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Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden

• HenryKissinger 6y ago
  > realDonaldTrump: ObamaCare is a disaster and Snowden is a spy who should be executed-but if it and he could reveal Obama's records,I might become a major fan He should be executed, but in the same breathe he may deserve a pardon? Not going to happen. Neither the State Department, the Justice Department, the Defense Department, or the Intelligence Community, is particularly sympathetic to Snowden's cause (for good reason imo). There has been no change on that front from the Obama administration to the Trump administration. William Barr, Mike Pompeo, and Mark Esper are no more fans of Snowden than Loretta Lynch, John Kerry, and Ash Carter were. Snowden will die in Russia or in a US prison. I know it's not what the vigilantes of the Internet want to hear, but it's the most likely scenario.
  • gpm 6y ago
    Your quote is from... October 2013 [1]. I think Trump's views and information might have changed since then, and the state of the world has changed which will modify the pros and cons of this move to trump. I expect his decision will mostly be made based on how he perceives it impacting his chance of getting re-elected. I haven't noticed trump ever being particularly concerned about what the intelligence community thinks. [1] https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/395683702757662721?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/39568370275766272...
    • mullingitover 6y ago
      That is just one of many, many rants Trump published about Snowden.
    • kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
      This will garner him one mail in vote from Russia.
      • csilverman 6y ago
        Not trying to change the subject, but that's kind of an interesting question actually. Can Edward Snowden vote in US elections? As far as I know, he's still an American citizen, and he hasn't been technically convicted of anything.
        • ars 6y ago
          Yes he can. He would use his last state of residence as the voting location.
    • m463 6y ago
      I expect it might be calculated to help his re-election - if he does it. Remembering how google locked down its internal network after the revelations, I would expect lots of silicon valley might align with snowden's plight.
      • deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
  • AdolfHitler 6y ago
    I couldn't agree more Henry!
• ShowdeadTrue 6y ago
  The line in the sand is clear: a free and open society that accepts its own faults, versus a platform of ideological purity enforced with mob violence. Please think about this carefully HN.
• Olumde 6y ago
  Trump will scarcely do something like this unless he thinks it will benefit him. Does he think millenials will love him for it or does he think Snowden has dirt on Obama? Time will tell.
  • quadrangle 6y ago
    I agree. But still. No way I'll vote for Trump, but I have to admit that such a pardon would have me feel just a bit less antipathy toward Trump.
    • djtriptych 6y ago
      I'm glad Edward Snowden leaked what he did, but I'm not sure a pardon makes any sense at all.
      • toomuchtodo 6y ago
        I think it’s unlikely Snowden would ever receive a fair trial, therefore a pardon is the best course of action, erring on the side of compassion versus “justice” typically dispensed by the US justice system. What he revealed about the domestic surveillance apparatus violating US law and citizens’ rights had significant value to nation. Regardless, if this is how the pardon comes about, I happily support it even if it’s not ideal.
        • shallowthought 6y ago
          I think it's impossible to have a fair trial when the guy has made an entire career out of detailing precisely what illegal actions he has taken.
          • toomuchtodo 6y ago
            Demonstrating gross breach of legality and trust by intelligence agencies? In other countries, leadership of those agencies who lied to Congress (or their version of the legislative branch) would’ve done time. It boggles the mind that some can attempt to justify the egregious actions of the US intelligence community while supporting the railroading of a whistleblower. Perhaps the intelligence community could be more responsible and compliant with statute, negating the need for whistleblowers to reveal their illegal activities.
• tlow 6y ago
  blank
  • wyxuan 6y ago
    Did you miss the word “considering”?
• totalZero 6y ago
  Kind of hard to prosecute Assange if you're willing to pardon Snowden. I'm gonna go make some popcorn and keep watching for Assange's name in the pre-election headlines.
  • lettergram 6y ago
    Assange isn’t even a US citizen, nor (if I recall) was the “crime” on US soil. Further, The “crime” of booting up the drive should be independent of what was done with it. It’s insane to me Assange is being prosecuted. Who in the US government is willing to stand up and say this is wrong? The person who leaked the data is going to get far less time in prison.
