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Mozilla Corp. need to recognize that running Google Docs better than Chrome is a battle they can't win. It will always be a catch-up game. I believe that a via

by m000 6y ago

Mozilla Corp. need to recognize that running Google Docs better than Chrome is a battle they can't win. It will always be a catch-up game. I believe that a viable strategy for them would be to instead focus on making Firefox better than Chrome on everything else but the Google Stack. If the Firefox experience is better on all other sites, Chrome will be gradually marginalized. It will be just a program that you keep open to do "work", similar to running MS-Office, while Firefox which will be considered the main web browser. This approach would keep the Google cash (from the default search engine deal) flowing. But they should also work on alternative sources of income. A Firefox Account that syncs passwords (Lockwise), bookmarks (Sync) and provides file sharing capabilities (Firefox Send) is a service worth paying for. But they have to put some work on properly integrating all these features. And most importantly, they need to get rid from the lock-in mentality and support all the services tied to the Firefox Account on competing browsers by developing/porting the corresponding extensions.

randoramax 6y ago
Firefox need to battle chrome and edge. Both come pre-installed in Android and Chromebook and Windows. Counting on Firefox to just be better to win against these two is naive at best.
- emidln 6y ago
  "Firefox needs to battle Internet Explorer and Opera. Both come pre-installed in Windows and Macintosh and Blackberry. Counting on Firefox to just be better to win against these two is naive at best." ~ someone similar to randoramax circa 2003-2004. Worth noting that Firefox has won this battle before, and paved the way for Chrome/WebKit/Edge while doing so.
  - ac29 6y ago
    As far as I can tell, Fifefox has never "won". The best they did was a strong second in ~2007-2010 with about 20-30% market share: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers Chrome and Safari are much stronger competitors than Internet Explorer was then, so its understandable why Firefox is struggling. Being locked out of iOS doesn't help either, though I'm not sure it would make much of a difference even if they weren't.
    - toyg 6y ago
      20/30% market share is a massive win for an ethically-led company in a market dominated by the richest companies in the world (literally). They don’t need 51% and never will. What Mozilla needs is a solid 15/20% to buy a seat at the tables that matter (standards etc). Btw, if iOS allowed any other browser, Safari’s numbers would go way down almost immediately. Way.
  - randoramax 6y ago
    You downplay the fact that Firefox at the time had Google's backing to go after Microsoft. Opera was never a threat, it was the "token" choice for Microsoft to avoid further upsetting the antitrust agencies. It's a whole different world today.
- m000 6y ago
  I don't think it is. Chrome these days feels like it's being maintained solely as a platform for running Google Docs. And Edge is based on Chromium, a good indication that Microsoft is not very interested in aggressively engaging in browser wars. So I believe that Firefox has a good chance to gain ground. And Firefox is already doing great and feels much fresher, at least from Chrome. More importantly, we are a far-cry from the crippling incompatibilities of previous browser wars, which essentially required you to replicate the bugs of your opponents. Also, a "win" for Firefox wouldn't necessarily be toppling Chrome from #1. E.g. a healthy market share percentage + being the top self-installed browser would be a win. Dominating the browser market may even hurt Mozilla Corp., as it could force an aggressive reaction from Google (reduced funding, or even buying them if they can get around anti-monopoly regulations).
pchanda 6y ago
>> I believe that a viable strategy for them would be to instead focus on making Firefox better than Chrome on everything else but the Google Stack. If the Firefox experience is better on all other sites, Chrome will be gradually marginalized. Quite difficult when every developer I see is testing and verifying their product on chrome
- marcosdumay 6y ago
  They just need a killer set of dev-tools. What, of course, they've noticed and were working for already.
  - makomk 6y ago
    Good-quality dev tools seems to be one of the things they're abandoning in the recent layoffs: "In order to refocus the Firefox organization on core browser growth through differentiated user experiences, we are reducing investment in some areas such as developer tools, internal tooling, and platform feature development, and transitioning adjacent security/privacy products to our New Products and Operations team"
- the_other 6y ago
  Hi! I use FF as my primary dev browser. The debugger lets it down and the JSON viewer in the network tab is annoying... but everything else is excellent. The CSS layout inspectors are particularly good.
  - niij 6y ago
    On the JSON viewer being annoying: is the issue that it shows the information twice for all fields? That's what drives me crazy. I wonder how hard it would be for a newcomer to make a fix for this.
- JeremyNT 6y ago
  I always use Firefox personally during development, the dev tools are really great. Our test suite uses Selenium with Chromium, which allows me to cover both browsers to some extent.
stjohnswarts 6y ago
I don't think google -wants- them to use the chromium stack. Currently they can point and say they have a competitor, if gecko dies then they can't.

