8 ms·

The new browser wars are weird. Google seems to be weaponizing its stack / fleet of products to make firefox less desireable. Firefox might not have much levera

The new browser wars are weird. Google seems to be weaponizing its stack / fleet of products to make firefox less desireable. Firefox might not have much leverage when this deal comes up for renewal. Really hope they find a way to build some sustainable alternative business models during this timeline. I think thats more of a motivating factor in the recent layoffs + their incubator-ish strategy.

TheCraiggers 6y ago
I really think Google simply keeps FF around just to help prevent anti-trust litigation. When viewed in that light, it's a bargain.
- dogma1138 6y ago
  It also means that you can’t de-google while supporting Firefox since it’s pretty much their only source of income other than donations.
  - liability 6y ago
    I don't give a damn, I degoogled anyway. As much as is technically possible without building Firefox myself anyway.
  - heavyset_go 6y ago
    Set a different default search engine on Firefox.
    - dogma1138 6y ago
      You are missing the point it’s not that you physically can’t do that but you can’t do that while supporting (as indirectly financially) Firefox, it also ensures that Firefox doesn’t go out of their way to push people to de-google.
    - sp332 6y ago
      This actually will hurt, because: "Firefox's revenue is subject to the overall trend of the search market and our product performance, versus a guaranteed payment." https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/08/firefox-maker-mozilla-lays-off-250-workers-says-covid-19-lowered-revenue/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/08/firef...
m000 6y ago
Mozilla Corp. need to recognize that running Google Docs better than Chrome is a battle they can't win. It will always be a catch-up game. I believe that a viable strategy for them would be to instead focus on making Firefox better than Chrome on everything else but the Google Stack. If the Firefox experience is better on all other sites, Chrome will be gradually marginalized. It will be just a program that you keep open to do "work", similar to running MS-Office, while Firefox which will be considered the main web browser. This approach would keep the Google cash (from the default search engine deal) flowing. But they should also work on alternative sources of income. A Firefox Account that syncs passwords (Lockwise), bookmarks (Sync) and provides file sharing capabilities (Firefox Send) is a service worth paying for. But they have to put some work on properly integrating all these features. And most importantly, they need to get rid from the lock-in mentality and support all the services tied to the Firefox Account on competing browsers by developing/porting the corresponding extensions.
- randoramax 6y ago
  Firefox need to battle chrome and edge. Both come pre-installed in Android and Chromebook and Windows. Counting on Firefox to just be better to win against these two is naive at best.
  - emidln 6y ago
    "Firefox needs to battle Internet Explorer and Opera. Both come pre-installed in Windows and Macintosh and Blackberry. Counting on Firefox to just be better to win against these two is naive at best." ~ someone similar to randoramax circa 2003-2004. Worth noting that Firefox has won this battle before, and paved the way for Chrome/WebKit/Edge while doing so.
    - ac29 6y ago
      As far as I can tell, Fifefox has never "won". The best they did was a strong second in ~2007-2010 with about 20-30% market share: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers Chrome and Safari are much stronger competitors than Internet Explorer was then, so its understandable why Firefox is struggling. Being locked out of iOS doesn't help either, though I'm not sure it would make much of a difference even if they weren't.
kps 6y ago
To me, Mozilla seems to be weaponizing its stack / fleet of products to make Firefox less desirable. “It's OK, only 1% used that thing we broke.” Sure, but you did it a hundred times.
- pessimizer 6y ago
  Also: "1% of people used that thing that we broke" is often a willful misinterpretation of metrics where the actual situation is more like "100% of people used that thing that we broke, 1% of the time." The real interpretation is going to be somewhere in between, but the people choosing the direction the want the project to go are going to choose the interpretation that supports the decision that has already been made. edit: The best way to kill a train network is to tear up all of the least utilized track. The vast majority of that track consists of the last few miles of travel, and although only 1% of people use a particular piece, 80% of trips use one of the pieces. If people are going to have to buy a car to get to the heavily utilized backbone, they're going to ask themselves why they're driving to a train rather than just driving to the destination. This leads to a decay of the backbone.
- InitialLastName 6y ago
  It's OK though, the 36% of users who are left really love it.