    • totalZero 6y ago
      Citizenship is not a component of any relevant statute, to my knowledge. It's certainly not mentioned in the First Amendment. What I'm saying is, if Snowden -- who is the alleged primary source of a leak -- gets pardoned, then how can Assange -- who may not have had any primary involvement whatsoever with the leak of the documents he published -- be held responsible? Logically it makes no sense because Assange's alleged crime is lesser than Snowden's.
  • cryptonector 6y ago
    In the Snowden case Trump has at least two reasons to pardon him: a) pander to a certain crowd (tech), b) stick a finger in the IC's collective eye. In the Assange case Trump has at least one more reason to pardon him: so Assange can tell the world whether Seth Rich gave him the DNC emails. But if Trump even floats a pardon for Assange then the Swedish government might renew its claims against Assange and the UK might just extradite Assange to Sweden, then Trump couldn't get what he wanted. To pardon Assange Trump first has to get Assange extradited to the U.S., and he can't make a deal with Assange first either, and this means he can't pardon Assange yet. There's also no time for any of that before the election. The closer the election gets, the more reason (a) would dominate any reasoning about a pardon for Assange. Some possible outcomes: - Trump pardons Assange just before the election without having floated it, and possibly at the same time as Snowden. - Assange finally gets extradited and either tried, or pardoned, or both, depending on who is President at the time. Hard to say what Trump might do then, since Assange would be no use to him then, and Biden would probably not pardon if Seth Rich really did furnish the DNC's emails to wikileaks. - Trump wins the election, the charges get dropped, and Sweden does not renew its charges because now Assange would be no help to Trump's campaigns. - Trump pardons Assange after the election, whether he wins or loses. - Eventually the UK rejects the extradition requests, Assange goes free, but effectively can't leave the UK because the U.S. could request extradition from any country Assange enters that has an extradition treaty with the U.S.
• duxup 6y ago
  I suppose on his mind this might fit with some sort of fight with the "deep state". Beyond that I would just chalk it up to some inherent capriciousness... bordering on concerning instability.
  • cryptonector 6y ago
    You've addressed the President's possible motivations. But, do you think Snowden should be pardoned? Just curious. (It's a tough call. I've not decided my own position on the matter.)
    • HenryKissinger 6y ago
      Snowden is charged with theft, unauthorized communication of national defense information, and willful communication of classified communications intelligence information to an unauthorized person, under the 1917 Espionage Act. His unauthorized disclosures of classified information caused grave damage to the national security of the United States and allowed enemies of the United States to better conceal their communications and activities. I do not think Snowden deserves a pardon. Edward Snowden should be extradited to the United States to receive a trial and an appropriate sentence.
      • liability 6y ago
        If you were the real Henry Kissinger, I think your disapproval would be a great reason to pardon Snowden.
      • throwaway1777 6y ago
        Almost everyone thought mass surveillance was a conspiracy theory before Snowden. On the balance maybe he still deserves prison, but denying the positives of what Snowden did is disingenuous.
        • HenryKissinger 6y ago
          Leaking classified data without authorization was reckless and unlawful. There are already stringent safeguards in place to prevent abuse of the intelligence community's surveillance powers. Oversight of US surveillance programs is exercised by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, and the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. The purpose of these congressional committees is to oversee and make continuing studies of the intelligence activities and programs of the United States Government, to submit to Congress appropriate proposals for legislation and report to Congress concerning such intelligence activities and programs, to provide vigilant legislative oversight over the intelligence activities of the United States to assure that such activities are in conformity with the Constitution and laws of the United States. In fact, there is no country in the world where surveillance activities are subject to more regulations and checks than the United States.
• runawaybottle 6y ago
  Politically, bringing back Snowden brings back the issue, Obama/Biden era big government spying program Prism. Trump: Remember everyone, Biden used to spy on you. This is similar to when he did a press conference with all of Bill Clinton’s accusers. Just a means to an end for Trump.
  • gringoDan 6y ago
    If this is the case, not a bad strategy for Trump. In general, I assume that any move by a politician is made entirely out of self-interest.
    • runawaybottle 6y ago
      Yeah I mean, if he pardons before the debates, suddenly that takes up a debate topic slot. All he has to do is directly ask Biden, ‘You don’t think Snowden did the right thing by exposing your administration’s surveillance program?’. It’s such an easy win, and will take mindshare away from other issues (coronavirus response, police reform, Medicare/social security cuts). Add a TikTok ban in there and take up another debate slot, fill it in with all the anti China stuff. There are things he can do to set the stage for sure.
