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The more these discussions progress, the more I wonder if there is really only one solution. We need less people. Trying to convince 8 billion people to do some

The more these discussions progress, the more I wonder if there is really only one solution. We need less people. Trying to convince 8 billion people to do something like never eat meat or fish seems like an impossible goal. We need to raise the standard of living in countries that reproduction rates > 2. We could also remove tax breaks for kids after the second in developed countries to mitigate the incentives for extra children. Maybe if we only had 4 billion people, we might be able to have everything be sustainable. Such a hard problem to solve.

mrpopo 6y ago
> We need less people. Trying to convince 8 billion people to do something like never eat meat or fish seems like an impossible goal. Again this is the problem I'm mentioning. You're picking an impossibly high goal and concluding that there is no solution. Let's try to consume 2 or 3 times less meat/fish, it's gonna be much easier and faster than the problems associated with extreme population reduction (radical population aging, no career opportunities for young people, overloaded medical staff, etc). For the average American, eating 3 times less meat still means you can get 3 steaks a week. It's not completely crazy.
- wmeredith 6y ago
  I seriously doubt the "average American" is eating 9 steaks a week. Where are you getting that information?
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    Most sources agree that the average American eats 250ish pounds of meat a year, which adds up to about 5 pounds per week or 9ish 8 ounce steaks. (I do agree that the average American isn't eating that in the form of steaks - there's a lot of bacon, burgers, and chicken mixed in.) (example: https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2012/06/27/155527365/visualizing-a-nation-of-meat-eaters https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2012/06/27/155527365/vi...)
- snarf21 6y ago
  Okay, fair. Trying to convince 8 billion people to cut their meat and fish consumption in half seems like an impossible goal to me. We can't get people to wear masks at scale despite people dying. I just don't honestly think we can convince them that eating a cheeseburger is a major problem. Even if we cut meat production in half, as the population doubles we end up exactly where we are now.
wmeredith 6y ago
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Source: http://www.thisdayinquotes.com/2011/04/we-have-met-enemy-and-he-is-us.html http://www.thisdayinquotes.com/2011/04/we-have-met-enemy-and...

mrpopo 6y ago

> We need less people. Trying to convince 8 billion people to do something like never eat meat or fish seems like an impossible goal. Again this is the problem I'm mentioning. You're picking an impossibly high goal and concluding that there is no solution. Let's try to consume 2 or 3 times less meat/fish, it's gonna be much easier and faster than the problems associated with extreme population reduction (radical population aging, no career opportunities for young people, overloaded medical staff, etc). For the average American, eating 3 times less meat still means you can get 3 steaks a week. It's not completely crazy.

wmeredith 6y ago
I seriously doubt the "average American" is eating 9 steaks a week. Where are you getting that information?
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  Most sources agree that the average American eats 250ish pounds of meat a year, which adds up to about 5 pounds per week or 9ish 8 ounce steaks. (I do agree that the average American isn't eating that in the form of steaks - there's a lot of bacon, burgers, and chicken mixed in.) (example: https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2012/06/27/155527365/visualizing-a-nation-of-meat-eaters https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2012/06/27/155527365/vi...)
snarf21 6y ago
Okay, fair. Trying to convince 8 billion people to cut their meat and fish consumption in half seems like an impossible goal to me. We can't get people to wear masks at scale despite people dying. I just don't honestly think we can convince them that eating a cheeseburger is a major problem. Even if we cut meat production in half, as the population doubles we end up exactly where we are now.

wmeredith 6y ago

"We have met the enemy and he is us." Source: http://www.thisdayinquotes.com/2011/04/we-have-met-enemy-and-he-is-us.html http://www.thisdayinquotes.com/2011/04/we-have-met-enemy-and...