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A robust infrastructure should be able to handle surge loads. This isn't an extraordinary heat wave after some other natural disaster has directly damaged the

A robust infrastructure should be able to handle surge loads. This isn't an extraordinary heat wave after some other natural disaster has directly damaged the power grid; it's that the grid as designed and built can't handle this load. It's hardly conclusive for a "grand decline" narrative, of course, since this is just one anecdote for an entire society.

khuey 6y ago
Do we really need to pay for an electric grid that can handle a once every 20 year load?
- pwarner 6y ago
  That's the real question. Even 1 in 10 year load, do you build for it or just live with it? It's just a $ decision.
- manquer 6y ago
  Grid yes , maybe not the power plants themselves. Typically in robust networks you have good interconnects to neighbours you can purchase power from . Also robust grid which enables selling back to the grid would have helped, such extreme hot weather goes in hand with solar generation
  - khuey 6y ago
    The problem is not lack of grid capacity. California is capable of importing upwards of 11 GW[0] but there was only around 8 GW[1] available yesterday because it's hot in neighboring states like Oregon too. The load shedding occurred around 8-10pm after the sun has gone down (but while it's still quite hot) so more solar wouldn't help much. [0] http://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.aspx http://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.aspx and select 9/13/2019 [1] Same as above but select 8/14/2020.
- AngryData 6y ago
  Do you really need to pay for house wiring that can handle a once every 20 year load? Pretty sure you would change your tune when the wiring melts in one of your walls.
  - khuey 6y ago
    This is why houses have circuit breakers, which are functionally identical to the load shedding we had last night ...
- cableshaft 6y ago
  Thanks to climate change, this is probably not going to continue to be a 1 in 20 year load. Expect this to be more and more frequent over the coming years. Might be an every year and/or multiple times a year thing within the next decade or two. I've read some predictions that suggest these heat waves becoming a regular thing could happen within the next five years, but I'm sticking with more conservative predictions.
SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
I think you're misunderstanding how power grids work. There's no way to stockpile large supplies of power like you can with food and water; to first order, all electricity that's produced today has to be consumed today. So it's an impossible task to have enough capacity available for arbitrary demand surges. It's not just a matter of shoveling coal in the furnaces twice as fast or drawing down the local power reservoirs.

khuey 6y ago

Do we really need to pay for an electric grid that can handle a once every 20 year load?

pwarner 6y ago
That's the real question. Even 1 in 10 year load, do you build for it or just live with it? It's just a $ decision.
manquer 6y ago
Grid yes , maybe not the power plants themselves. Typically in robust networks you have good interconnects to neighbours you can purchase power from . Also robust grid which enables selling back to the grid would have helped, such extreme hot weather goes in hand with solar generation
- khuey 6y ago
  The problem is not lack of grid capacity. California is capable of importing upwards of 11 GW[0] but there was only around 8 GW[1] available yesterday because it's hot in neighboring states like Oregon too. The load shedding occurred around 8-10pm after the sun has gone down (but while it's still quite hot) so more solar wouldn't help much. [0] http://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.aspx http://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.aspx and select 9/13/2019 [1] Same as above but select 8/14/2020.
AngryData 6y ago
Do you really need to pay for house wiring that can handle a once every 20 year load? Pretty sure you would change your tune when the wiring melts in one of your walls.
- khuey 6y ago
  This is why houses have circuit breakers, which are functionally identical to the load shedding we had last night ...
cableshaft 6y ago
Thanks to climate change, this is probably not going to continue to be a 1 in 20 year load. Expect this to be more and more frequent over the coming years. Might be an every year and/or multiple times a year thing within the next decade or two. I've read some predictions that suggest these heat waves becoming a regular thing could happen within the next five years, but I'm sticking with more conservative predictions.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

I think you're misunderstanding how power grids work. There's no way to stockpile large supplies of power like you can with food and water; to first order, all electricity that's produced today has to be consumed today. So it's an impossible task to have enough capacity available for arbitrary demand surges. It's not just a matter of shoveling coal in the furnaces twice as fast or drawing down the local power reservoirs.