      • tlear 6y ago
        I think there is almost zero chance that Biden will debate him. If he does pardoning Snowden and making that into an issue is a brilliant move. That will sting hard.
        • monocasa 6y ago
          There's no way there won't be several debates.
        • eagsalazar2 6y ago
          Biden already accepted invitations to the debates, last I read Trump had not.
• komradeKow 6y ago
  Lets see all the woke people on this board spin this in their minds and come up with a narrative to hate Trump more. /popcorn
• option 6y ago
  Snowden should be pardoned. Good for Trump if he does this
  • refurb 6y ago
    Ha! Love how this is downvoted. Trump could cure cancer and HN would fault in it.
    • dontcarethrow2 6y ago
      He has tons of fans everywhere. 'Ye but but' --looks at the fake news bingo entry-- 'Russia!'
• gok 6y ago
  Trump wants to help a traitor that helped him get elected? Sounds so unlike him!
  • cryptonector 6y ago
    This is the first I've heard of Snowden helping elect Trump.
    • lern_too_spel 6y ago
      A lot of people believed Snowden's gross misreading of the documents he leaked, and that misreading paints a picture of deep state intelligence agencies run amok illegally spying on Americans. Of course, any literate person who reads the documents understands they don't support that picture, but there are enough barely literate QAnon believers to support an entire industry.
      • dragonwriter 6y ago
        > A lot of people believed Snowden's gross misreading of the documents he leaked, and that misreading paints a picture of deep state intelligence agencies run amok illegally spying on Americans. Of course, any literate person who reads the documents understands they don't support that picture On the other hand, the intelligence community IG report mandated by the FISA Amendments Act that leaked and was published just after, and almost certainly because of, the publication of the Snowden leaks did paint such a picture. So, you know, there's that. Of course, while much less detailed a picture than the IG report, so did the whole trickle of official revelations and leaks leading up to the FISA Amendments Act, which overtly sought to both legalize some of and control other mass surveillance, some of which was publicly acknowledged and more of which had to have been briefed to members to have motivated the act.
        • lern_too_spel 6y ago
          > On the other hand, the intelligence community IG report mandated by the FISA Amendments Act that leaked and was published just after, and almost certainly because of, the publication of the Snowden leaks did paint such a picture. In what way does it show the NSA having access to everybody's communications as Snowden alleged? Your comment is full of underspecified insinuations with no concrete facts to back them up.
• csilverman 6y ago
  Two possibilities come to mind: 1. My uninformed kneejerk guess is that Russia, for whatever reason, wants to be rid of Snowden. It's the only explanation for why Trump—who has no pressing reason to be thinking about Edward Snowden right now, and almost certainly does not approve of Snowden or people like him—would suddenly raise the issue. 2. That, or it's something Trump knows will get everyone talking and he needs a distraction. Maybe both. I could be missing something, but I can't see how this is going to help Trump in an election at all. The people who care about Snowden are not going to overlook everything else Trump has done, and at the risk of sounding callous, I don't think most millenials are really thinking about Snowden at this point. The question for me is why Putin wants Edward Snowden gone, and when you look at the one vs. the other, the answer looks pretty clear to me.
  • duxup 6y ago
    I don't think Russia needs anyone's help being rid of Snowden... Russia is not a very free country, if they want him silent, gone, whatever it would happen.
    • cryptonector 6y ago
      Clearly Snowden has been useful to them, at least from a propaganda angle, and perhaps intelligence-wise as well. By now they've extracted all the value they were ever going to extract from him, and he may just be a cost center to them now, but you're absolutely right that if they wanted to be rid of him, it'd be trivial to do it.
      • thaumasiotes 6y ago
        > Clearly Snowden has been useful to them, at least from a propaganda angle, and perhaps intelligence-wise as well. By now they've extracted all the value they were ever going to extract from him Symbols can stay valuable for a long time. A political refugee from the United States has all kinds of symbolic value, not least because we aren't willing to admit that there could be such a thing.
      • 6y ago
• 1MachineElf 6y ago
  Just do it.
