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Not enough foreigners applied for H1B visas this year, govt ran a second lottery

72 points by jeffreygoesto 6y ago

Kapura 6y ago
Nothing could paint a clearer picture than this: America is no longer a place that smart people want to move to. Quite the opposite, in fact. I think that, regardless of how the election shapes up this year, next year will see an enormous uptick in the number of Americans emigrating to a country less burdened with problems of its own making.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  You don't think it had anything to do with the fact that there's a pandemic on?
  - asimpletune 6y ago
    If anything the pandemic is an even better indicator of US decline.
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      I don't think the decline narrative makes sense here. Most of the H1B applicants would have been from India, where the pandemic isn't any better controlled.
- amir734jj 6y ago
  Universities pay better in China, South Korea and Canada for professors to do research. I personally know people who moved out of United States after getting PhD and postdoc to those countries.
  - actuator 6y ago
    I am surprised to see Canada there. Jobs in tech in Canada pay lte half of the comps in US. Between SK and China, SK's per capita income is not far off from US but China's is. I am surprised China is able to compete better than US purely on financial might.
    - amir734jj 6y ago
      Not everyone goes to be a professor at MIT or Harvard. State Universities actually don't pay good and it's hard to get tenure (literally have to wait for someone to get retired or die ...)
    - oneplane 6y ago
      There is the uncertainty and high cost of living in the USA as well, so having a high salary isn't the big factor people always make it out to be. If you make 1000000 but all of that does down the drain because the country you earn it in doesn't have common facilities available you end up with a pretty bad bottom line.
    - vsskanth 6y ago
      For Canada, its not always about comp. If you're Indian there is a 100+ year (projected) waitlist for US permanent residency. Chinese have a 5 year waitlist and every other nationality has no waitlist. This means for the whole waiting period you need to be employed (in a job that's related to your degree) or you lose legal status. Compare this to Canada where you arrive with permanent residency, have good healthcare and don't have to worry about losing your residence. Easier to put down roots. The best deal is for those who earn their stock grants in the US and make a mid-career move to Canada. They start with a good asset base.
      - actuator 6y ago
        That is very specific to Indians. What percentage of them make up the people in unis/research? From your comment it seems like rest aren't that affected by this. The stock grants in US ones definitely are better off, a lot of Europeans also use this and go back.
- hellofunk 6y ago
  First half of 2020 also a 6X increase in the number of Americans giving up their citizenship compared to the prior year.
  - dominotw 6y ago
    heard the same thing in 2015 http://www.allgov.com/news/us-and-the-world/record-number-of-americans-giving-up-citizenship-150510?news=856444 http://www.allgov.com/news/us-and-the-world/record-number-of... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-07/americans-abroad-top-quarterly-record-for-giving-up-citizenship https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-07/americans... another one from 2017 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/02/10/a-potentially-historic-number-of-people-are-giving-up-their-u-s-citizenship/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/02/10... > compared to the prior year why only compare it to previous year? Previous year was the lowest. ~450 compared to ~3500 in 2014. Alternate headline from last year: CNN: Record number of americans not giving up citizenship .A fall of 600% compared to Obama presidency.
- dominotw 6y ago
  > America is no longer a place that smart people want to move to. It still is. you theory is that it suddenly stopped being that country suddenly from April of this year? Totally absurd logic. Check back how many ppl apply for h1b next year when pandemic is over.
  - gambiting 6y ago
    Obviously this is a sample of size one, but growing up my dream was to move to the US. Now I wouldn't move there no matter what. Maybe for some absolutely stupid amount of money, but that's true of literally anywhere. Edit: actually, it's a bit more than one - I have friends who work for SV companies in their London offices and they all rejected real offers to move to US(with an increase in pay) citing issues plaguing the country. My cousin had a transfer visa already arranged and ready and changed his mind for the same reason - US is just not an attractive country to move to. Or at least in my mind it's equal to Russia as a place to live in - I'd consider it for good money but it's not normally on my list because it seems like the systematic issues of the country are off putting.
    - dominotw 6y ago