TheCraiggers 6y ago

I really think Google simply keeps FF around just to help prevent anti-trust litigation. When viewed in that light, it's a bargain.

dogma1138 6y ago
It also means that you can’t de-google while supporting Firefox since it’s pretty much their only source of income other than donations.
- liability 6y ago
  I don't give a damn, I degoogled anyway. As much as is technically possible without building Firefox myself anyway.
- heavyset_go 6y ago
  Set a different default search engine on Firefox.
  - dogma1138 6y ago
    You are missing the point it’s not that you physically can’t do that but you can’t do that while supporting (as indirectly financially) Firefox, it also ensures that Firefox doesn’t go out of their way to push people to de-google.
  - sp332 6y ago
    This actually will hurt, because: "Firefox's revenue is subject to the overall trend of the search market and our product performance, versus a guaranteed payment." https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/08/firefox-maker-mozilla-lays-off-250-workers-says-covid-19-lowered-revenue/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/08/firef...

m000 6y ago

Mozilla Corp. need to recognize that running Google Docs better than Chrome is a battle they can't win. It will always be a catch-up game. I believe that a viable strategy for them would be to instead focus on making Firefox better than Chrome on everything else but the Google Stack. If the Firefox experience is better on all other sites, Chrome will be gradually marginalized. It will be just a program that you keep open to do "work", similar to running MS-Office, while Firefox which will be considered the main web browser. This approach would keep the Google cash (from the default search engine deal) flowing. But they should also work on alternative sources of income. A Firefox Account that syncs passwords (Lockwise), bookmarks (Sync) and provides file sharing capabilities (Firefox Send) is a service worth paying for. But they have to put some work on properly integrating all these features. And most importantly, they need to get rid from the lock-in mentality and support all the services tied to the Firefox Account on competing browsers by developing/porting the corresponding extensions.

randoramax 6y ago
Firefox need to battle chrome and edge. Both come pre-installed in Android and Chromebook and Windows. Counting on Firefox to just be better to win against these two is naive at best.
- emidln 6y ago
  "Firefox needs to battle Internet Explorer and Opera. Both come pre-installed in Windows and Macintosh and Blackberry. Counting on Firefox to just be better to win against these two is naive at best." ~ someone similar to randoramax circa 2003-2004. Worth noting that Firefox has won this battle before, and paved the way for Chrome/WebKit/Edge while doing so.
  - ac29 6y ago
    As far as I can tell, Fifefox has never "won". The best they did was a strong second in ~2007-2010 with about 20-30% market share: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers Chrome and Safari are much stronger competitors than Internet Explorer was then, so its understandable why Firefox is struggling. Being locked out of iOS doesn't help either, though I'm not sure it would make much of a difference even if they weren't.

kps 6y ago

To me, Mozilla seems to be weaponizing its stack / fleet of products to make Firefox less desirable. “It's OK, only 1% used that thing we broke.” Sure, but you did it a hundred times.

pessimizer 6y ago
Also: "1% of people used that thing that we broke" is often a willful misinterpretation of metrics where the actual situation is more like "100% of people used that thing that we broke, 1% of the time." The real interpretation is going to be somewhere in between, but the people choosing the direction the want the project to go are going to choose the interpretation that supports the decision that has already been made. edit: The best way to kill a train network is to tear up all of the least utilized track. The vast majority of that track consists of the last few miles of travel, and although only 1% of people use a particular piece, 80% of trips use one of the pieces. If people are going to have to buy a car to get to the heavily utilized backbone, they're going to ask themselves why they're driving to a train rather than just driving to the destination. This leads to a decay of the backbone.
InitialLastName 6y ago
It's OK though, the 36% of users who are left really love it.