• undoware 6y ago
  So, pol nerd here. What Trump is trying to do is access the libertarian/tech worker vote. Remember, relative to the rest of the population, we skew white, male, and affluent. Those, as he sees it, are his people. The problem is that libertarians, as (center or right-leaning) adversaries of authoritarianism, are not natural allies to a self-confessed admirer of Kim Jong Un, Xi Jinping, and Putin. The solution is as crass as it is obvious -- trade horses with the libertarian 'squad' in the GOP, and attempt to build a new alliance here even as the 2016 alliance with center-leaning, moderate college-educated white people is in tatters. The prototype for this attempt at bridge-building to our world is probably Elon Musk himself -- I recall the "red pill" tweet controversy from a few weeks back, it's still fresh somehow even despite all the goings-on. If I worked for Trump's campaign, and I wanted to further this strategy, I'd donate a bunch of money to Burning Man. In a crisis, everyone loves a solution, no matter how vile its provenance.
  • undoware 6y ago
    I'd be interested to know the rationale for the downvote.
    • duxup 6y ago
      I didn't vote but IMO the posts that are really certain of a specific agenda seem sort of less credible and just rando spin. Even a slight indication that you recognize your are guessing tends to illicit... better responses.
      • hombre_fatal 6y ago
        Yeah, the forum political expert analyst is such a boring trope. "So, pol nerd here!" —whoa, quite the credentials! It's just altogether offputting and exactly the thing we need less in discourse. We're all just guessing, so it goes a long way to admit that you realize that instead of sounding like the kind of person who thinks you're a "pol nerd" with their finger on the pulse because you do whatever you think you do that makes you an authority on the matter, like read Twitter.
    • 6y ago
• sneak 6y ago
  The CIA will instagib Snowden the instant it is physically possible for them to do so. A pardon will never change that. The commander of the CIA states it plainly: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/395683702757662721 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/39568370275766272... (Remember, we're talking about the same CIA that hacked US congressional computers, because the congress was investigating the CIA’s torture record and they wanted to cover it up. Then the CIA lied about hacking them. Then they later lied about lying about it.) The IC knows they would suffer zero consequences for his “heart attack”. Ed is far too smart to ever put himself in that situation. Thus, for practical purposes, such a pardon is irrelevant.
  • cryptonector 6y ago
    With a pardon he could travel. He wouldn't have to leave Russia either. In time those who want him dead might fade away. Even if he never left Russia, a pardon might sway some voters one way or the other. Of course a pardon is relevant! (Not saying he should be pardoned, or that he shouldn't be.)
  • dylan604 6y ago
    Except a pardon would mean he could move back to the US and leave Russia
    • sneak 6y ago
      Perhaps I wasn’t clear. If he ever sets foot in the US again, he will be quietly and instantly murdered by his former coworkers, even after he is pardoned.
      • learc83 6y ago
        What leaker or whistleblower has the CIA murdered? Why didn’t they murder Manning?
        • sneak 6y ago
          Manning was declared guilty in advance by the US president prior to her trial, and subsequently was tortured so badly prior to trial she tried to kill herself twice whilst imprisoned. https://www.politico.com/story/2011/04/obama-says-manning-broke-the-law-053601 https://www.politico.com/story/2011/04/obama-says-manning-br... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/mar/12/bradley-manning-cruel-inhuman-treatment-un https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/mar/12/bradley-mannin... She was reimprisoned after her pardon, where she was subjected again to inhumane treatment, and attempted suicide a third time as a result.
• mindcrime 6y ago
  I'll be impressed when he actually issues a pardon. I'd say Trump is notorious for "talking about" things without ever delivering anything. Take the issue of 50 state concealed carry reciprocity. Regardless of what you think about this issue yourself, it seems clear that Trump has tried to pander to gun owners and 2A advocates by constantly talking about this. But last I heard, there had been no meaningful action on it, or any reason to believe he was actually pushing his allies in Congress on the issue.
  • cryptonector 6y ago
    It's easy to promise controversial things that require Congressional action and cannot pass Congress. The President -no matter who they are or what Congressional action they promised- can't even push their allies in Congress to do something that can't work because of the filibuster or lack of sufficient majorities. Every candidate, and every President, promises things that they know Congress won't likely deliver -- cheap talk. But there are things they can do and so promises they can keep, so long as either they are sufficiently popular or do not require Congressional action.
    • mindcrime 6y ago
      What you say is true. And all I'm saying in turn is that Trump strikes me as being unusually insincere, even for a politician, in terms of the things he talks up and then never throws any meaningful support behind. Yes, all politicians pander, but I think this particular politician has made it an art form like few others.
