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I've had to call 911 for such cause once in SF. A hobo tried to stab me with a needle, and chased after me. I called 911 specifically because i wanted someone t

I've had to call 911 for such cause once in SF. A hobo tried to stab me with a needle, and chased after me. I called 911 specifically because i wanted someone to come and use force to keep me safe, as it would be illegal for me to use force myself (in modern countries, the state usually has the monopoly on use of force, and self defense needs to be proven beyond many doubts). > The response teams will be equipped > with at least one paramedic from the > Fire Department and a behavioral health > clinician and behavioral health peer > from the San Francisco Department of > Public Health. Ok, which one of them is authorized to use force to keep me safe and stab free?

bmcahren 6y ago
You're not from the US based on your domain name but you're generally free to defend yourself in the US even within SF. > The defendant is not guilty of [whatever forceful act was used in self defense] if he/she used force against the other person in lawful self defense or in defense of another. The defendant acted in lawful self defense or defense of another if: > The defendant reasonably believed that (he/she or someone else) was in imminent danger of suffering bodily injury (or was in imminent danger of being touched unlawfully); > The defendant reasonably believed that the immediate use of force was necessary to defend against that danger; AND > The defendant used no more force than was reasonably necessary to defend against that danger In your case with the very real risk of a lifelong perhaps terminal disease from the needle and with that being a biological weapon I DO NOT RECOMMEND but by law you could likely use a deadly weapon in response like a bat/knife/pole/brick in an attempt to prevent you or someone else from being stabbed. I am not a lawyer. On the Street Crisis team front, I imagine they are all able to restrain the guy and that they will be equipped with personal defense such as tasers and mace which will be audited HEAVILY if used.
redis_mlc 6y ago
> it would be illegal for me to use force myself (in modern countries, the state usually has the monopoly on use of force). No, it's not "illegal" to defend yourself in the USA. But get the name of a witness or you could end up in court for years. Many laws allow a defense, but you're responsible for meeting the burden of proof and legal fees. (The castle doctrine in some states was enacted to give property owners a stronger legal position for self-defense than just the legal defense option. Of course, that ended up being abused by overly-entitled home owners.) > i wanted someone to come and use force to keep me safe It's a common misunderstanding that the police have an obligation to keep you safe. They don't. The police can enforce a law, but at the end of the day, they don't have to keep you safe in any way. An example is that the police can engage in high-speed pursuits, and if you get run over and die, that's not their problem. I can't tell if you're outside the USA, or if you missed civics class.
- closeparen 6y ago
  The specific meaning of “the police don’t have to keep you safe” is that you cannot win a lawsuit against the police because you were the victim of a crime. Most communities hire police to do emergency response and would treat a failure of 911 the same way they treat a failure of water or sewer. San Francisco just values this less than other places.
  - kevin_b_er 6y ago
    It also effectively means they can brutalize you for funsies with little to no repercussion in the US.
    - 1DRACOSEA8 6y ago
      And the well to do tech bros coddle up to the testosterone filled reactionaries. “Round them up!” Easy solution, that’s just lazy, you’re not even trying. San Francisco is also not equal to the rest of the US, I would dare say it’s closer to Mexico than anything else, but culturally California is quite diverse in attitude and flora. San Francisco puts up with a lot, always have, always will. It’s just embedded in the humanitarian pro immigrant pro minority passion of our city. I believe there may be remnants of this San Francisco but it is gone for good. 250 Million for Tech Buses and Two stems at Safeway, from London to San Salvador in one fell swoop.
      - closeparen 6y ago
        One thing I’ve noticed about native San Franciscans is that they just don’t go to the neighborhoods that lead tech workers to feel this way. It’s not like they’re actually walking their kids to school past needles and tents and rape threats and thinking it’s fine. They’re just not experiencing it. Often leads to people arguing past each other.
  - redis_mlc 6y ago
    No, you're not even close to correct. For example if you say, "I think somebody is following me.", US police will just say, "So go file a restraining order." They're not your friend, and won't let you use them as a tool in any way. If you do call 911, the response time varies depending on the city and the nature of the call. In Detroit, you might get next-day service, if that.
nexuist 6y ago
I would hope that in cases where a weapon is being used, the actual police are dispatched, since that is no longer a mental health case and actually just a full-blown violent crime.
funviolence 6y ago
bro if you had a permit, handgun, and a Jewish lawyer you could have blown that hobos brains out and had a story to tell when you returned to mother russia.

