15 ms·

Yeah, exactly. I cannot believe they use this story as one of the anecdotes about rich people being bad. Teachers are not their slaves. They can choose work th

Yeah, exactly. I cannot believe they use this story as one of the anecdotes about rich people being bad. Teachers are not their slaves. They can choose work that is better.

hcknwscommenter 6y ago
The point is, we all pay taxes. Education is a fundamental right. Schools are already underfunded because of anti-tax fundamentalism that is rampant among those who can most afford to pay taxes. Now, they simply buy our teachers out from under those of us who can't afford to pay 25K per child.
- patrick451 6y ago
  Education is a service that somebody must pay for. It is only a fundamental right in as much as nobody should forbid you from acquiring an education. On the other hand, forcing me to pay for your education is not fundamental. It is robbery.
  - hcknwscommenter 6y ago
    I see. You don't care to reside in a society with an educated citizenry. Good luck with that.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  I'm sure some schools are underfunded, but is there a particular amount you think we ought to be spending? Keep in mind that American schools on average are near the top of the world in funding per student, so any kind of cross-cultural comparison isn't going to suggest underfunding.
- OldHand2018 6y ago
  I don't live in California. Perhaps the only problem in California is money. I doubt it though. I have many family members that work or have worked in education. Sure, they all wished they were paid more. But none of them would have said that money was their #1 complaint. Money wouldn't ever have been in the top ten. Of all the teachers I know who have quit, money wasn't the reason.
- ergocoder 6y ago
  > Now, they simply buy our teachers out from under those of us who can't afford to pay 25K per child. So, the teachers should be stuck with lower pay because you care about wealth inequality? Why would this specific teacher should be the one who gets punished? I'm sure there are many other examples to make the same point. This teacher example is a bad one.
  - hcknwscommenter 6y ago
    No. The teachers should be better funded in the first place by the tax base so that they can teach in the public school for a decent wage.
- solidsnack9000 6y ago
  Education is not, in fact, a fundamental right; at least not in the sense that you mean it. There's nothing wrong with people getting education without the help of the government. It's not like freedom of speech, fair trials, voting -- rights that have no meaning without the government's involvement.
  - hcknwscommenter 6y ago
    Education is a fundamental right. There is nothing in that statement that contradicts your point that "there's nothing wrong with people getting education without the help of the government."
- DuskStar 6y ago
  > Schools are already underfunded Do you have any way to show this? Do student outcomes actually vary with the amount of funding the school gets? At the very least, the Kansas City Experiment [0] says that dumping infinite money into a failing school district doesn't materially impact outcomes. 0: https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1995-06-22-9506220051-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1995-06-22-950622...
  - hcknwscommenter 6y ago
    I show this by the fact that apparently, according to the article, teachers are being lured away from the public school to teach private pods in the pandemic. Keep in mind, public schools in CA are entirely distance learning. So, these teachers are taking on a health risk to take these private jobs. Obviously they are not being paid enough by the public school to forgo the health risk/higher pay.
    - DuskStar 6y ago
      That doesn't actually show anything about the impact on students, though. For all we know, doubling online class sizes doesn't change outcomes. (Because outcomes are already so poor, and might be basically comparable to doing nothing, for instance)
happytoexplain 6y ago
I'm not sure how you can possibly confuse such a clear cut example of the rich having unfair access to a critical resource. Nobody is saying the teachers are immoral, and obviously the existence of such an imbalance can be "bad" regardless of the argument about whether an individual rich person is "bad" for benefiting from it, so exactly what angle are you coming at this from?
- refurb 6y ago
  Plenty of middle class buy homes in the Bay Area in good school districts, while blue collar workers kid’s are stuck in crappy schools. Would you say those middle class parents have “unfair access” as well?
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    Well, I don't agree with the article's tone of moral superiority, but I do think we're facing a more serious problem than the split between good and bad school districts. We're going to come out of this academic year with an unprecedentedly large bifurcation between kids who got the resources to home learn effectively and kids who didn't, and we need to think about what that means for their academic futures.
    - refurb 6y ago
      That I agree with. Missing a few months at the tail end of the year is disruptive, but missing 9+ months is seriously disruptive and you're right, parents that can afford to pay a tutor can bridge the gap, but lower income families are going to be permanently disadvantaged.
  - danans 6y ago
    > Would you say those middle class parents have “unfair access” as well? Speaking as one of them, yes. What's unfair is that good schools are only afforded to the middle class and up.
    - 6y ago