      • cryptonector 6y ago
        Did you really think you were going to get carry reciprocity anytime soon? Could you not see then, and now, that that will require sizeable Republican majorities in the House and Senate, and that there was no way for Trump to move the needle on that issue all by himself, especially after the midterms? Carry reciprocity is kind of a niche issue, lacks enough popularity, and is hard to make more popular. Well, maybe now that the gun stores are empty and millions more are armed than were before March, maybe now carry reciprocity can become popular enough. Before March, the 2A was just barely popular enough to be difficult to gut. I dunno, if you really care about that one issue, you know Biden won't give it to you (he's not even promising it, and it's not something Democrats want, obviously, else it would have passed already). Trump can't give it to you unless the needle has moved a lot, which... maybe it just-now has. So if this is your one issue, I'm shocked you'd be so angry as to hold it against Trump that he's not been able to deliver it to you. There must be like, three people who care so much about just this one issue. Maybe you could use more issues to make up your mind.
• kgarten 6y ago
  Is it just me or is the term leaker politically charged in the context. For me, Snowden is a whistle blower not a leaker. There's a reason why he revealed secretes (he also didn't just release them, but was very careful how much he revealed), the secrete programs were unconstitutional -> whistle blower not leaker. edit: typo.
  • duxup 6y ago
    I've seen him refered to as a leaker before, I honestly didn't think much of it. I don't think that term is automatically negative.
    • stubish 6y ago
      Leaking is a common political tool, frequently seen in news, and popularized on shows such as the West Wing and Yes, Minister. It is only a negative when used against you.
  • boomboomsubban 6y ago
    Snowden's method of whistleblowing was leaking documents to the press. He is both.
    • runawaybottle 6y ago
      Was the Pentagon Papers a leak or whistleblowing? Seems like we have a precedent for this.
      • pyuser583 6y ago
        Both
        • emilsedgh 6y ago
          Using "leaker" instead of "whisteblower" is not necessarily wrong, just politically charged. Using "leaker" means you are ignoring that what he did was to blow whistle on illegal activities and only focusing on him.
• boomboomsubban 6y ago
  The Post conversation reads like Trump has just heard a pitch to attract voters, and wants to know which side of the argument could help him more.
  • pyuser583 6y ago
    Isn’t that how politicians are supposed to think? Isn’t the point of electing leaders to combine their self interest with the will of voters? When it comes to Snowden, and other national security issues, politicians aren’t frighted by voters enough.
  • ekianjo 6y ago
    Thats what all politicians do. They have market researches and bring up issues that are of concern to voters in times of elections.
    • boomboomsubban 6y ago
      Deciding your position on an issue and deciding whether an individual should face the justice system are two separate things to me.
• drewcoo 6y ago
  Even in the title, Reuters editorializes blatantly by labeling Snowden "leaker." And the downvotes here are already clearly politically motivated.
  • duxup 6y ago
    Personally I don't see leaker as an automatic pejorative.
    • SmokeyHamster 6y ago
      Agreed. There have been plenty of people labeled "leakers" inside the White House who have been celebrated by the media, like Eric Ciaramella.
      • duxup 6y ago
        Yeah I think of it as a verb, whatever good or bad is up to the person to interpret on their own.
  • briandear 6y ago
    Define the term leaker. And then address if Snowden was that. Motivation doesn’t change the definition of the term.
  • stjohnswarts 6y ago
    leaker is neutral, it's not a pejorative
• thrill 6y ago
  Trump would pardon Charles Manson if he thought it'd get him reelected.
  • C19is20 6y ago
    Any politician would. That's what they do.
  • lightgreen 6y ago
    This is just absurd. If moon was square, Trump would become a dolphin. This kind of statement. Pardoning Charles Manson won't help get anyone reelected. Saying what Trump would do "if" is just a demagogy.
• djsumdog 6y ago
  I honestly care more about Julian Assange. His own government turned their back on him. Snowden has been quite the show, enough so that I'm seriously wondering if he's actually a spook. His entire story is weird. He holds a six figure salary as an NSA contractor, suddenly has a moral compass, somehow downloads a bunch of top secret stuff while working remotely from Hawaii, leaks documents that are mostly redacted and missing critical information about compromised hardware, and is believed by the world wide media unilaterally without question. Then his smoking hot girlfriend says she wants to go join him. No one has found him yet while he does video conferencing using Google Hangouts. By contrast, Julian Assange was trapped in an Ecuadorian embassy for years. He's been though hell and his origination has leaked much more crucial information.