      > Now I wouldn't move there no matter what. Maybe for some absolutely stupid amount of money. :) stupid amount of money , what would this be for you, compared to current amount of money you make? > with an increase in pay Maybe they were low balled. I will bet my house that they will move to SV in a heartbeat if they were paid what SV engineers get paid. Just wait till pandemic is over.
      - gambiting 6y ago
        I don't even know, I have everything I need, I honestly don't see or have a need to change a job for more money. If someone offered me 500k I'd obviously give it a serious consideration because that's "stupid amount of money", but even then I'd do it for a year or two and come back(I could get several houses for that amount of money here lol). But like I said, that's true of anywhere - offer me 500k and I'll work in North Korea for a bit. >>. I will bet my house that they will move to SV in a heartbeat if they were paid what SV engineers get paid I don't know, I have a friend who moved from a £50k/year job in UK to a $250k/year job in the US(SV) and he's currently planning to move back, he massively dislikes everything about working and living in the US. Money isn't everything. But of course, these are anecdotes.
- secondcoming 6y ago
  Well, there's no way that me, a white guy, would go to work for FAANG in Silicon Valley. An office abroad, sure, but not there.
- sremani 6y ago
  1. H1-B is time bound , 3yrs with 3 yr renewal 2. I may be wrong, but if you get H1 completely approved the clock starts ticking even if you are unable to travel to US 3. Looks like students\ppl already here picked up, and those coming from outside did not because in spite of having sponsor (a consulting company), they have to find job in pandemic job market and of course travel restrictions. America is still the place smart people want to come. edit: i would appreciate feedback while you downvote me, what the disagreement is.
- LoSboccacc 6y ago
  so how would I go and apply for a visa then beyond the green card lottery? seems a great moment to get there. the situation will solve itself sooner or later and at that point you'd be in ahead of the frontline
- wdr1 6y ago
  > Nothing could paint a clearer picture than this: America is no longer a place that smart people want to move to Poppycock. That runs counter to the article's statement there were a record number of applications. Something happened between the application deadline in early April & now, and that something is quite obviously COVID-19.
unchocked 6y ago
The article says there was a record high number of applicants. But of those selected, too may abandoned their applications. Bailing on a move to the US because of an unchecked pandemic certainly makes sense. I don't think this really fuels the American decline narrative any more than the unchecked pandemic itself does.
- humanlion87 6y ago
  And I am guessing quite a few jobs were lost during this time period. So the companies might not have completed the application after being selected in the lottery.
oblio 6y ago
Does the US have a points based visa system?
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  It does not. In general, visa holders can't be sure they'll get one until it's in their hand.
- actuator 6y ago
  If you meant akin to Japan, Australia. No.
- CountSessine 6y ago
  No. One was drafted in 2013 by Obama but it never made it to a vote in Congress.
  - winter_blue 6y ago
    It was passed by the Senate with 68 votes (a filibuster proof majority). Republican xenophobia in the House led to it never being allowed a vote. It would’ve passed the House without question had it been allowed a vote.
    - oblio 6y ago
      Why was it shot down? In practice it should limit immigration and the people that make it should generally be the kind of people you want to attract: highly educated, skilled, etc.
- vsskanth 6y ago
  US permanent visa (green card) system is primarily family oriented (immediate relatives of US citizens). US hands out a million green cards a year but only ~140K is for employment. Even that slice doesn't have any kind of points based prioritization.
angel_j 6y ago
H1B is screwing generations of US tech workers, and dampening STEM initiatives which is really going to hurt the economy later when we need skilled labor and innovation at another scale. We need to hire and train US. Anyone can learn the skills, why are we rewarding education in other countries? Why are we drowning a hot job market and neutering the innovation industry?
- harichinnan 6y ago
  Agree. H1B goes to some sketchy companies and for jobs that replace Americans. The lottery is the culprit here. Companies that face skills shortage don't get enough H1Bs. Many H1Bs like myself were educated at taxpayer expense in their native countries. US essentially gets them for free to help fuel silicon valley and other tech hubs. Skills shortage is real. If you are in a position to hire people, you would understand. You can't train people to perform at a silicon valley interview level no matter how much money you pour into training courses. Proper education from a university is needed to clear the high bar for most people. Free college education like in government run colleges in India would solve some of the skills shortage.
  - peteradio 6y ago
    What skills shortage have you witnessed?
  - baskire 6y ago
