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The buzzword now is “equity.” The left now seeks equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity. All such initiatives are oppressive should be rejected

The buzzword now is “equity.” The left now seeks equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity. All such initiatives are oppressive should be rejected outright.

gameswithgo 6y ago
The Left here, checking in. No we don't. In the same way that the The Right, are not literally Nazis.
- radegast 6y ago
  Oh okay. I thought those people in the streets were shouting something about reparations for slavery and what not. My bad.
  - concordDance 6y ago
    A tiny vocal minority.
  - 7sigma 6y ago
    Its not just slavery, its jim crow, segregation, black people being systematically disadvantaged through racist policies like getting higher rates on loans despite having the same risk. Also: - the New Deal excluded black people - The GI Bill excluded black people etc... Slaves built a huge part of the economy for free and americans benefit from that work for which they were not compensated, so yes there absolutely should be reparations. I think this should be done in several ways: - monetarily: by funding scholarships and other projects to remedy the injustices perpetrated and help black americans accumulate some of the generational wealth they have been denied. Although at the end of the day, no amount of money will ever compensate for the hurt, death and atrocities, its a start. - education: teaching kids at school what slavery was really like, instead of what some of the schoolbooks teach (that slavery wasn't that bad for example). Teaching kids about systemic racism that persists to this day. - policing, housing, prisons: watch 13th documentary (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krfcq5pF8u8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krfcq5pF8u8) its free on netflix (edit: spelling and formatting)
    - raxxorrax 6y ago
      This is a real problem and it has to do that we try to quantify everything for risk assessments. This is a huge problem and the IT sector is a large part of that. A problem that should be discussed. Reparations within a country between different ethnicities a good way to increase animosity. Because people would complain rightfully, that the wealth transfer is unjust. I doubt you find any book in education that says that slavery wasn't bad. Every ethnicity on the planet has suffered from it and < 1% were slave owners. Yes, I know the argument that people profited passively... it isn't too convincing given the huge wealth distribution discrepancies western nation exhibit. I don't think you are advocating for justice or equality here.
    - iateanapple 6y ago
      > Slaves built a huge part of the economy for free and americans benefit from that work for which they were not compensated That’s almost certainly not the case. Any economic gains from slavery were more than wiped out by the civil war.
      - sumedh 6y ago
        > Any economic gains from slavery were more than wiped out by the civil war. Does that mean white Americans and Black Americans were on economically equal after the civil war?
        iateanapple 6y ago
        > Does that mean white Americans and Black Americans were on economically equal after the civil war? Where are you going with this line of questioning? They aren’t economically equal now in 2020.
        x86_64Ubuntu 6y ago
        He's saying that if the economic gains where wiped out, then blacks and whites should have had equal economic standing after the war. But we all know that didn't happen, which is why he posed that question.
  - take_a_breath 6y ago
    I’m sure people were saying that and they can speak for themselves. The problem is with extrapolating that thought to “the left”. Now you’ve editorialized it to fit you political views.
    - CuriouslyC 6y ago
      While your point is valid, media outlets with known political biases to "the left" have been putting out a lot of pro-reparations stuff since the protests started. Regardless of what the people who are actually protesting want, white folks sure like to talk about reparations.
      - take_a_breath 6y ago
        You just replaced “people” with “media outlets” and made the same over-generalization.
        CuriouslyC 6y ago
        The difference is that political bias of news outlets is a matter of public record, as is the number of articles on reparations before and after the protests started. All objective.
        take_a_breath 6y ago
        The political bias of news outlets is not an objective measure. It’s completely a matter of perspective. I have listened to people explain how Fox News is “liberal” and “true conservatives” must watch OANN.
- mcrad 6y ago
  Checking in, then when did "equity" become the buzzword for your team? Equality wasn't clear enough?
dbtc 6y ago
The Left is a very ambiguous phrase. Also, separating outcome and opportunity is tricky because it's a feedback loop. I don't disagree with you, I just want more precision [edit]: and nuance.
- radegast 6y ago
  Funny how when the self-proclaimed "ambiguous" left complains about "Drumpf and republicans", they dont mind the ambiguity.
- sul_tasto 6y ago
  The human potential lost to poverty is heartbreaking. Unfortunately, it seems like the political toolbox we’ve been bequeathed is filled with wooden spoons instead of scalpels. Open to ideas.
rorykoehler 6y ago
I consider myself left and i do not think that. I don't think this type of generic mud slinging adds anything to the conversation especially when it is not based on verifiable facts.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
fluffy87 6y ago
Who in the left aims for equality of outcome? The only ppl I see aim for that are republicans that don’t know the difference.
- collyw 6y ago
  Most of Reddit.
  - thiht 6y ago
    Reddit is not a single community.
concordDance 6y ago
This seems like a low quality culture warring comment. :/ Is it just me or has the quality of commentry on political topics gone substantially downhill on HN in the last five years?
- WalterSear 6y ago
  Polarization does that. By definition, at least one side has to have reached an ideological extreme. Nuance and extreme views don't mix.
- sul_tasto 6y ago
  Perhaps I was too hasty in my comment. I am not partisan. The right has its own problems, obviously. I recently moved from deep red Georgia to deep blue Maryland, and the polarization is demoralizing. Even though the political climate is so caustic these days, there are reasoned arguments on both sides of issues that are worth listening to. Unfortunately, these voices are being drowned out by extreme views. Our democracy is being eroded by gerrymandering, 24 hour news and social media. Unfortunately, these sources of extremism and authoritarianism are extremely profitable for a very select few. I wish the bright minds that visit this site would work to create products that foster democracy rather than erode it. To expound on my previous comment, those on the left calling for ‘equity’ should be viewed critically. The calls for ‘removing barriers’ should alarm everyone, because ultimately it only serves to control and dumb everyone down. The alternative is to encourage public policies that seek the empowerment of all individuals and groups. One concrete example is the debate in NYC schools that math and honors courses are ‘inequitable’ and racist. Voices on the left are calling for the abolishment of such classes, thereby denying students the opportunity to be challenged according to their ability. The other undiscussed side of this issue is that such calls for ‘equity’ result in basically giving up on poorer students who won’t be given the support they need to meet the higher standards. In short, anything involving ‘equity’ should be viewed as a race to the bottom for everyone.
  - gitrog 6y ago
    You would lose nothing by omitting terms like "the Left" and "the Right" and gain not immediately baiting people into partisan flame wars. I find it baffling that so many Americans have an inability to discuss politics without invoking either of those terms, especially when your "Left" and "Right" are practically leanings of Centrism to most of the rest of the world. But really, it does nothing to enforce your argument. You complain about 24 hour news and social media eroding Democracy (and presumably discussions about the politics of Democracy), yet you use these terms so loosely and end up reducing anyone Left of you to some or other policy you deem to be essential to that position.