  • Dolores12 6y ago
    I hope Trump will do this at the end of his next term.
  • dannyw 6y ago
    Snowden went to Russia. Julian Assange couldn’t physically get out of a FVRY nation.
    • deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  • dboreham 6y ago
    Not sure why the downvotes. I've wondered if Snowden was running a sanctioned op since day 1. Heck even the movie floats this as a plot line (Nicolas Cage character).
• 627467 6y ago
  I'm not American so my opinion won't matter. Yet, in my view Snowden actions have been extremely important to set the discussions we are having today: how private do we expect our digital lives to be be it from the state or from megacorps. I doubt that Facebook/CA affair in 2016 elections would have come to light (or have the same impact) had Snowden leaks not had happened. I doubt that Europeans would have stoped being 100% subservient to American tech megacorps had those leaks not had happened. I think alot of people around the world started even considering the importance of who is watching or listening to their digital life because of Snowden. Or at least, because of the conversation that his leaks started. He wasnt alone in leaking information important to these conversations, but he definitely has become an important advocate of his leaks and his own message.
  • surround 6y ago
    A nice example is uBlock Origin, which was (probably) created as a result of the Snowden leaks. June 2013 - Snowden leaks NSA documents September 2013 - the first commit to the Script HQ extension is made (which soon became HTTP Switchboard, which later became uMatrix and uBlock) https://github.com/gorhill/httpswitchboard/commits/master?after=19d800213cafd4c20c2c3f2ab5201335ed0ac1b9+1385&branch=master https://github.com/gorhill/httpswitchboard/commits/master?af...
    • bzb4 6y ago
      Do you have any actual proof other than the fact the script was created months after the leaks?
      • surround 6y ago
        No, unfortunately. But people weren’t nearly as concerned about online privacy before Snowden.
    • compsciphd 6y ago
      ad blocking existed long before uBlock. uBlock was notable as being a more efficient way of doing it, not a more effective way (i.e. its still using the same form of block lists)
• s17n 6y ago
  If he actually does it I'll seriously considering voting for him. He won't, though.
  • jhardy54 6y ago
    This single issue is not worth overlooking the rest of Trump and the GOP.
    • C19is20 6y ago
      Any single issue, or even combination of several is why I have never, and never will vote.
      • SparkyMcUnicorn 6y ago
        Are you saying that you need to be in 100% agreement with a candidate in order to vote for them, and that'll never happen?
      • stjohnswarts 6y ago
        Please don't vote, with that attitude I'm not sure can ever pick a good candidate.
  • eagsalazar2 6y ago
    It is interesting, your comment is completely insane to me. Doesn't that seem strange to you too?
    • prokes 6y ago
      “Insanity is relative. It depends on who has who locked in what cage.” ― Ray Bradbury
    • eagsalazar2 6y ago
      It's also always interesting to watch one's comment score quickly bounce up and down by several points multiple times over just 30 minutes. Apparently this comment is controversial, heh.
• spicyramen 6y ago
  Trump is in campaign mode, he tried to get the Latino vote after Mexican president visit. His team understand that most SV and New York tech workers are not part of their voting base, but Snowden being an important figure in this area can help him win some votes. 88022
• coliveira 6y ago
  At least one good thing can come out of Trump's stupidity. It's absurd how badly they treated a whistle blower against the ilegal machinations of the NSA.
• brbsix 6y ago
  The response to this news on HN has been very disappointing. By contrast, there was a lively apolitical discussion[0] back in 2015 about the effort to bring Snowden back to the US. On the other hand, people now seem more concerned about the motivations of Trump. If it's the right thing to do, who cares about the motivation behind it or the person enacting it? This reminds me a little of the response to Trump's efforts to end the War in Afghanistan. I realize I'm not talking about individuals, but it's maddening to see communities that had almost universally supported both things for many years seemingly let political biases get in the way of doing the right thing. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9655693 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9655693
  • aoowii 6y ago
    I agree with you in principle, but how can you have an apolitical discussion on a topic that is fundamentally and inseparably political? It's a conversation on treason, presidential decisions, exile, intelligence organisations... It's always been political. Hypothetically the president might want to pardon Snowden and then change his mind when he is in the country, then yes I'd like to discuss his motivations. And people have been burned by this man before so I can't blame their biases.