    There’s no skills shortage. Just an unwillingness to take a risk on someone outside the normal profile. I’ve done interviews where we passed on a candidate who’d be educated and onboarded within 1.5 years. Except nobody wanted to take that risk as we’d rather hire the person who can start today. If there was no h1b program, we’d of hired that American and trained them.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      And as soon as that person got trained, they would jump ship.
  - 6y ago
williesleg 6y ago
Good. They're all worthless, all of the ones I've seen lie and cheat on their resume, code crap code, and just do the needful. Fix India before you try to "fix" the USA.
jakearmitage 6y ago
The amount of hatred towards America in this circle is astonishing, and the schadenfreude just feels like a drug. I honestly don't understand, I keep trying to imagine how it would feel if people were like that towards my country.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  I think much of the hatred you're seeing comes from Americans, who are frustrated and lashing out because the country won't implement the pandemic control policies they'd like. Most non-Americans I know understand it's cruel and unhelpful to say "hah, you guys have a deadly disease spreading! what idiots!"
  - mardifoufs 6y ago
    To be honest, I don't think americans know what they have. I totally understand wanting to get even better and fixing all the stuff that's broken in american society! But the self hatred and continuous bashing is almost annoying at this point. I mean it's crazy to see in this thread some who actually believe H1Bs are down because people don't want to live in the US anymore. It's completely detached from the reality where hundreds of millions, or even billions would do a lot to have the opportunity to move to the US. It really comes from a position of privilege in my opinion.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- dominotw 6y ago
  its coming from jealous people. People doing the same CRUD api jobs in some other country for 30k/yr max.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    Yes because all of the developers here live on the west coast and make $500K a year.
fizixer 6y ago
Did they legally have to "reach the numerical allocations"? Or is it that H1B employers have enough of a powerful lobby that USCIS had no choice? (since I assume current administration would've been content with under-utilization this year).
- diebeforei485 6y ago
  Yeah. This has been done before.
- winter_blue 6y ago
  The law actually requires that visa applications be denied once the numerical limit is reached. So, no, USCIS cannot legally start denying visa applications (on grounds of the limit being reached) until the numerical limit has been reached. It’s actually an absurd and cruel thing that there is even such a ridiculous numerical limit, and one that is extremely small in per capita terms. Most developed countries don’t have such limits. Both Canada and Australia granted more visa applications than the US. The numerical limit (along with other restrictions) has resulted in a lottery, which in turn led to many people who studied in the US getting effectively deported (as they had no way to stay without a work visa). People with a PhD from Harvard and MIT with a $250k+ jobs (or job offers) have gotten deported because of the absurd numerical limit on H-1B visas. Your idiotic opinions on immigration come across as grossly xenophobic. Since Trump got elected people have been getting denied for absurd joke reasons. I myself was denied a $200k+ job and had to leave / got effectively deported from the US. And I am someone who has spent over 10 years in the US on visas. I’m sure you’ll celebrate my suffering.
magtux 6y ago
I mean it makes sense to me. I chose to work in Ireland in tech rather than America. Yes I took a 20% paycut after adjusting for COL but as an Indian, it's a much nicer country. There is a clear, well defined process. You get a permanent residency after 2 years and can apply for naturalisation after 5. The government is not actively hostile to immigrants, no stste violence, negligible prejudice and a very friendly people. A lot of my friends who did their masters in the US are trying to move out as well due to the visa process. You can't live forever on a H1B. Canada seems to be the country of choice for those moving out. Money can only go so far, you need peace of mind. You can't build your life on a temporary foundation. Also one other recent phenomenon is that you can make boatload of money staying in India and working for a startup. So the incentive to go to the US is lesser atleast for the cream of the talent from the top universities.
- vsskanth 6y ago
  Totally agree. USA was the default option in the 2000s but in 2020 there are a lot of competitive options for high skilled employment (including staying back in India). There seems to be lot more awareness in India about H1B issues and the impossibility of getting PR in the USA for indians.
- addicted 6y ago
  Pretty much all our H1B employees from India are looking to move to Canada but our Canadian offices have run out of space. Ireland may be a good suggestion as well. Add in visa free travel to all of Europe and it’s probably a great experience.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- dominotw 6y ago
