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US plans to produce ‘Iberian’ ham in Texas and Georgia
- bzb4 6y agoThe socialcommunist government of Spain is too busy hiding the people they murdered during this plague because of their gross mishandling of the situation, they have no time left to save any of the strategic sectors of the country.
- JorgeGT 6y agoIf there's fury in Spain, certainly I'm not aware, first time hearing about this. I doubt they can get it right, even here in Spain most jamón sold is not ibérico de bellota but just ibérico, or not even that. You have the classification here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jam%C3%B3n_ib%C3%A9rico#Commercial_grading_and_labeling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jam%C3%B3n_ib%C3%A9rico#Commer... The difference with the real thing (black label) is night and day. This will possible be a passable "jamón ibérico" like the one you can buy here in the supermarket, this is, the pigs are from the ibérico race but they are not fed the traditional way. It's not bad but trust me, at least once get yourself a true black-label "100% ibérico de bellota", if it can be imported into the US.
- krull10 6y agoYou can get bellota in the US but it is much more expensive than in Spain. Still delicious though. I think it is only in recent years that it was allowed for import though.
- iagovar 6y agoCan't you buy and import from Spain? Or there may be little stores with stock in cities.
- otterley 6y agoUS import regulations make it extremely difficult to import non-canned meat products from foreign countries. IIRC, the foreign producer has to allow USDA inspectors on site.
- masklinn 6y agoThe FDA and USDA make it rather difficult to import food in the US.
- 13of40 6y agoYou can buy it at Costco: https://www.foodbeast.com/news/costco-iberico-ham/ https://www.foodbeast.com/news/costco-iberico-ham/ "Produced in the Valle de los Pedroches, a region in Southern Spain, the ham is from Iberico Breed pigs that are fed a vegetarian diet of acorn and grass and raised free-range..."
- iagovar 6y agoI bought a whole leg maybe twice in my life. Most people here buys sliced jamón, so it's affordable that way.
- peteradio 6y agoI suspect Texas in particular would do very well at copying the traditional feed, there are loads of Oaks and Chestnuts.
- chongli 6y agoIf there's fury in Spain Also I would add that it's completely disingenuous to describe this operation as "US Plans" as though this were some sinister plot by the US Federal Government to destroy the market for this beloved Spanish meat product. This is a pair of ventures which have been undertaken by Spanish-American farmers. These farmers are completely within their rights to raise pigs this way. As long as they don't call it jamón ibérico de bellota, they should be fine.
- garmaine 6y ago> As long as they don't call it jamón ibérico de bellota, they should be fine. Why? In the USA that should be allowed, I believe. They just wouldn’t be able to export with that labeling.
- chipsa 6y agoDepends on whether the organization that approves the labeling has a trademark on it. If it's a trademarked phrase, you can't sell it with that label at all.
- hourislate 6y agoAll I would say is that Texas raises some of the best beef in the world (Grass Fed Organic Beef Cattle). They also have a world renown Agricultural University (Texas A&M). There is plenty of experience in Animal husbandry and no shortage of resources including Acorns, there are probably millions of Oaks throughout Texas. If they choose to they will be able to make black-label as good as any.
- sixQuarks 6y agoWhat do you mean by “best”? I’ve never tasted Texas beef that even comes close to the flavor of Argentinian or Brazilian beef.
- axaxs 6y agoTexas is a huge state, of course there's a bit of everything. You can absolutely find some of the best beef in the world there. You can also find some so-so, or even bad beef. I don't think OP's statement is wrong, but also shouldn't be read as 'all beef from Texas is best'. Same with Brazil and Argentina, I'm sure.
- hourislate 6y ago>I’ve never tasted Texas beef that even comes close to the flavor of Argentinian or Brazilian beef. That's too bad. Where are you shopping? An example of 1 of 1000's of small ranches scattered through out the state. Even the Grocery stores carry local grass fed beef that is incredibly affordable and absolutely delicious. https://zbarcattle.com/ https://zbarcattle.com/ The breed of cattle https://zbarcattle.com/pages/our-cattle https://zbarcattle.com/pages/our-cattle
- sixQuarks 6y agoOK, I wanna try the best Texas beef, maybe I haven't tried good ones. I tried to order their prime ribeye, but it's sold out. Can you recommend some other places where I can purchase and get it shipped?
- User23 6y ago
- OldHand2018 6y ago> I doubt they can get it right, even here in Spain most jamón sold is not ibérico de bellota but just ibérico, or not even that. The best producers in Spain have very little to worry about as long as they continue to produce a high-quality product. It's the others that have to worry - selling a mediocre product internationally at a high price. These farmers in the US are certainly aiming at them and their profit margin. Someday, they may be able to produce a product on par with the best of Spain. But then they will just join the club rather than push the Spanish producers out of business.