  • Renaud 6y ago
    The main issue I see with Trump's support of anything is the impact this support has on the cause. I believe Snowden needs to be pardoned. He made the Public aware of the shady things that are done in its name. So the Public needs to pardon Snowden for being a whistleblower and this can be voiced through the President, who is supposed to be the ultimate voice representing the Public and its interests. However, Trumps motivations for doing anything have been fickle and marred in short-term political or personal popularity gain, sometimes to the detriment of the very thing he is supporting. So supporting a pardon for Snowden is great but the reasons for doing so are really not clear and -as usual- not articulated in any sensible and reasonable way. Maybe I'm wrong but this looks more like a political diversion to me, maybe a way to divert the outrage when he pardonned Stone -clearly a shady character if there was one- or just keep the news busy for a while.
• sabujp 6y ago
  ObamaCare is a disaster and Snowden is a spy who should be executed-but if it and he could reveal Obama's records,I might become a major fan Trump needs to be held criminally liable for letting thousands die unnecessarily due to covid.
  • lightgreen 6y ago
    As well as several other country leaders, e. g. presidents/PMs of UK, Italy, France etc.
    • tigershark 6y ago
      I don’t recall any of them telling everyone not to use the masks after their efficacy was proven. Trump stance on masks killed thousands of people.
      • lightgreen 6y ago
        Can you please share a link supporting your statement? AFAIR the efficiency of masks was not proven until recently and in the beginning of pandemic even WHO recommended against masks. Anyway, accusing Trump of thousand deaths because of what he said is just naive. If he was obviously wrong he wound be corrected by press, local governments, senators etc.
        • sabujp 6y ago
          hah seriously? rest of the world knew for decades that masks were effective. It's practically ingrained into asian cultures. WHO recommended against masks because they didn't want a shortage for medical professionals, again you're being really naive.
• glaive123 6y ago
  This is not news. Let's see him actually pardon Snowden, then talk about it.
  • jjordan 6y ago
    Considering 3-4 years ago he referred to him as a traitor, I'd say the significant shift in stance is news. Should a pardon happen, this would set an important precedent for future whistleblowers and for the rule of law in the often obfuscated corners of the federal government. Support the efforts of Rand Paul and Thomas Massie, who have already publicly stated their support for a Presidential pardon in this case.
    • deelowe 6y ago
      I think after 3 and 1/2 years, we'd all recognize by now that Trump more often than not says things just to stir up controversy. As others have said, this isn't newsworthy until he actually does something.
      • Lammy 6y ago
        If stirring that controversy means reigniting debate about our collective surveillance apparatus then I'm not sure how I should feel :)
        • bobthepanda 6y ago
          Usually the "stirring up controversy" isn't on the merits of whatever the controversy is itself, but to draw attention away from some other controversy, like the whole USPS debacle.
    • bobthepanda 6y ago
      Given how Trump constantly flip-flops on various issues it's not unwarranted to be skeptical that this is actually going to happen.
  • surround 6y ago
• pfarnsworth 6y ago
  No he didn't, he said no such thing. If you listen to the video, all he did was say he knows nothing about the issues, but he'll "look into it." That's his standard line. He wasn't actually saying he was considering it at all. Honestly, I don't think he would really have any intention to pardon Snowden. It gains him no points with the left, and would damage him with his base supporters. That's probably why the media reported it, to try to get his supporters upset at him. It's the same thing with the whole manufactured outrage of Kamala Harris and the question posed to him by the reporter. Trump didn't even mention Harris, and the reporter brought it up and asked him whether he heard about the report. Trump said that he knew nothing about it, and he would have assumed that the Democrats would have already validated Harris' eligibility, but he would "look into it." He never even made a point about it, it was obvious it was a non-issue to him. It's a meaningless statement that the media tries to use to make him look bad, and meanwhile it just lets his supporters keep saying that the media lies, which is true when they bend the truth like they do.
  • dboreham 6y ago
    You're being nieve. The reporters are set up by the wh staff to "ask" these questions then wh staff whisper to media to cover the non-answer.
