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San Fransisco has one of the highest, and in some cases - highest - housing and rental prices in the US. If taxes are as high as you claim, it would be more ra

San Fransisco has one of the highest, and in some cases - highest - housing and rental prices in the US. If taxes are as high as you claim, it would be more rational to argue that the high prices are indirectly caused by that tax, rather than prices being held down by taxes. Several causes seems more likely for a change in inventory, or pricing. An extremely high cost of housing and the consequently smaller than average living spaces, which people are spending more time in due to covid has probably led some people to re-evaluate their priorities. It has in less heated markets. Increased possibilities of remote work even in tech companies traditionally against it, and as tech drives SF, this is going to affect a majority of people living there. Expectations of recession due to one of 1) covid 2) some of the giants getting pushback from an administration that is fickle at best 3) new competition from non US companies in driving markets, eg TikTok 4) ... and more. There are plenty of somewhat plausible reasons to get out of the highest priced housing market in the US, especially if you can't handle a significant downturn in prices. You could argue taxes too, if the market prices were average, or below average, but in the current situation any economic sensitivity is caused by an overheated housing market, nothing else can even touch the force of a market as hot as the SF one. However, if a market with 1/4 the inventory of NY increase its inventory, even when it's with about 100%, one really can't tell anything. It's the hottest of the hot markets that's cooled down a little, and it doesn't really tell anything yet, except that the market has changed somehow.

justchilly 6y ago
If you make $250k in SF (sounds high, but about average for the people I know that are leaving SF), state income tax alone is $19,996. If you make that in Texas, state income tax is $0. That $20k/year is for many people a bigger deal than the cost of living. Most people I know leaving were home owners or rent controlled. Source: moved to Austin in June.
- twalla 6y ago
  Property taxes in TX are generally higher but the lower average home price sort of negates that. Regardless, I'm looking forward to competing with even _more_ cash offers over listing price within 24 hours of a listing going up.
  - ed25519FUUU 6y ago
    2nd tier cities with affordable living and fiber internet are going to see a huge boon of immigrants. Cities take note and start rolling our fiber as fast as you can.
- Tiktaalik 6y ago
  lmao at the idea of caring about $20k when you make $250k
  - refurb 6y ago
    8% of your income?
  - Green_man 6y ago
    8% of income is significant for almost everyone. It could be easy for someone living on a lot less to assume that a marginal 20k doesn't matter to "rich people", but lifestyle inflation and regional cost of living differences should be considered.
    - apexalpha 6y ago
      I'm in Europe and we generally pay between 33% to 50% of our income in tax. So, yeah, i can't really imagine being angry that you're being asked to contribute back to the society. Especially when you make 250k.
      - justchilly 6y ago
        The marginal rate in California for high earners is well over 50%. That 8% you're referring to is just the state income tax portion applied to the entire income. Marginal rate for high earners includes: 37% federal. 13.3% state, plus FICA, social security, local taxes, etc. not to mention employer payroll tax and insurance premiums that are essentially passed on to employees but baked into tax in Europe). Taxes are significantly higher in California than Europe for high earners (like the people leaving SF). There seems to be a major misconception about this even among Americans. Take France for example. Uses a simliar marginal rate system but caps out at 48%. https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/france/individual/taxes-on-personal-income https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/france/individual/taxes-on-pers...
        pedrosorio 6y ago
        "high earners" - this thread starts with someone asking why people earning $250k would care about $20k in taxes and the person you are replying to is talking about tax/income in Europe, not marginal tax rate - 37% federal requires $510k income (after $12k personal exemption and probably $20k retirement savings) - 13.3% state in California requires $1M income - Social security is included in FICA and does not count towards the marginal rate for high earners (you pay no social security tax on income above $137k) - Local taxes?
- seanmcdirmid 6y ago
  $20k/year to live in Austin, I think my AC bill would eat all that up. But there are other places that don’t have state income tax, like Seattle.
  - mcphilip 6y ago
    I assume you’re being sarcastic but I’ll give a datapoint anyways. Small home in Austin, ~1400 square feet, costs a little over $200/month in the summer and I keep it a nice cool 71 degrees 24/7. Low to mid $100s the rest of the year. I don’t have any notable shade coverage, either.
    - seanmcdirmid 6y ago
      It was tongue in cheek. I lived in Austin for only one hot summer, and my dash board melted. Not a bad place otherwise.

justchilly 6y ago

If you make $250k in SF (sounds high, but about average for the people I know that are leaving SF), state income tax alone is $19,996. If you make that in Texas, state income tax is $0. That $20k/year is for many people a bigger deal than the cost of living. Most people I know leaving were home owners or rent controlled. Source: moved to Austin in June.

twalla 6y ago
Property taxes in TX are generally higher but the lower average home price sort of negates that. Regardless, I'm looking forward to competing with even _more_ cash offers over listing price within 24 hours of a listing going up.
- ed25519FUUU 6y ago
  2nd tier cities with affordable living and fiber internet are going to see a huge boon of immigrants. Cities take note and start rolling our fiber as fast as you can.
Tiktaalik 6y ago
lmao at the idea of caring about $20k when you make $250k
- refurb 6y ago
  8% of your income?
- Green_man 6y ago
  8% of income is significant for almost everyone. It could be easy for someone living on a lot less to assume that a marginal 20k doesn't matter to "rich people", but lifestyle inflation and regional cost of living differences should be considered.
  - apexalpha 6y ago
    I'm in Europe and we generally pay between 33% to 50% of our income in tax. So, yeah, i can't really imagine being angry that you're being asked to contribute back to the society. Especially when you make 250k.
    - justchilly 6y ago
      The marginal rate in California for high earners is well over 50%. That 8% you're referring to is just the state income tax portion applied to the entire income. Marginal rate for high earners includes: 37% federal. 13.3% state, plus FICA, social security, local taxes, etc. not to mention employer payroll tax and insurance premiums that are essentially passed on to employees but baked into tax in Europe). Taxes are significantly higher in California than Europe for high earners (like the people leaving SF). There seems to be a major misconception about this even among Americans. Take France for example. Uses a simliar marginal rate system but caps out at 48%. https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/france/individual/taxes-on-personal-income https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/france/individual/taxes-on-pers...
      - pedrosorio 6y ago
        "high earners" - this thread starts with someone asking why people earning $250k would care about $20k in taxes and the person you are replying to is talking about tax/income in Europe, not marginal tax rate - 37% federal requires $510k income (after $12k personal exemption and probably $20k retirement savings) - 13.3% state in California requires $1M income - Social security is included in FICA and does not count towards the marginal rate for high earners (you pay no social security tax on income above $137k) - Local taxes?
seanmcdirmid 6y ago
$20k/year to live in Austin, I think my AC bill would eat all that up. But there are other places that don’t have state income tax, like Seattle.
- mcphilip 6y ago
  I assume you’re being sarcastic but I’ll give a datapoint anyways. Small home in Austin, ~1400 square feet, costs a little over $200/month in the summer and I keep it a nice cool 71 degrees 24/7. Low to mid $100s the rest of the year. I don’t have any notable shade coverage, either.
  - seanmcdirmid 6y ago
    It was tongue in cheek. I lived in Austin for only one hot summer, and my dash board melted. Not a bad place otherwise.