- jurassic 6y agoI recently had some authentic jamon iberico de bellota from Formaggio Kitchen in Cambridge, MA. Definitely worth trying if you enjoy meat.
- andreareina 6y agoEvery Tom, Dick, and Harry can already be selling "jamón ibérico" because the USA does not in general recognize protected origins (viz. the sawdust that gets sold as "parmesan" over there)---there's no integrity to protect. In places that recognize protected origin using the same pigs wouldn't allow you to sell under the name jamón ibérico anyway. So blame the feckless governments that think names should only be protected when it suits them. Trademarks on food are fine. Trying to copyright an animal is... I really don't have the words.
- throwaway_pdp09 6y ago> Trying to copyright an animal is... They're not. From the article "must come from Iberian blackfoot pigs that spend the last months of their lives eating acorns on the dehesa, a traditional Spanish or Portuguese pasture shaded by mature oak trees" It's all of those conditions required. I'm not making any judgements, just pointing out.
- 082349872349872 6y agoUnsolicited suggestion for those who have recently vested: California certainly has plenty of land suitable for operating a dehesa... ("Remember, it's only tear gas if it comes from the Gazeuse Region of France and bears the CS label. Otherwise you're only being treated to sparkling mass repression at the hands of the State.")
- linksnapzz 6y agoPigs can eat acorns, lots of other mammals can't without pre-treatment. I know Texas and Georgia have a feral pig problem, which would indicate a biome that can support them...I don't recall CA having a similar pig issue; but maybe they haven't gotten there yet. Help help, I'm being repressed.
- stickfigure 6y agoCan confirm, CA oak woodlands have a feral pig issue. They're quite destructive and tear up my property certain times of year, digging for grubs. Folks hunt them here (about an hour north of SF, west of Davis). The meat is pretty dry.
- iagovar 6y agoAnyone can do a passable jamón. Try an authentic 5J and you will understand the worship.
- throwaway_pdp09 6y agoSometimes being vegetarian is hard :) I do miss ham.
- pa7x1 6y agoIf you are vegetarian due to moral concerns you may consider whitelisting jamon iberico de bellota. They live much better than we do. The production of jamon iberico de bellota is strictly regulated, among other things each pig has to have at least 12500 m^2 of their natural habitat (dehesa) to roam freely and eat from the oak trees. That's what gives the meat the intense taste and infiltrated fat, the pigs grow freely roaming vast areas of their natural habitat and eat what they love most.
- throwaway_pdp09 6y agoI'm not so much against killing animals than about letting a pig have a decent pig's life[0] and not allowing it to suffer when it's killed. It is a slippery slope though, and there are other ethical considerations such as the great inefficiency of producing animals for food when so many elsewhere can't get enough to eat. So perhaps and perhaps not. I guess for the latter reason I'll have to say no, but thanks for a constructive and helpful answer. [0] Other animals and their lifestyles are available..
- greatpatton 6y agoThey are great inefficiencies for industrially produced meat, but all cow or pig that are let free to feed are more efficient as most of the land they are feeding on cannot be used to grow something useful.
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago
- AlbertoGP 6y ago“Spanish businessmen suspect that the Chinese Government might have copied their «jamón» production methods during an inspection made in 2008 by a group of oriental technicians in some of their factories. The objective of that visit was to check the manufacturing conditions of that product to authorize its export to the asian country. But at the beginning of 2010, the first Chinese hams arrived in the market.” https://www.abc.es/tecnologia/abci-jamon-china-201111280000_noticia.html https://www.abc.es/tecnologia/abci-jamon-china-201111280000_... In the USA they typically do something different: put the name in whatever product that barely resembles the original, like they did with their “manchego” cheese, a label put in all kinds of cheese-like products. As for the Chinese ham, their propaganda reached even German TV where a supposed documentary (Galileo) claimed that Spanish «jamón» was brought from China by Marco Polo. Never mind that the Romans already knew it and there was a 2000 y.o. ham found in Conesa, Catalonia: https://www.incarlopsa.es/mundo-jamon/historia-jamon https://www.incarlopsa.es/mundo-jamon/historia-jamon I’m sure they can produce excellent meat products in Texas; they just shouldn’t call it “ibérico” as it isn’t, just call it “texan ham” or even “jamón tejano” which actually sounds quite good!
- jghn 6y agohuh. when did this happen with manchego? i remember noticing a number of years ago that it simultaneously became a lot more common and not as good.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y agoMaybe there's more Mexican food in your area, since Mexico has used "manchego" for a while to refer to a kind of cow's milk cheese.
- notdang 6y agoIn Mexico manchego is a very specific cheese and definitively not used to define generic cow cheese.