  > I mean it makes sense to me. All the reasons you citied for why it makes sense were true in april of 2020 too when H1B was oversubscribed by multiple factors. So how does it make sense to you? Its not like indians were getting Green cards in 2 yrs in april. Correct explanation imo is drop in outsourcing contracts due to pandemic. TCS, Wipro don't need h1b anymore. https://infotechlead.com/bpo/infosys-reveals-some-clients-seek-price-cuts-or-drop-deals-61543 https://infotechlead.com/bpo/infosys-reveals-some-clients-se...
returningfory2 6y ago
The title is slightly inaccurate. "Foreigners" do not submit H-1B petitions. Their sponsoring employers do. The fact that the numerical limit was not reached does not mean workers don't want to come to the US. It means that, in light of COVID, their employers no longer want them and so did not pursue the H-1B petition after it was selected.
porksoda 6y ago
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the USA, but your towns and cities are full of rule-followers doing herd-passive-aggressive self-enforcement, and live-and-let-live is a rare feeling. The article is right, it's probably corona and other issues causing the shortfall, but having watched your guy bringing that undercurrent of nastiness out into the open, is anyone actually surprised by this? I moved from Nicaragua to Mexico before Corona, and I'm waiting it out here: I was so surprised by this place (and by Nica before it). There surely is a lot of asylum woe on the border, but I can't really believe anyone would want to leave here and go there, and nor can any of the other delightful cultured sweet kind and wonderful "bad hombres" who live here.
- nomoreservices 6y ago
  > your towns and cities are full of rule-followers doing herd-passive-aggressive self-enforcement, and live-and-let-live is a rare feeling Can you give examples of what you mean by that? I've been living in the US (Seattle area) for over 7 years and haven't felt that at all.
  - porksoda 6y ago
    OK, seattle; Washington State is one of my favorite places. I'm african, I didn't think twice: I mistakenly walked out of the bar with my beer in my hand, to fetch something from the car. The ten minute fiasco that followed, during which I was not permitted to re-enter the bar with my beer, but not permitted to put my beer in the trash can, nor permitted to "finish it" and throw the can away, I had to "pass it over the line" with outstreched arms, as though it was radioactive. (edit: mis-remembered. I actually had to pass it over the wall that surrounded the entrance, not over the entranceway itself. Maybe that's part of the rules). There were no cops on the scene, but I FELT we were on the verge of someone calling nine-fucking-one-one. In order to re-enter the pub (closest to my airbnb), I had to "ask forgiveness", and I was "lucky enough" to have it bestowed on me. Honestly I felt like a forty year old child.
    - porksoda 6y ago
      The thing I confabulated this with, was a memory of a TSA agent and I, exchanging a "forbidden" item. That was also really weird, though I kind of get why the overreaction exists; surely someone in an airport somewhere's died of a keychain-pocket-knife before.
swilliamsio 6y ago
Other people in this thread have mentioned the pandemic, but I'd argue the highly publicised Black Lives Matter protests are having a big effect in pushing away foreigners as well.
thrwlkan3n 6y ago
I am an Indian who worked in US for 6+ years. Got frustrated with the h1b process and the way my employer treated me and left everything behind without even a job lined up in India. The last 1 year consisted of my GC application first stage getting denied, 3 months appeal, get i140, file h1b extension, get RFEd, cannot renew license for 3 months until I get the h1b again. Finally after an year of uncertainty, got my h1b for 3 more years, packed up and left the next month. Even though I didn't have a job in India (didn't even look for one), I was completely in peace, no unending emotional pain with tears in my eyes, no stress, anxiety, no suicidal thoughts. Then one day my previous employer called me back, and I came back, because I cared for the project. 3 months later, homeland security (ICE) raided the office. Showed up suddenly, ordered us to stop everything we are doing, took all of us into a conference room. Wouldn't allow to even go for a bathroom break without them accompanying us. Questioned everyone. They were asking questions like 'are we paid enough, do we have any relatives in the office, am I staying alone or with other colleagues' and so on - the kind of things I see in twitter and other places where the anti h1b folks talk about us - that we all stay together because we don't get paid enough or nepotism and so on. The funny thing is even when I came back, I had no intention of staying in US for more than 3 years. I told the officers we are having a baby due in 2 months, and they are in India, hoping they would understand that I am there only for work, and has no intention to settle down. We didn't want the baby to be born in US and become a US citizen. I look forward to an India were we won't have to rely on foreigners any more.