  • krick 6y ago
    I didn't see the video, but if it's true it's extremely funny (and wording @ reuters suggests it is exactly true). Nothing happened, then journalists (as usual) created a catchy title and extremely misleading news-story out of it, and here now HN users are all over themselves having a lively discussion and angrily arguing about the topic and hardly anybody even bothered to verify it.
• asgard1024 6y ago
  I think that Trump believes that Snowden is a Russian spy, because he cannot imagine (given their different personalities) that somebody would do what Snowden did just for intrinsic reasons. So Trump is trying to make a deal with Snowden - find some dirt on Democrats (Obama administration) during election, and I will pardon you. However, Snowden is most likely not a spy, so no way this is gonna happen.
• klyrs 6y ago
  Trump doesn't do U-turns, he does donuts. Wake me up when he actually pardons Snowden; this isn't news.
• coronadisaster 6y ago
  Also repeal the "PATRIOT" Act while you're thinking about doing the right thing...
  • insickness 6y ago
    Presidents can't repeal laws. Only congress can do that.
    • coronadisaster 6y ago
      But in this case, the president can get rid of it because it expires periodically and all he has to do is not sign the extension. But unfortunately, I don't think that he will need to sign it before the next election and also, they often include a bunch of unrelated stuff in the bill: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/11/21/fund-n21.html https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/11/21/fund-n21.html. Obama promised to let it die... but he didn't.
    • stjohnswarts 6y ago
      No but they can stop enforcement of them as they control NSA, FBI, SS, etc. Even a reprieve from the injustice would be nice and maybe they could even set a precedent that would help democracy and privacy concerns
• krick 6y ago
  I agree with all these "wake me up when it happens" poster, because I just generally don't like "nothing happened" news. But seriously, say Trump (or whoever might have been in his place) actually wants to do this as a populistic move: is it hard to do? Does it require any bureaucratic bullshit, arguing with people, forcing stuff, or is it just some paper to sign and it's done? Does it require any effort (and how much) on his side to actually pardon Snowden?
  • cryptonector 6y ago
    If you'd been paying attention you'd know that the President has the absolute, unquestionable power to pardon offenses against the United States, which specifically means: offences under Federal law, but not offenses under State law.
    • krick 6y ago
      I have absolutely zero idea what that means. So does it require some effort from him to pardon Snowden or not?
      • frank2 6y ago
        No! All he has to do is sign a piece of paper.
        • cryptonector 6y ago
          It can even be on a paper napkin. Most pardons involve process though. Felons apply for a pardon, there's a small board to review applications, most are rejected -- that sort of thing. But the President can pardon anyone, at any time, for any Federal crime they have been charged with, before during or after trial (if convicted).
    • koheripbal 6y ago
      This was an idea floated recently in a backlash against the President looking to pardon Paul Manafort. ...but it is unclear if it holds any legal water. The reality is that it is legally untested, and there's a good chance that Double Jeopardy will protect someone who's pardoned Federally, and then brought up on State charges for the same offense. I might be wrong, but I don't believe there's ever been a case of a State prosecute even attempting to charge someone at the State level with an crime they've already been pardoned of by the President.
• lazyjones 6y ago
  Snowden is doing OK apparently, he should pardon Assange - who is not so well - quickly.
  • Daviey 6y ago
    Trump did love Wikileaks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnEoVzLKNPw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnEoVzLKNPw
  • ruairispain 6y ago
    Assigned that funneled info between Russian and the Trump campaign. Yeah, let's pardon the bastard that helped give us TRUMP!
• kgwxd 6y ago
  It's obviously some kind of campaign tactic. Appeal to the nerds.
• LOVV 6y ago
  Well, to pardon someone they first need to pass a sentence, right? This didn’t happen yet, and the process would probably take longer than Trump‘s current term. Can someone who is familiar with the US law system shine some light on this matter?
  • sneak 6y ago
    No, one can be pardoned at any time. I thought otherwise until recently, as well.
    • LOVV 6y ago
      Thanks a lot for the clarification.
• hi41 6y ago
  I am excited by this development. Snowden is a patriot by becoming a whistle blower. I am also saddened by Obama’s complete refusal to pardon Snowden. Why would Obama who is a progressive leader not pardon Snowden. That was a hard thing for me to swallow. I hope Trump hurries and gets it done asap. Snowden has suffered a lot for his ethical actions. I hope he gets to come home and not suffer anymore.