schools has nothing to do with the schools or management of the schools themselves.
    - danans 6y ago
      I was using "good school" in response to the parent comment's use of it. I didn't define it, but in fact I agree with nearly everything you wrote - the fact is that what we call "bad" schools has more to do with the extraordinary social challenges those schools face vs. more well-off schools. However, you don't have to eliminate the wealth/income gap to achieve that. Providing social supports enjoyed by wealthier areas (universal Pre-K, universal healthcare, drug/alcohol treatment, small business loans) will help significantly.
  - refurb 6y ago
    How do you define a "good school"? At least in CA, it seems to be test scores, which aren't just a reflection of the school, but also the students. Low income students who don't get support at home from parents or even an emphasis on education are probably going to have low test scores no matter how good the school is.
    - danans 6y ago
ergocoder 6y ago
Still, the teachers aren't slaves. They can pursue a better pay. Paying the teachers better isn't immoral either. Feel free to use other anecdotes. This one is a bad anecdote.
david38 6y ago
There is no shortage of teachers. Every year thousands of people qualified to teach leave the profession because of low pay, shit working conditions, bad principles, bad tenured teachers, bad students allowed to run rampant, and violence. There is absolutely no lack of people who want to teach.

refurb 6y ago

Plenty of middle class buy homes in the Bay Area in good school districts, while blue collar workers kid’s are stuck in crappy schools. Would you say those middle class parents have “unfair access” as well?

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
Well, I don't agree with the article's tone of moral superiority, but I do think we're facing a more serious problem than the split between good and bad school districts. We're going to come out of this academic year with an unprecedentedly large bifurcation between kids who got the resources to home learn effectively and kids who didn't, and we need to think about what that means for their academic futures.
- refurb 6y ago
  That I agree with. Missing a few months at the tail end of the year is disruptive, but missing 9+ months is seriously disruptive and you're right, parents that can afford to pay a tutor can bridge the gap, but lower income families are going to be permanently disadvantaged.
danans 6y ago
> Would you say those middle class parents have “unfair access” as well? Speaking as one of them, yes. What's unfair is that good schools are only afforded to the middle class and up.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  You can drop a shiny new billion dollar school with teachers paid a million dollars a year in poor neighborhood and still not end up with a “good school”. A good school is one in which the children attending the school have secure home environments, where there is secure food, heat, internet, AC, transportation, quiet, and other fundamentals that are conducive to education. The students peers also need to the same to create the culture of learning. Most importantly, there is a set of parents who have the time and energy to keep up with the kids’ education and plug any gaps along the way. Bonus if the parents themselves have connections and resources to boost their kids’ access to connections and resources. E.g. knowing doctors who can show the way around medical education, lawyers who can show the way around the legal world, etc. Unfair is the state of the world, and unless we want to close to income/wealth gap and give parents the ability to not have to work 2 jobs, or 7 days a week, or choose between fixing a car or eating dinner, the unfairness of schools has nothing to do with the schools or management of the schools themselves.
  - danans 6y ago
    I was using "good school" in response to the parent comment's use of it. I didn't define it, but in fact I agree with nearly everything you wrote - the fact is that what we call "bad" schools has more to do with the extraordinary social challenges those schools face vs. more well-off schools. However, you don't have to eliminate the wealth/income gap to achieve that. Providing social supports enjoyed by wealthier areas (universal Pre-K, universal healthcare, drug/alcohol treatment, small business loans) will help significantly.
- refurb 6y ago
  How do you define a "good school"? At least in CA, it seems to be test scores, which aren't just a reflection of the school, but also the students. Low income students who don't get support at home from parents or even an emphasis on education are probably going to have low test scores no matter how good the school is.
  - danans 6y ago

ergocoder 6y ago

Still, the teachers aren't slaves. They can pursue a better pay. Paying the teachers better isn't immoral either. Feel free to use other anecdotes. This one is a bad anecdote.

david38 6y ago

There is no shortage of teachers. Every year thousands of people qualified to teach leave the profession because of low pay, shit working conditions, bad principles, bad tenured teachers, bad students allowed to run rampant, and violence. There is absolutely no lack of people who want to teach.