72 points by jeffreygoesto 6y ago

Nothing could paint a clearer picture than this: America is no longer a place that smart people want to move to. Quite the opposite, in fact. I think that, regardless of how the election shapes up this year, next year will see an enormous uptick in the number of Americans emigrating to a country less burdened with problems of its own making.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
You don't think it had anything to do with the fact that there's a pandemic on?
- asimpletune 6y ago
  If anything the pandemic is an even better indicator of US decline.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    I don't think the decline narrative makes sense here. Most of the H1B applicants would have been from India, where the pandemic isn't any better controlled.
amir734jj 6y ago
Universities pay better in China, South Korea and Canada for professors to do research. I personally know people who moved out of United States after getting PhD and postdoc to those countries.
- actuator 6y ago
  I am surprised to see Canada there. Jobs in tech in Canada pay lte half of the comps in US. Between SK and China, SK's per capita income is not far off from US but China's is. I am surprised China is able to compete better than US purely on financial might.
  - amir734jj 6y ago
    Not everyone goes to be a professor at MIT or Harvard. State Universities actually don't pay good and it's hard to get tenure (literally have to wait for someone to get retired or die ...)
  - oneplane 6y ago
    There is the uncertainty and high cost of living in the USA as well, so having a high salary isn't the big factor people always make it out to be. If you make 1000000 but all of that does down the drain because the country you earn it in doesn't have common facilities available you end up with a pretty bad bottom line.
  - vsskanth 6y ago
    For Canada, its not always about comp. If you're Indian there is a 100+ year (projected) waitlist for US permanent residency. Chinese have a 5 year waitlist and every other nationality has no waitlist. This means for the whole waiting period you need to be employed (in a job that's related to your degree) or you lose legal status. Compare this to Canada where you arrive with permanent residency, have good healthcare and don't have to worry about losing your residence. Easier to put down roots. The best deal is for those who earn their stock grants in the US and make a mid-career move to Canada. They start with a good asset base.
    - actuator 6y ago
      That is very specific to Indians. What percentage of them make up the people in unis/research? From your comment it seems like rest aren't that affected by this. The stock grants in US ones definitely are better off, a lot of Europeans also use this and go back.
hellofunk 6y ago
First half of 2020 also a 6X increase in the number of Americans giving up their citizenship compared to the prior year.
- dominotw 6y ago
  heard the same thing in 2015 http://www.allgov.com/news/us-and-the-world/record-number-of-americans-giving-up-citizenship-150510?news=856444 http://www.allgov.com/news/us-and-the-world/record-number-of... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-07/americans-abroad-top-quarterly-record-for-giving-up-citizenship https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-07/americans... another one from 2017 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/02/10/a-potentially-historic-number-of-people-are-giving-up-their-u-s-citizenship/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/02/10... > compared to the prior year why only compare it to previous year? Previous year was the lowest. ~450 compared to ~3500 in 2014. Alternate headline from last year: CNN: Record number of americans not giving up citizenship .A fall of 600% compared to Obama presidency.
dominotw 6y ago
> America is no longer a place that smart people want to move to. It still is. you theory is that it suddenly stopped being that country suddenly from April of this year? Totally absurd logic. Check back how many ppl apply for h1b next year when pandemic is over.
- gambiting 6y ago
  Obviously this is a sample of size one, but growing up my dream was to move to the US. Now I wouldn't move there no matter what. Maybe for some absolutely stupid amount of money, but that's true of literally anywhere. Edit: actually, it's a bit more than one - I have friends who work for SV companies in their London offices and they all rejected real offers to move to US(with an increase in pay) citing issues plaguing the country. My cousin had a transfer visa already arranged and ready and changed his mind for the same reason - US is just not an attractive country to move to. Or at least in my mind it's equal to Russia as a place to live in - I'd consider it for good money but it's not normally on my list because it seems like the systematic issues of the country are off putting.
  - dominotw 6y ago
    > Now I wouldn't move there no matter what. Maybe for some absolutely stupid amount of money. :) stupid amount of money , what would this be for you, compared to current amount of money you make? > with an increase in pay Maybe they were low balled. I will bet my house that they will move to SV in a heartbeat if they were paid what SV engineers get paid. Just wait till pandemic is over.
    - gambiting 6y ago
      I don't even know, I have everything I need, I honestly don't see or have a need to change a job for more money. If someone offered me 500k I'd obviously give it a serious consideration because that's "stupid amount of money", but even then I'd do it for a year or two and come back(I could get several houses for that amount of money here lol). But like I said, that's true of anywhere - offer me 500k and I'll work in North Korea for a bit. >>. I will bet my house that they will move to SV in a heartbeat if they were paid what SV engineers get paid I don't know, I have a friend who moved from a £50k/year job in UK to a $250k/year job in the US(SV) and he's currently planning to move back, he massively dislikes everything about working and living in the US. Money isn't everything. But of course, these are anecdotes.
secondcoming 6y ago
Well, there's no way that me, a white guy, would go to work for FAANG in Silicon Valley. An office abroad, sure, but not there.
sremani 6y ago
1. H1-B is time bound , 3yrs with 3 yr renewal 2. I may be wrong, but if you get H1 completely approved the clock starts ticking even if you are unable to travel to US 3. Looks like students\ppl already here picked up, and those coming from outside did not because in spite of having sponsor (a consulting company), they have to find job in pandemic job market and of course travel restrictions. America is still the place smart people want to come. edit: i would appreciate feedback while you downvote me, what the disagreement is.
LoSboccacc 6y ago
so how would I go and apply for a visa then beyond the green card lottery? seems a great moment to get there. the situation will solve itself sooner or later and at that point you'd be in ahead of the frontline
wdr1 6y ago
> Nothing could paint a clearer picture than this: America is no longer a place that smart people want to move to Poppycock. That runs counter to the article's statement there were a record number of applications. Something happened between the application deadline in early April & now, and that something is quite obviously COVID-19.

