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Having children took me from being able to sleep any time anywhere to having horrible sleep. One of my kids had an incredibly quiet voice in her first three mon

Having children took me from being able to sleep any time anywhere to having horrible sleep. One of my kids had an incredibly quiet voice in her first three months AND had a habit of spitting up copious amounts when we would put her in her crib. She would start crying and making choking noises but very quietly so I learned to be an incredibly light sleeper. She also would not sleep for the first month unless she was held (she got over it, it wasn’t a big thing, it wasn’t a medical problem, we checked), but it meant that I would stay up holding her and watching TV until 3am and then hand her off to someone else for the rest of the night, getting 4-5 hours of sleep. We sometimes had to keep lights on all night, sometimes TV on to keep adults caring for the kids from falling asleep themselves. It was brutal. A part of it was the breast is best craze that has taken over parenting. I don’t disagree with it, but also some people just don’t produce enough milk to fully sustain a child and you need to supplement. When our kids were older my partner found out that her doctor actually noted that her breast tissue was likely to not produce sufficient quantities of milk on her medical chart, but failed to ever tell her. Hence feeding the kids 8-12 times a night, times two kids. As a result years later I now can’t sleep for more than 5 hours a night without waking up and not being able to go back to sleep for an hour or two. I am slowly figuring out ways to combat this but I have yet to find a solution that lets me sleep a full 7-9 hours my body seems to actually need that doesn’t give me a headache or make my drowsy for the rest of the following day. Sometimes being human is a limitation.

mrfusion 6y ago
> I now can’t sleep for more than 5 hours a night without waking up and not being able to go back to sleep for an hour or two. Have you ruled out alcohol? I’ve heard drinking at night can cause that.
- IgorPartola 6y ago
  I don’t drink most days, and if I do I don’t get drunk except maybe once a year.
- edoceo 6y ago
  Other sugars too, the blood-sugar drop signals wake up and eat. iIRC
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  >Have you ruled out alcohol? I’ve heard drinking at night can cause that. For the over whelming majority of homo-sapiens alcohol tends to increase, not decrease, the propensity to sleep for many hours. Sure there's edge cases but they're rare enough and hard enough to differentiate from other problems that nobody should be trying to diagnose those over the internet.
  - mrfusion 6y ago
    I was surprised to learn the opposite: https://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/news/20130118/alcohol-sleep https://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/news/20130118/alcohol-...
dongvsascript 6y ago
sounds like you've done research, so i'll jump on the tangent. i've always assumed formula by now is as good as milk from the tap, outside if the mom's antibodies being passed on. and my opinion is after going through digestion they help only a little. is formula not as good? the wife and i don't have kids yet, but the plan was always to get on formula after like 3 months. simply because not doing that destroys the tits, and a wetnurse is just gross. serious question, just being blunt. edit: thanks everyone for your answers. the point about us not knowing everything about the milk is very valid. i do find we would have had ample scientific evidence by now of formula not having everything needed , since formula has been globally used for so long. as far as bad chemicals, we do have lab reports, which i actually use to find vitamin brands. wetnurse being gross is a stupid feeling i have, and maybe antibodies from a genetically dissimular host not being good for you -like attacking the baby's cells since they're foreign.
- daigoba66 6y ago
  Two kids, both on formula from day one. It was probably the right choice for a number of personal factors: we both could easily take turns feeding, it’s easy to know and track how much they’re consuming, and simplified things for eventually going to daycare. There are certainly people who will discourage you from formula. But you have to make your own choice for yourselves and your baby. But frankly neither choice is “bad”.
- jedberg 6y ago
  Formula is pretty close but the antibodies are a big deal, especially early on. It’s a good idea to breastfeed or pump if at all possible, but it’s not possible for everyone. My wife would spend hours pumping (baby wouldn’t latch) and only produce a few ounces. We always started with that and then supplemented with formula. The kids seem fine. On the idea of a wetnurse being “gross”, do you drink cows milk? Because that’s basically like having your own cow wetnurse. Sharing milk obviously isn’t for everyone, but don’t dismiss it offhand.
- IgorPartola 6y ago
  From want I could tell milk is still better simply because basically only the things we’ve identified as nutritionally significant have been added to to it. Imagine a time before we knew what vitamin B is so we didn’t add it to baby formula. Then it turns out it’s not just a thing but actually important. That’s where our understanding of nutrition. Another concerning thing with formula is how it’s made. For example, one brand of top shelf organic formula used a chemical known to be a neurotoxin but claim that they remove it all before the manufacturing process is complete, while a competing top brand was using palm oil as one ingredient which is know to be an irritant to newborn’s GI system. So it always felt like choosing the lesser of evils.
IpV8 6y ago
Fuck all the people responding to with shameful posts about breast feeding being better. I did a fair amount of research into why, and the only conclusive thing a found was that breast feeding increased IQ by like 2 points. That is massively insignificant. IF breastfeeding adds antibodies (which is debated), then that is more than offset by just being careful to not let your child be exposed to the flu. The happiness of your child long term is by far the most important thing, and if being able to sleep better allows you to be more attentive to your child's emotional needs, then that will drastically out way 2 points of IQ. Most people telling you breast milk is better probably have no idea what it is like to feed a baby 8+ times a night and the emotional and physical toll associated with that. That type of situation can make you resent your baby. These people probably read about breast is best on some inlfuencer's blog or are parroting back some advice that their doctor gave them based on their particular situation. A mother who can't breastfeed for physical (or even emotional) reasons doesn't need an arsenal of people explaining to her why she's damaging her baby everywhere she looks to add on to the shame and inadequacy that she already feels. /rant
joelvalleroy 6y ago
I have a buddy who did a few years in the military, in one of the more stressful specialties. He had an especially damaged sleep habit as well from this. He went to some sort of "sleep therapist", I forget the exact nomenclature. Anyway, he was recommended a series of tips (from limit screen time to everything else you may see online). He found it did help. That sort of service may be worth looking into.

