4 ms·

Wait till all the used Tesla’s get resold in poor countries and all those batteries end up in rivers and the ocean.

jordanbeiber 6y ago
By that time these countries all have a stable power supply for EV, and we together enforce an improved recycling technology & policy. If they reach a point where it makes sense to buy teslas, we’re all good! We who buy teslas (I’m not though. Out of my league) today have a responsibility in this world, IMO. NOT because we can and buy teslas, but because we are super rich. We have to use this wealth better, set examples and improve technology and our ways of living.
- raxxorrax 6y ago
  You are not super rich, you cannot even buy a Tesla. That aside, you are correct though.
  - speedgoose 6y ago
    I think he was referring to his society not himself personally.
  - jordanbeiber 6y ago
    This was not meant about me as an individual, but... I’ve got way more than I need in life. Riches should be judged differently - I have a really nice home in an somewhat expensive city, clean tap water, comparatively clean air and access to all the healthy food I can ever want. Also great healthcare and schooling, cause welfare state and all that. Let’s start there. I could buy a tesla if I really really wanted to, but there’s no need. I’d have to take a car loan, but most who buy a tesla do I reckon. A car half the price suits my needs, and no loans. This means I’m comparatively super rich.
- rlonn 6y ago
  If the people who could afford Teslas had not bought them, Tesla would have failed as a car company. VW and others would then not be interested in electrification today, and the environment would have been a lot worse off in the long run. Few would argue that Tesla hasn't significantly sped up the transition towards electric cars. It's easy to fall into the trap of underestimating (or completely forgetting about) effects that are hard to quantify and/or are long-term.
  - jordanbeiber 6y ago
    Oh, don’t get me wrong. Tesla has been instrumental to opening up the EV floodgates. What I’m saying is that we need to set examples with regards to manufacturing, recycling, waste management and resource consumption Today we use and abuse a bit to much. It will realize prices of stuff, meaning less overall consumption per individual, but might end up globally sustainable.
  - sukilot 6y ago
    Nissan Leaf outsold Tesla for several years, until other carmakers joined the market. Tesla is just one of many.
theshrike79 6y ago
You mean in the countries where they literally dig up live copper wires to sell for cash? Why would they dump hundreds of kilos of very expensive rare earth metals to rivers?
- agumonkey 6y ago
  technically true but in this large mess you're never sure material won't leak (maybe few but still)
- Tade0 6y ago
  Li-ion batteries generally don't contain appreciable amounts of rare earths (if any). By weight they're mostly nickel, cobalt, aluminium and copper - all valuable materials, just not rare earths.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  I think "dump them in the river" was a metaphor for "seriously damage the environment in order to extract the valuable bits" which is what we currently see with most waste processing.
adrianN 6y ago
Used EV batteries will probably be a backbone for gridscale batteries and quite valuable. Nobody is going to dump them anywhere. Even after they're through in their grid role they're still full of expensive metals. A recycling industry is bound to pop up.
- riffraff 6y ago
  the same is true for computer hardware, but have you seen how electronic waste is actually recycled? It's basically an environmental and health disaster, just shifted to poor people in China. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_waste_in_Guiyu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_waste_in_Guiyu
  - adrianN 6y ago
    Imho a better comparison are lead batteries where we achieve really good recycling rates.
  - natmaka 6y ago
    Most old computer hardware isn't re-used (and often cannot be).
    - riffraff 6y ago
      sure, but I was referring to the part in the parent comment which talked about a "recycling industry".
obayesshelton 6y ago
You mean burn the precious materials out of them and all the waste going into the water/air like you see with electronics boards...
newyankee 6y ago
Recycling for Battery EVs is going to be a much more thriving industry as the designers are taking care of these things. Also i believe mining the batteries for the constituents will always be valuable. If the Tesla 1 million mile battery is as real as the CATL 1 million mile claimed battery, an electric car is actually going to last at least 3x that of an ICE car assuming all other components (motors, body, powertrain) is also improved. Brakes already last longer whereas because total no of components in EV is much lower (literally like 10x less moving parts) maintenance is also much, much easier. You need to educate yourself on how rapidly EV manufacturing, recycling and other aspects are evolving.
- qes 6y ago
  > an electric car is actually going to last at least 3x that of an ICE car assuming all other components (motors, body, powertrain) is also improved That's an absurd assumption. Why would you assume an electric car will improve the lifespan of the body by 3x? Why would non-EV's not also improve the lifespan of the body by 3x? > Brakes already last longer whereas because total no of components in EV is much lower (literally like 10x less moving parts) How are the number of components in an EV related to how long the brakes last? There's no connection. In fact, brakes in an EV have _more_ moving parts than most non-EV's because they are regenerative whereas most non-EV's are not. > You need to educate yourself Pot, meet kettle. Here's a hint: reading popsci on the crapper is not educating yourself.
  - sukilot 6y ago
    This kind of comment is not acceptable on HN.
abstractbarista 6y ago
I look forward to it. Lithium batteries are quite 'meh' compared to other battery technologies using carcinogenic materials, or combustion technology which leaks many nasty liquids.
mint2 6y ago
I doubt that is a concern but it’s easy to prove me wrong. What has happened to the 15 year old hybrid batteries?