unchocked 6y ago

The article says there was a record high number of applicants. But of those selected, too may abandoned their applications. Bailing on a move to the US because of an unchecked pandemic certainly makes sense. I don't think this really fuels the American decline narrative any more than the unchecked pandemic itself does.

humanlion87 6y ago
And I am guessing quite a few jobs were lost during this time period. So the companies might not have completed the application after being selected in the lottery.

oblio 6y ago

Does the US have a points based visa system?

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
It does not. In general, visa holders can't be sure they'll get one until it's in their hand.
actuator 6y ago
If you meant akin to Japan, Australia. No.
CountSessine 6y ago
No. One was drafted in 2013 by Obama but it never made it to a vote in Congress.
- winter_blue 6y ago
  It was passed by the Senate with 68 votes (a filibuster proof majority). Republican xenophobia in the House led to it never being allowed a vote. It would’ve passed the House without question had it been allowed a vote.
  - oblio 6y ago
    Why was it shot down? In practice it should limit immigration and the people that make it should generally be the kind of people you want to attract: highly educated, skilled, etc.
vsskanth 6y ago
US permanent visa (green card) system is primarily family oriented (immediate relatives of US citizens). US hands out a million green cards a year but only ~140K is for employment. Even that slice doesn't have any kind of points based prioritization.

angel_j 6y ago

H1B is screwing generations of US tech workers, and dampening STEM initiatives which is really going to hurt the economy later when we need skilled labor and innovation at another scale. We need to hire and train US. Anyone can learn the skills, why are we rewarding education in other countries? Why are we drowning a hot job market and neutering the innovation industry?

harichinnan 6y ago
Agree. H1B goes to some sketchy companies and for jobs that replace Americans. The lottery is the culprit here. Companies that face skills shortage don't get enough H1Bs. Many H1Bs like myself were educated at taxpayer expense in their native countries. US essentially gets them for free to help fuel silicon valley and other tech hubs. Skills shortage is real. If you are in a position to hire people, you would understand. You can't train people to perform at a silicon valley interview level no matter how much money you pour into training courses. Proper education from a university is needed to clear the high bar for most people. Free college education like in government run colleges in India would solve some of the skills shortage.
- peteradio 6y ago
  What skills shortage have you witnessed?
- baskire 6y ago
  There’s no skills shortage. Just an unwillingness to take a risk on someone outside the normal profile. I’ve done interviews where we passed on a candidate who’d be educated and onboarded within 1.5 years. Except nobody wanted to take that risk as we’d rather hire the person who can start today. If there was no h1b program, we’d of hired that American and trained them.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    And as soon as that person got trained, they would jump ship.
- 6y ago

williesleg 6y ago

Good. They're all worthless, all of the ones I've seen lie and cheat on their resume, code crap code, and just do the needful. Fix India before you try to "fix" the USA.

