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Let me ask you and the HN crowd this: Would it honestly be incorrect to blame secularism for this? If it inconveniences me, why should I care at all if my actio

Let me ask you and the HN crowd this: Would it honestly be incorrect to blame secularism for this? If it inconveniences me, why should I care at all if my actions negatively affect absolutley anyone given my belief is that my existence has no purpose outside of what I conveniently define, life is meaningless outside of my self-defined meaning and there is no authority that can define what is a correct or incorrect way of living. In other words, like you observed I also think the moral foundations are failing. Why should groups of people accept each other as equally created and endowed with equal rights? Why should young people be inconvenienced to maybe save lives of older people by wearing masks? Empathy? Life has no meaning, they're gonna die anyway. Why emphatize with others at all? Why not focus on whatever leads to the best experience in this life for each individual, where there are conflicts let the strongest win. Nature has no mercy on the weak. Of course I don't believe any of that but am I wrong to think secularism plays a big role in the lack of empathy? Now before anyone reaches for their pitchforks, I am not saying religion is the solution or somehow all those religious people supporting terrible people to advance their agenda don't exist. I am saying, what a society finds correct and acceptable sets the tone. Even religious people act secular when it is convenient because society is secular and the ones that want popularity over authenticity will always be mallable enough to adopt to what society thinks is normal (consider how the nazis claimed to be Christians and killed jews, their actions override their claims). Let me rephrase a bit, foudnationally the social majority in america,despite all the terrible things that went on believed there is a purpose to life and you have to seek it. They also believed people have an origin and destination and that correct behavior in this life is critical, living incorrectly means failure in realizing the purpose of your existence or worse , regardless of popularity humans have limited and finite authority over other humans, that morality was not a suggestion but an implicit realization of the creator's will (or of the "universe" or whatever intelligent origin people believed in) ,a human's life is precious because it has meaning and purpose, and others' experience of pain morally bounds all other humans to apply emphatetic reasoning in their reaction. I am not neccesarily saying lack of religion is the cause. I am asking, given the facts, is it far fetched to consider embracing of secular individualism as the root cause? And I don't mean by any end of the political spectrum(left/right). I mean across the board,anyone that effectively beliefs they define their own morality as they see it fit to benefit themselves. And as the saying goes "a thief thinks everyone else is also a thief", they have all these conspiracies that the media or the deepstate is out to get them because that's exactly what they would do to advance their self-centered ideology. I am emploring you to critically consider that perhaps effective secualrim (even among those that don't claim to be secular) that puts individuals at the center of their own universe might be the cause. Humans are interesting creatures, weirdly with the exception of the vocal minority, people that are secular by default have in my experience been very emphatetic, I am not sure if they will remain the same but I think initially most mentally healthy people want to stop the pain of others because they experienced pain themselves and they wanted someone to help them, therefore doing to others what you would want done to you is implicitly a correct way of living. I suspect secular-individualism contradicts that reasoning when helping others entails inconvenience or having to pay a sacrifice. This is an important question because much of democracy and america assume the majority will have empathy for the minority (which is how slavery ended and civil rights laws that benefited the minority were passed). Another contributor might be how rapid advance of technology might be the driver of self-centered ideologies that lack empathy. But I hope people continue to appreciate peace and be open to any truth.

michaelchisari 6y ago
> am I wrong to think secularism plays a big role in the lack of empathy America is by far the most religious country in the first world.
- badrabbit 6y ago
  Maybe there is a better term, but what I meant was how despite claims of religion in practice if one is effectively and completely individualistic they are secular.
  - pg_1234 6y ago
    In a sense the religious folk are more dangerously individualistic. While the secular folk make connections with other (real) humans, the religious folk connect with a fantasy ... their "community" is just an assumption that everyone does/should share their fantasy ... and they become pretty damn nasty when that delusion is threatened.
    - badrabbit 6y ago
      Now that's objectively not right. Most charities anywhere from the red cross to community outreach programs in inner cities are religious in nature. You are trying to say what I said but you seem to be applying your own bias. Most die hard donald trump supporters don't even claim to be heavily religious for example. My point was secularists sometimes act as religious people should and vice versa but at the root of it individualism is to blame. I am suggesting secularism naturally leads to individualism but so does insincere or ill motivated religion. You are talking at the individual level but I was suggesting at a national level. Individually people are diffrent and surprising but when a divided nation embraces secularism it leads to individualism which eliminates diplomatic and civil compromises that maintain a stable society. Why are other western nations not this way? I am not sure they're as immune as you think. Not having similar diversity and division might be a factor but with the US, foreign actors have actively flamed divisions and encouraged individualistic and tribalist ideologies through social media. The US has plenty of divisions, a culture war and plenty of catalysts. But this all was true in the cold war and in the 90s, what changed now in my observation is the country switched from something like maybe a quarter secularists to a popular majority secularists. You should also beware, statistically plenty of people might claim a religion because they were raised that way, they are not saying they actively practice,they are saying that's their tribe. Big difference. Britain is exhibitih mildet but similar issues as the US if you would care for a comparison.

michaelchisari 6y ago

> am I wrong to think secularism plays a big role in the lack of empathy America is by far the most religious country in the first world.

badrabbit 6y ago
Maybe there is a better term, but what I meant was how despite claims of religion in practice if one is effectively and completely individualistic they are secular.
- pg_1234 6y ago
  In a sense the religious folk are more dangerously individualistic. While the secular folk make connections with other (real) humans, the religious folk connect with a fantasy ... their "community" is just an assumption that everyone does/should share their fantasy ... and they become pretty damn nasty when that delusion is threatened.
  - badrabbit 6y ago
    Now that's objectively not right. Most charities anywhere from the red cross to community outreach programs in inner cities are religious in nature. You are trying to say what I said but you seem to be applying your own bias. Most die hard donald trump supporters don't even claim to be heavily religious for example. My point was secularists sometimes act as religious people should and vice versa but at the root of it individualism is to blame. I am suggesting secularism naturally leads to individualism but so does insincere or ill motivated religion. You are talking at the individual level but I was suggesting at a national level. Individually people are diffrent and surprising but when a divided nation embraces secularism it leads to individualism which eliminates diplomatic and civil compromises that maintain a stable society. Why are other western nations not this way? I am not sure they're as immune as you think. Not having similar diversity and division might be a factor but with the US, foreign actors have actively flamed divisions and encouraged individualistic and tribalist ideologies through social media. The US has plenty of divisions, a culture war and plenty of catalysts. But this all was true in the cold war and in the 90s, what changed now in my observation is the country switched from something like maybe a quarter secularists to a popular majority secularists. You should also beware, statistically plenty of people might claim a religion because they were raised that way, they are not saying they actively practice,they are saying that's their tribe. Big difference. Britain is exhibitih mildet but similar issues as the US if you would care for a comparison.