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- wayanon 6y agoThat Guardian article helped me understand why I’ve heard Americans say ‘French Champagne’ - I thought it could only be called Champagne when from that region but apparently not in the US.
- londons_explore 6y agoI'm all for monopolies on tradenarks (eg. Mars bar), but geographic monopolies seem stupid. If you name your product Champagne, in my mind it's totally fine for someone to start making Californian champagne.
- leetcrew 6y agoit's more of a classification than a product, and the location is part of the definition. similarly, whiskey cannot be sold as "bourbon" if it is not from US or "scotch" unless it is actually from scotland.
- riffraff 6y agothe problem (EDIT: usually) is that they do not market it as "californian champagne", just "champagne", i.e. they mislead the consumer into thinking they are buying something when they are buying something else.
- doktorhladnjak 6y agoThe California producers do have to label it as "California champagne" by law. And only those already producing "champagne" before the treaty can use the label.
- jet_32951 6y agoIt is done here [1] because the winery used "Champagne" long, long before the 2005 US-EU agreement about origin names as trademarks. Generally it isn't done. [1] https://www.korbel.com/FamilyOfChampagnes.aspx https://www.korbel.com/FamilyOfChampagnes.aspx
- mola 6y ago
- peterwwillis 6y agoIt's already nearly impossible to find jamón ibérico, much less de bellota, in even the expensive U.S. grocery stores. This will hurt Spanish sales much more in the developing markets where it's more in demand. America will just keep eating its crappy knockoff products like it always has, and you'll still be able to special order the real thing for a small fortune.
- patrickaljord 6y agoA bit ironic to see Spaniards afraid their natural resource are stolen from them and be made available on the South American market. I mean, it's not like they did the same with Avocado, tomato and so on and so forth. Not to mention all the gold from South America. That being said, today's Spanish farmers are not responsible for their ancestors deeds. However, true "Pata Negra" ham is actually so expensive, I don't think people who used to buy the real thing will buy the cheap American alternative instead as it doesn't have the Omega-9, taste and status. Only people who randomly bought super expensive Pata Negra and now decide to get the cheap alternative could affect their revenue, no idea how much this would make up.
- bzb4 6y ago> A bit ironic to see Spaniards afraid their natural resource are stolen from them and be made available on the South American market. I mean, it's not like they did the same with Avocado, tomato and so on and so forth. Not to mention all the gold from South America. This is not twitter, leave your 500 years old hatchet by the door.
- patrickaljord 6y ago> leave your 500 years old hatchet by the door. That's exactly what I did if you read up to my second paragraph, still ironic though. Let me paste it again for you: > That being said, today's Spanish farmers are not responsible for their ancestors deeds. There there.
- luckydata 6y agoYour comparison has nothing to do with the subject at hand. The problem is a country allowing the counterfeit production of an inferior product that will both impact sales and undermine the brand, very much like shitty “Parmesan” does to Italian Parmigiano. Ironically the USA has a hard on for intellectual property protection but seems to be very casual about this type of IP crime.
- otterley 6y ago
- chodeboy 6y agoEh I don't mind it too much. Once everyone writes jambon iberico on it you will have a minefield of quality. In the end people who want to avoid this problem will get their stuff from controlled origins. Although I do enjoy the hypocrisy of the US considering brand name and image is everything there. Companies and government are especially keen on being punitive against trademark abuse. Yet many people there try to piggy-back on other products' success (e.g. Parmesan and Champagne)
- quijoteuniv 6y agoAll “Jamón ibérico” should be sold trough an authorised spanish website owned by the Jamon consortium and they should keep 15 to 30 % of all sales. It has been done before with fruit.
- grenoire 6y agoSubtle.
- weatherman2 6y agoIt has a smell of irony but I'm missing the reference :(
- joejerryronnie 6y agoA particularly lucrative Gump investment
- beamatronic 6y agoIf they were to make a sequel, Gump would be a billionaire based on his historical investments.
- joejerryronnie 6y agoI bet you could write a compelling screen play with significant social commentary about an accidental billionaire with a very simple, straight forward outlook on society and how he chooses to deploy his resources.
- zamfi 6y agoFruit: Apple (And just in case, no, not apples, Apple)
- xattt 6y agoThe Consortium will reiterate their approach to privacy, ensuring that no federal agencies can access your ham records.
- ryanmarsh 6y agoIf you haven’t had Jamón ibérico, get ready to have your mind blown.