jakearmitage 6y ago

The amount of hatred towards America in this circle is astonishing, and the schadenfreude just feels like a drug. I honestly don't understand, I keep trying to imagine how it would feel if people were like that towards my country.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
I think much of the hatred you're seeing comes from Americans, who are frustrated and lashing out because the country won't implement the pandemic control policies they'd like. Most non-Americans I know understand it's cruel and unhelpful to say "hah, you guys have a deadly disease spreading! what idiots!"
- mardifoufs 6y ago
  To be honest, I don't think americans know what they have. I totally understand wanting to get even better and fixing all the stuff that's broken in american society! But the self hatred and continuous bashing is almost annoying at this point. I mean it's crazy to see in this thread some who actually believe H1Bs are down because people don't want to live in the US anymore. It's completely detached from the reality where hundreds of millions, or even billions would do a lot to have the opportunity to move to the US. It really comes from a position of privilege in my opinion.
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dominotw 6y ago
its coming from jealous people. People doing the same CRUD api jobs in some other country for 30k/yr max.
- scarface74 6y ago
  Yes because all of the developers here live on the west coast and make $500K a year.

fizixer 6y ago

Did they legally have to "reach the numerical allocations"? Or is it that H1B employers have enough of a powerful lobby that USCIS had no choice? (since I assume current administration would've been content with under-utilization this year).

diebeforei485 6y ago
Yeah. This has been done before.
winter_blue 6y ago
The law actually requires that visa applications be denied once the numerical limit is reached. So, no, USCIS cannot legally start denying visa applications (on grounds of the limit being reached) until the numerical limit has been reached. It’s actually an absurd and cruel thing that there is even such a ridiculous numerical limit, and one that is extremely small in per capita terms. Most developed countries don’t have such limits. Both Canada and Australia granted more visa applications than the US. The numerical limit (along with other restrictions) has resulted in a lottery, which in turn led to many people who studied in the US getting effectively deported (as they had no way to stay without a work visa). People with a PhD from Harvard and MIT with a $250k+ jobs (or job offers) have gotten deported because of the absurd numerical limit on H-1B visas. Your idiotic opinions on immigration come across as grossly xenophobic. Since Trump got elected people have been getting denied for absurd joke reasons. I myself was denied a $200k+ job and had to leave / got effectively deported from the US. And I am someone who has spent over 10 years in the US on visas. I’m sure you’ll celebrate my suffering.

magtux 6y ago

I mean it makes sense to me. I chose to work in Ireland in tech rather than America. Yes I took a 20% paycut after adjusting for COL but as an Indian, it's a much nicer country. There is a clear, well defined process. You get a permanent residency after 2 years and can apply for naturalisation after 5. The government is not actively hostile to immigrants, no stste violence, negligible prejudice and a very friendly people. A lot of my friends who did their masters in the US are trying to move out as well due to the visa process. You can't live forever on a H1B. Canada seems to be the country of choice for those moving out. Money can only go so far, you need peace of mind. You can't build your life on a temporary foundation. Also one other recent phenomenon is that you can make boatload of money staying in India and working for a startup. So the incentive to go to the US is lesser atleast for the cream of the talent from the top universities.

vsskanth 6y ago
Totally agree. USA was the default option in the 2000s but in 2020 there are a lot of competitive options for high skilled employment (including staying back in India). There seems to be lot more awareness in India about H1B issues and the impossibility of getting PR in the USA for indians.
addicted 6y ago
Pretty much all our H1B employees from India are looking to move to Canada but our Canadian offices have run out of space. Ireland may be a good suggestion as well. Add in visa free travel to all of Europe and it’s probably a great experience.
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dominotw 6y ago
> I mean it makes sense to me. All the reasons you citied for why it makes sense were true in april of 2020 too when H1B was oversubscribed by multiple factors. So how does it make sense to you? Its not like indians were getting Green cards in 2 yrs in april. Correct explanation imo is drop in outsourcing contracts due to pandemic. TCS, Wipro don't need h1b anymore. https://infotechlead.com/bpo/infosys-reveals-some-clients-seek-price-cuts-or-drop-deals-61543 https://infotechlead.com/bpo/infosys-reveals-some-clients-se...