mrfusion 6y ago

> I now can’t sleep for more than 5 hours a night without waking up and not being able to go back to sleep for an hour or two. Have you ruled out alcohol? I’ve heard drinking at night can cause that.

IgorPartola 6y ago
I don’t drink most days, and if I do I don’t get drunk except maybe once a year.
edoceo 6y ago
Other sugars too, the blood-sugar drop signals wake up and eat. iIRC
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
>Have you ruled out alcohol? I’ve heard drinking at night can cause that. For the over whelming majority of homo-sapiens alcohol tends to increase, not decrease, the propensity to sleep for many hours. Sure there's edge cases but they're rare enough and hard enough to differentiate from other problems that nobody should be trying to diagnose those over the internet.
- mrfusion 6y ago
  I was surprised to learn the opposite: https://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/news/20130118/alcohol-sleep https://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/news/20130118/alcohol-...

dongvsascript 6y ago

sounds like you've done research, so i'll jump on the tangent. i've always assumed formula by now is as good as milk from the tap, outside if the mom's antibodies being passed on. and my opinion is after going through digestion they help only a little. is formula not as good? the wife and i don't have kids yet, but the plan was always to get on formula after like 3 months. simply because not doing that destroys the tits, and a wetnurse is just gross. serious question, just being blunt. edit: thanks everyone for your answers. the point about us not knowing everything about the milk is very valid. i do find we would have had ample scientific evidence by now of formula not having everything needed , since formula has been globally used for so long. as far as bad chemicals, we do have lab reports, which i actually use to find vitamin brands. wetnurse being gross is a stupid feeling i have, and maybe antibodies from a genetically dissimular host not being good for you -like attacking the baby's cells since they're foreign.

daigoba66 6y ago
Two kids, both on formula from day one. It was probably the right choice for a number of personal factors: we both could easily take turns feeding, it’s easy to know and track how much they’re consuming, and simplified things for eventually going to daycare. There are certainly people who will discourage you from formula. But you have to make your own choice for yourselves and your baby. But frankly neither choice is “bad”.
jedberg 6y ago
Formula is pretty close but the antibodies are a big deal, especially early on. It’s a good idea to breastfeed or pump if at all possible, but it’s not possible for everyone. My wife would spend hours pumping (baby wouldn’t latch) and only produce a few ounces. We always started with that and then supplemented with formula. The kids seem fine. On the idea of a wetnurse being “gross”, do you drink cows milk? Because that’s basically like having your own cow wetnurse. Sharing milk obviously isn’t for everyone, but don’t dismiss it offhand.
IgorPartola 6y ago
From want I could tell milk is still better simply because basically only the things we’ve identified as nutritionally significant have been added to to it. Imagine a time before we knew what vitamin B is so we didn’t add it to baby formula. Then it turns out it’s not just a thing but actually important. That’s where our understanding of nutrition. Another concerning thing with formula is how it’s made. For example, one brand of top shelf organic formula used a chemical known to be a neurotoxin but claim that they remove it all before the manufacturing process is complete, while a competing top brand was using palm oil as one ingredient which is know to be an irritant to newborn’s GI system. So it always felt like choosing the lesser of evils.

IpV8 6y ago

Fuck all the people responding to with shameful posts about breast feeding being better. I did a fair amount of research into why, and the only conclusive thing a found was that breast feeding increased IQ by like 2 points. That is massively insignificant. IF breastfeeding adds antibodies (which is debated), then that is more than offset by just being careful to not let your child be exposed to the flu. The happiness of your child long term is by far the most important thing, and if being able to sleep better allows you to be more attentive to your child's emotional needs, then that will drastically out way 2 points of IQ. Most people telling you breast milk is better probably have no idea what it is like to feed a baby 8+ times a night and the emotional and physical toll associated with that. That type of situation can make you resent your baby. These people probably read about breast is best on some inlfuencer's blog or are parroting back some advice that their doctor gave them based on their particular situation. A mother who can't breastfeed for physical (or even emotional) reasons doesn't need an arsenal of people explaining to her why she's damaging her baby everywhere she looks to add on to the shame and inadequacy that she already feels. /rant

joelvalleroy 6y ago

I have a buddy who did a few years in the military, in one of the more stressful specialties. He had an especially damaged sleep habit as well from this. He went to some sort of "sleep therapist", I forget the exact nomenclature. Anyway, he was recommended a series of tips (from limit screen time to everything else you may see online). He found it did help. That sort of service may be worth looking into.