by m000 6y ago

randoramax 6y ago

Firefox need to battle chrome and edge. Both come pre-installed in Android and Chromebook and Windows. Counting on Firefox to just be better to win against these two is naive at best.

emidln 6y ago
"Firefox needs to battle Internet Explorer and Opera. Both come pre-installed in Windows and Macintosh and Blackberry. Counting on Firefox to just be better to win against these two is naive at best." ~ someone similar to randoramax circa 2003-2004. Worth noting that Firefox has won this battle before, and paved the way for Chrome/WebKit/Edge while doing so.
- ac29 6y ago
  As far as I can tell, Fifefox has never "won". The best they did was a strong second in ~2007-2010 with about 20-30% market share: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers Chrome and Safari are much stronger competitors than Internet Explorer was then, so its understandable why Firefox is struggling. Being locked out of iOS doesn't help either, though I'm not sure it would make much of a difference even if they weren't.
  - toyg 6y ago
    20/30% market share is a massive win for an ethically-led company in a market dominated by the richest companies in the world (literally). They don’t need 51% and never will. What Mozilla needs is a solid 15/20% to buy a seat at the tables that matter (standards etc). Btw, if iOS allowed any other browser, Safari’s numbers would go way down almost immediately. Way.
- randoramax 6y ago
  You downplay the fact that Firefox at the time had Google's backing to go after Microsoft. Opera was never a threat, it was the "token" choice for Microsoft to avoid further upsetting the antitrust agencies. It's a whole different world today.
m000 6y ago
I don't think it is. Chrome these days feels like it's being maintained solely as a platform for running Google Docs. And Edge is based on Chromium, a good indication that Microsoft is not very interested in aggressively engaging in browser wars. So I believe that Firefox has a good chance to gain ground. And Firefox is already doing great and feels much fresher, at least from Chrome. More importantly, we are a far-cry from the crippling incompatibilities of previous browser wars, which essentially required you to replicate the bugs of your opponents. Also, a "win" for Firefox wouldn't necessarily be toppling Chrome from #1. E.g. a healthy market share percentage + being the top self-installed browser would be a win. Dominating the browser market may even hurt Mozilla Corp., as it could force an aggressive reaction from Google (reduced funding, or even buying them if they can get around anti-monopoly regulations).

pchanda 6y ago

>> I believe that a viable strategy for them would be to instead focus on making Firefox better than Chrome on everything else but the Google Stack. If the Firefox experience is better on all other sites, Chrome will be gradually marginalized. Quite difficult when every developer I see is testing and verifying their product on chrome

marcosdumay 6y ago
They just need a killer set of dev-tools. What, of course, they've noticed and were working for already.
- makomk 6y ago
  Good-quality dev tools seems to be one of the things they're abandoning in the recent layoffs: "In order to refocus the Firefox organization on core browser growth through differentiated user experiences, we are reducing investment in some areas such as developer tools, internal tooling, and platform feature development, and transitioning adjacent security/privacy products to our New Products and Operations team"
the_other 6y ago
Hi! I use FF as my primary dev browser. The debugger lets it down and the JSON viewer in the network tab is annoying... but everything else is excellent. The CSS layout inspectors are particularly good.
- niij 6y ago
  On the JSON viewer being annoying: is the issue that it shows the information twice for all fields? That's what drives me crazy. I wonder how hard it would be for a newcomer to make a fix for this.
JeremyNT 6y ago
I always use Firefox personally during development, the dev tools are really great. Our test suite uses Selenium with Chromium, which allows me to cover both browsers to some extent.

stjohnswarts 6y ago

I don't think google -wants- them to use the chromium stack. Currently they can point and say they have a competitor, if gecko dies then they can't.