returningfory2 6y ago

The title is slightly inaccurate. "Foreigners" do not submit H-1B petitions. Their sponsoring employers do. The fact that the numerical limit was not reached does not mean workers don't want to come to the US. It means that, in light of COVID, their employers no longer want them and so did not pursue the H-1B petition after it was selected.

porksoda 6y ago

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the USA, but your towns and cities are full of rule-followers doing herd-passive-aggressive self-enforcement, and live-and-let-live is a rare feeling. The article is right, it's probably corona and other issues causing the shortfall, but having watched your guy bringing that undercurrent of nastiness out into the open, is anyone actually surprised by this? I moved from Nicaragua to Mexico before Corona, and I'm waiting it out here: I was so surprised by this place (and by Nica before it). There surely is a lot of asylum woe on the border, but I can't really believe anyone would want to leave here and go there, and nor can any of the other delightful cultured sweet kind and wonderful "bad hombres" who live here.

nomoreservices 6y ago
> your towns and cities are full of rule-followers doing herd-passive-aggressive self-enforcement, and live-and-let-live is a rare feeling Can you give examples of what you mean by that? I've been living in the US (Seattle area) for over 7 years and haven't felt that at all.
- porksoda 6y ago
  OK, seattle; Washington State is one of my favorite places. I'm african, I didn't think twice: I mistakenly walked out of the bar with my beer in my hand, to fetch something from the car. The ten minute fiasco that followed, during which I was not permitted to re-enter the bar with my beer, but not permitted to put my beer in the trash can, nor permitted to "finish it" and throw the can away, I had to "pass it over the line" with outstreched arms, as though it was radioactive. (edit: mis-remembered. I actually had to pass it over the wall that surrounded the entrance, not over the entranceway itself. Maybe that's part of the rules). There were no cops on the scene, but I FELT we were on the verge of someone calling nine-fucking-one-one. In order to re-enter the pub (closest to my airbnb), I had to "ask forgiveness", and I was "lucky enough" to have it bestowed on me. Honestly I felt like a forty year old child.
  - porksoda 6y ago
    The thing I confabulated this with, was a memory of a TSA agent and I, exchanging a "forbidden" item. That was also really weird, though I kind of get why the overreaction exists; surely someone in an airport somewhere's died of a keychain-pocket-knife before.

swilliamsio 6y ago

Other people in this thread have mentioned the pandemic, but I'd argue the highly publicised Black Lives Matter protests are having a big effect in pushing away foreigners as well.

thrwlkan3n 6y ago

I am an Indian who worked in US for 6+ years. Got frustrated with the h1b process and the way my employer treated me and left everything behind without even a job lined up in India. The last 1 year consisted of my GC application first stage getting denied, 3 months appeal, get i140, file h1b extension, get RFEd, cannot renew license for 3 months until I get the h1b again. Finally after an year of uncertainty, got my h1b for 3 more years, packed up and left the next month. Even though I didn't have a job in India (didn't even look for one), I was completely in peace, no unending emotional pain with tears in my eyes, no stress, anxiety, no suicidal thoughts. Then one day my previous employer called me back, and I came back, because I cared for the project. 3 months later, homeland security (ICE) raided the office. Showed up suddenly, ordered us to stop everything we are doing, took all of us into a conference room. Wouldn't allow to even go for a bathroom break without them accompanying us. Questioned everyone. They were asking questions like 'are we paid enough, do we have any relatives in the office, am I staying alone or with other colleagues' and so on - the kind of things I see in twitter and other places where the anti h1b folks talk about us - that we all stay together because we don't get paid enough or nepotism and so on. The funny thing is even when I came back, I had no intention of staying in US for more than 3 years. I told the officers we are having a baby due in 2 months, and they are in India, hoping they would understand that I am there only for work, and has no intention to settle down. We didn't want the baby to be born in US and become a US citizen. I look forward to an India were we won't have to rely on foreigners any more.