bmcahren 6y ago

You're not from the US based on your domain name but you're generally free to defend yourself in the US even within SF. > The defendant is not guilty of [whatever forceful act was used in self defense] if he/she used force against the other person in lawful self defense or in defense of another. The defendant acted in lawful self defense or defense of another if: > The defendant reasonably believed that (he/she or someone else) was in imminent danger of suffering bodily injury (or was in imminent danger of being touched unlawfully); > The defendant reasonably believed that the immediate use of force was necessary to defend against that danger; AND > The defendant used no more force than was reasonably necessary to defend against that danger In your case with the very real risk of a lifelong perhaps terminal disease from the needle and with that being a biological weapon I DO NOT RECOMMEND but by law you could likely use a deadly weapon in response like a bat/knife/pole/brick in an attempt to prevent you or someone else from being stabbed. I am not a lawyer. On the Street Crisis team front, I imagine they are all able to restrain the guy and that they will be equipped with personal defense such as tasers and mace which will be audited HEAVILY if used.

redis_mlc 6y ago

> it would be illegal for me to use force myself (in modern countries, the state usually has the monopoly on use of force). No, it's not "illegal" to defend yourself in the USA. But get the name of a witness or you could end up in court for years. Many laws allow a defense, but you're responsible for meeting the burden of proof and legal fees. (The castle doctrine in some states was enacted to give property owners a stronger legal position for self-defense than just the legal defense option. Of course, that ended up being abused by overly-entitled home owners.) > i wanted someone to come and use force to keep me safe It's a common misunderstanding that the police have an obligation to keep you safe. They don't. The police can enforce a law, but at the end of the day, they don't have to keep you safe in any way. An example is that the police can engage in high-speed pursuits, and if you get run over and die, that's not their problem. I can't tell if you're outside the USA, or if you missed civics class.

closeparen 6y ago
The specific meaning of “the police don’t have to keep you safe” is that you cannot win a lawsuit against the police because you were the victim of a crime. Most communities hire police to do emergency response and would treat a failure of 911 the same way they treat a failure of water or sewer. San Francisco just values this less than other places.
- kevin_b_er 6y ago
  It also effectively means they can brutalize you for funsies with little to no repercussion in the US.
  - 1DRACOSEA8 6y ago
    And the well to do tech bros coddle up to the testosterone filled reactionaries. “Round them up!” Easy solution, that’s just lazy, you’re not even trying. San Francisco is also not equal to the rest of the US, I would dare say it’s closer to Mexico than anything else, but culturally California is quite diverse in attitude and flora. San Francisco puts up with a lot, always have, always will. It’s just embedded in the humanitarian pro immigrant pro minority passion of our city. I believe there may be remnants of this San Francisco but it is gone for good. 250 Million for Tech Buses and Two stems at Safeway, from London to San Salvador in one fell swoop.
    - closeparen 6y ago
      One thing I’ve noticed about native San Franciscans is that they just don’t go to the neighborhoods that lead tech workers to feel this way. It’s not like they’re actually walking their kids to school past needles and tents and rape threats and thinking it’s fine. They’re just not experiencing it. Often leads to people arguing past each other.
- redis_mlc 6y ago
  No, you're not even close to correct. For example if you say, "I think somebody is following me.", US police will just say, "So go file a restraining order." They're not your friend, and won't let you use them as a tool in any way. If you do call 911, the response time varies depending on the city and the nature of the call. In Detroit, you might get next-day service, if that.

nexuist 6y ago

I would hope that in cases where a weapon is being used, the actual police are dispatched, since that is no longer a mental health case and actually just a full-blown violent crime.

funviolence 6y ago

bro if you had a permit, handgun, and a Jewish lawyer you could have blown that hobos brains out and had a story to tell when you returned to mother russia.