By that time these countries all have a stable power supply for EV, and we together enforce an improved recycling technology & policy. If they reach a point where it makes sense to buy teslas, we’re all good! We who buy teslas (I’m not though. Out of my league) today have a responsibility in this world, IMO. NOT because we can and buy teslas, but because we are super rich. We have to use this wealth better, set examples and improve technology and our ways of living.

raxxorrax 6y ago
You are not super rich, you cannot even buy a Tesla. That aside, you are correct though.
- speedgoose 6y ago
  I think he was referring to his society not himself personally.
- jordanbeiber 6y ago
  This was not meant about me as an individual, but... I’ve got way more than I need in life. Riches should be judged differently - I have a really nice home in an somewhat expensive city, clean tap water, comparatively clean air and access to all the healthy food I can ever want. Also great healthcare and schooling, cause welfare state and all that. Let’s start there. I could buy a tesla if I really really wanted to, but there’s no need. I’d have to take a car loan, but most who buy a tesla do I reckon. A car half the price suits my needs, and no loans. This means I’m comparatively super rich.
rlonn 6y ago
If the people who could afford Teslas had not bought them, Tesla would have failed as a car company. VW and others would then not be interested in electrification today, and the environment would have been a lot worse off in the long run. Few would argue that Tesla hasn't significantly sped up the transition towards electric cars. It's easy to fall into the trap of underestimating (or completely forgetting about) effects that are hard to quantify and/or are long-term.
- jordanbeiber 6y ago
  Oh, don’t get me wrong. Tesla has been instrumental to opening up the EV floodgates. What I’m saying is that we need to set examples with regards to manufacturing, recycling, waste management and resource consumption Today we use and abuse a bit to much. It will realize prices of stuff, meaning less overall consumption per individual, but might end up globally sustainable.
- sukilot 6y ago
  Nissan Leaf outsold Tesla for several years, until other carmakers joined the market. Tesla is just one of many.

theshrike79 6y ago

You mean in the countries where they literally dig up live copper wires to sell for cash? Why would they dump hundreds of kilos of very expensive rare earth metals to rivers?

agumonkey 6y ago
technically true but in this large mess you're never sure material won't leak (maybe few but still)
Tade0 6y ago
Li-ion batteries generally don't contain appreciable amounts of rare earths (if any). By weight they're mostly nickel, cobalt, aluminium and copper - all valuable materials, just not rare earths.
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
I think "dump them in the river" was a metaphor for "seriously damage the environment in order to extract the valuable bits" which is what we currently see with most waste processing.

adrianN 6y ago

Used EV batteries will probably be a backbone for gridscale batteries and quite valuable. Nobody is going to dump them anywhere. Even after they're through in their grid role they're still full of expensive metals. A recycling industry is bound to pop up.

riffraff 6y ago
the same is true for computer hardware, but have you seen how electronic waste is actually recycled? It's basically an environmental and health disaster, just shifted to poor people in China. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_waste_in_Guiyu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_waste_in_Guiyu
- adrianN 6y ago
  Imho a better comparison are lead batteries where we achieve really good recycling rates.
- natmaka 6y ago
  Most old computer hardware isn't re-used (and often cannot be).
  - riffraff 6y ago
    sure, but I was referring to the part in the parent comment which talked about a "recycling industry".

obayesshelton 6y ago

You mean burn the precious materials out of them and all the waste going into the water/air like you see with electronics boards...

newyankee 6y ago

Recycling for Battery EVs is going to be a much more thriving industry as the designers are taking care of these things. Also i believe mining the batteries for the constituents will always be valuable. If the Tesla 1 million mile battery is as real as the CATL 1 million mile claimed battery, an electric car is actually going to last at least 3x that of an ICE car assuming all other components (motors, body, powertrain) is also improved. Brakes already last longer whereas because total no of components in EV is much lower (literally like 10x less moving parts) maintenance is also much, much easier. You need to educate yourself on how rapidly EV manufacturing, recycling and other aspects are evolving.

qes 6y ago
> an electric car is actually going to last at least 3x that of an ICE car assuming all other components (motors, body, powertrain) is also improved That's an absurd assumption. Why would you assume an electric car will improve the lifespan of the body by 3x? Why would non-EV's not also improve the lifespan of the body by 3x? > Brakes already last longer whereas because total no of components in EV is much lower (literally like 10x less moving parts) How are the number of components in an EV related to how long the brakes last? There's no connection. In fact, brakes in an EV have _more_ moving parts than most non-EV's because they are regenerative whereas most non-EV's are not. > You need to educate yourself Pot, meet kettle. Here's a hint: reading popsci on the crapper is not educating yourself.
- sukilot 6y ago
  This kind of comment is not acceptable on HN.

abstractbarista 6y ago

I look forward to it. Lithium batteries are quite 'meh' compared to other battery technologies using carcinogenic materials, or combustion technology which leaks many nasty liquids.

mint2 6y ago

I doubt that is a concern but it’s easy to prove me wrong. What has happened to the 15 year old hybrid batteries?