Yeah, exactly. I cannot believe they use this story as one of the anecdotes about rich people being bad. Teachers are not their slaves. They can choose work that is better.

hcknwscommenter 6y ago

The point is, we all pay taxes. Education is a fundamental right. Schools are already underfunded because of anti-tax fundamentalism that is rampant among those who can most afford to pay taxes. Now, they simply buy our teachers out from under those of us who can't afford to pay 25K per child.

patrick451 6y ago
Education is a service that somebody must pay for. It is only a fundamental right in as much as nobody should forbid you from acquiring an education. On the other hand, forcing me to pay for your education is not fundamental. It is robbery.
- hcknwscommenter 6y ago
  I see. You don't care to reside in a society with an educated citizenry. Good luck with that.
SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
I'm sure some schools are underfunded, but is there a particular amount you think we ought to be spending? Keep in mind that American schools on average are near the top of the world in funding per student, so any kind of cross-cultural comparison isn't going to suggest underfunding.
OldHand2018 6y ago
I don't live in California. Perhaps the only problem in California is money. I doubt it though. I have many family members that work or have worked in education. Sure, they all wished they were paid more. But none of them would have said that money was their #1 complaint. Money wouldn't ever have been in the top ten. Of all the teachers I know who have quit, money wasn't the reason.
ergocoder 6y ago
> Now, they simply buy our teachers out from under those of us who can't afford to pay 25K per child. So, the teachers should be stuck with lower pay because you care about wealth inequality? Why would this specific teacher should be the one who gets punished? I'm sure there are many other examples to make the same point. This teacher example is a bad one.
- hcknwscommenter 6y ago
  No. The teachers should be better funded in the first place by the tax base so that they can teach in the public school for a decent wage.
solidsnack9000 6y ago
Education is not, in fact, a fundamental right; at least not in the sense that you mean it. There's nothing wrong with people getting education without the help of the government. It's not like freedom of speech, fair trials, voting -- rights that have no meaning without the government's involvement.
- hcknwscommenter 6y ago
  Education is a fundamental right. There is nothing in that statement that contradicts your point that "there's nothing wrong with people getting education without the help of the government."
DuskStar 6y ago
> Schools are already underfunded Do you have any way to show this? Do student outcomes actually vary with the amount of funding the school gets? At the very least, the Kansas City Experiment [0] says that dumping infinite money into a failing school district doesn't materially impact outcomes. 0: https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1995-06-22-9506220051-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1995-06-22-950622...
- hcknwscommenter 6y ago
  I show this by the fact that apparently, according to the article, teachers are being lured away from the public school to teach private pods in the pandemic. Keep in mind, public schools in CA are entirely distance learning. So, these teachers are taking on a health risk to take these private jobs. Obviously they are not being paid enough by the public school to forgo the health risk/higher pay.
  - DuskStar 6y ago
    That doesn't actually show anything about the impact on students, though. For all we know, doubling online class sizes doesn't change outcomes. (Because outcomes are already so poor, and might be basically comparable to doing nothing, for instance)

happytoexplain 6y ago

I'm not sure how you can possibly confuse such a clear cut example of the rich having unfair access to a critical resource. Nobody is saying the teachers are immoral, and obviously the existence of such an imbalance can be "bad" regardless of the argument about whether an individual rich person is "bad" for benefiting from it, so exactly what angle are you coming at this from?

refurb 6y ago
Plenty of middle class buy homes in the Bay Area in good school districts, while blue collar workers kid’s are stuck in crappy schools. Would you say those middle class parents have “unfair access” as well?
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  Well, I don't agree with the article's tone of moral superiority, but I do think we're facing a more serious problem than the split between good and bad school districts. We're going to come out of this academic year with an unprecedentedly large bifurcation between kids who got the resources to home learn effectively and kids who didn't, and we need to think about what that means for their academic futures.
  - refurb 6y ago
    That I agree with. Missing a few months at the tail end of the year is disruptive, but missing 9+ months is seriously disruptive and you're right, parents that can afford to pay a tutor can bridge the gap, but lower income families are going to be permanently disadvantaged.
- danans 6y ago
  > Would you say those middle class parents have “unfair access” as well? Speaking as one of them, yes. What's unfair is that good schools are only afforded to the middle class and up.
  - 6y ago