- gerardnll 6y agoIt’s always the same. Information and packaging. If you don’t know which labels and exactly which denominations to look for you may be eating something that’s not exactly what you expect. And that’s sad because it affects the reputation of great products with a long history and dedication. But that happens also even in the country of origin. There are various types of Ham in Spain, some people have only tried the ‘worst’ (compared to the best) and don’t know which is the denomination of the best (100% iberian, black tag). Maybe you’ve tasted the lowest category one and you don’t like it but you can love the higher-end ones, the difference is quite big. Also, there’s olive oil sold as Italian, that comes from Spain. But it seems like Italians are the only ones that produce it. There are articles about edulterated parmesan being sold in USA where they even found wood, there’s a whole mafia about that. All that while there’s great products being made by centuries old farms and hard working farmers. It’s OK if the US wants to produce ham but they should make it clear it’s not the same and avoid confusion. PS: I think ‘5 jotas’ is the most international brand of iberian products, try their ham or other iberian derived products, they are one of the best available.
- llsf 6y agoYes, if some US famers want to do some Iberico-style ham, they should be able to, but they cannot call it Iberico. They should build their brand, and not confuse consumers with a geographically based label that is clearly not accurate. They should compete on their own merit and quality, and not rely on a brand that took centuries to build. I would be fine if they label it as "Iberico-style ham" or "prepared the Iberico way", just not call it Iberico. Actually, if they plan to deviate from the original recipe (i.e. using different nuts) because they think it is better then Iberico, then they should differentiate themselves from Iberico. Unless using different nuts is a way to cut cost, and they still want to label it Iberico ?
- fermienrico 6y agoI think protectionism of food culture / products needs to be eradicated. I don't see why we can't make Pizza Nappoletana in Delhi, Camembert Cheese in Valdosta, Wagyu cows in Cape Town without pissing off people who have even passed laws to prevent others from copying the style. Like there was a restaurant owner that trademarked "Taco Tuesday" and tried to sue the US Navy for their misuse in Aircraft carrier canteens. That didn't go well.
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago> protectionism of food culture / products needs to be eradicated This is extreme. I’m fine with the present state. The EU regulates, and that’s fine. The U.S. doesn’t, and that’s fine too. Best of both worlds.
- fermienrico 6y agoUS has a lot of regulations too - the draconian Patent law needs to be abolished all together. Extreme? Yes.
- JumpCrisscross 6y agoWhat prevents someone from registering these controlled origins as a trademark in the U.S.?
- danans 6y agoTreaties, I think https://www.inta.org/fact-sheets/international-trademark-rights/ https://www.inta.org/fact-sheets/international-trademark-rig... But also lawsuits. For example, some years ago the Indian government sued and won a case against a Texas company (owned by the Prince of Liechtenstein) that got a patent on Basmati rice: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RiceTec https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RiceTec After the patent was revoked, they renamed it "Texmati". Maybe we'll see a "Texjamon" in the future.
- JumpCrisscross 6y agoWhat prevents the controlled origin authority from registering a trademark? Why can't the Spanish government or the relevant consortium trademark jamón ibérico?
- danans 6y agoNo reason they can't. After all Champagne is protected in that way. Perhaps they just ... didn't?
- mrfusion 6y agoSo Spain can sell Kentucky bourbon to retaliate.
- 29athrowaway 6y agoUnless it's produced in the Iberian peninsula, Jamon Iberico is just Sparkling ham.
- vmception 6y agoYeahhh I care enough about this to tell you all that I don't care about this The article was pretty spot on: > However, the US has tended to be cavalier about such things. My real thoughts are that many European cuisine customs are arbitrary and ignorable. Okay, a tradition of end of life pigs eating acorns and drying their meats for 36 months, and then later you found out that there was a certain omega fat created from this process? Yeah, get outta here. To me, this is right up there with Sardinia poisonous maggot cheese. There is also a possibility that people might like this offbrand version more, taste wise. We are about to fortune cookie Spanish cuisine. (Fortune cookies origins have competing claims from multiple Americans, Japan and China in the same time period and at this point it doesn't matter. Its an American-Chinese-American novelty, yay globalization!)
- anthk 6y agoWell, I woudn't call a true Texan BBQ one made from a MCDonalds's or Burger King franchise in Spain. Or by a local Castillian farm passing the meat as a Texan one, even if both have a similar meat culture historically because of the Castillian influence in the Southern US. If I was a Texan I would understand it. This the same case with the Iberian Ham.
- throwawayhacka 6y agohavent there already been countryhams raised on acorns in the usa? why so much clamor about the spanish ones? if I recall, people have been doing this on the east coast since the colonial era
- rafa1981 6y agoIf Texas has acorn, grass and a low humidity climate year around where the hams can be dried in optimal conditions, I can't see why they wouldn't succeed. This is just about salting the right ham type and letting it dry at the right conditions. Not exactly rocket science.
- flowerlad 6y agoReminds me of this story, where "Basmati" rice, sold with pictures of Taj Mahal on the packaging, is actually grown in Texas. "Basmati" is an Indian name for a variety of rice. https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB891803406922118000 https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB891803406922118000