The buzzword now is “equity.” The left now seeks equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity. All such initiatives are oppressive should be rejected outright.

gameswithgo 6y ago

The Left here, checking in. No we don't. In the same way that the The Right, are not literally Nazis.

radegast 6y ago
Oh okay. I thought those people in the streets were shouting something about reparations for slavery and what not. My bad.
- concordDance 6y ago
  A tiny vocal minority.
- 7sigma 6y ago
  Its not just slavery, its jim crow, segregation, black people being systematically disadvantaged through racist policies like getting higher rates on loans despite having the same risk. Also: - the New Deal excluded black people - The GI Bill excluded black people etc... Slaves built a huge part of the economy for free and americans benefit from that work for which they were not compensated, so yes there absolutely should be reparations. I think this should be done in several ways: - monetarily: by funding scholarships and other projects to remedy the injustices perpetrated and help black americans accumulate some of the generational wealth they have been denied. Although at the end of the day, no amount of money will ever compensate for the hurt, death and atrocities, its a start. - education: teaching kids at school what slavery was really like, instead of what some of the schoolbooks teach (that slavery wasn't that bad for example). Teaching kids about systemic racism that persists to this day. - policing, housing, prisons: watch 13th documentary (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krfcq5pF8u8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krfcq5pF8u8) its free on netflix (edit: spelling and formatting)
  - raxxorrax 6y ago
    This is a real problem and it has to do that we try to quantify everything for risk assessments. This is a huge problem and the IT sector is a large part of that. A problem that should be discussed. Reparations within a country between different ethnicities a good way to increase animosity. Because people would complain rightfully, that the wealth transfer is unjust. I doubt you find any book in education that says that slavery wasn't bad. Every ethnicity on the planet has suffered from it and < 1% were slave owners. Yes, I know the argument that people profited passively... it isn't too convincing given the huge wealth distribution discrepancies western nation exhibit. I don't think you are advocating for justice or equality here.
  - iateanapple 6y ago
    > Slaves built a huge part of the economy for free and americans benefit from that work for which they were not compensated That’s almost certainly not the case. Any economic gains from slavery were more than wiped out by the civil war.
    - sumedh 6y ago
      > Any economic gains from slavery were more than wiped out by the civil war. Does that mean white Americans and Black Americans were on economically equal after the civil war?
      - iateanapple 6y ago
        > Does that mean white Americans and Black Americans were on economically equal after the civil war? Where are you going with this line of questioning? They aren’t economically equal now in 2020.
        x86_64Ubuntu 6y ago
        He's saying that if the economic gains where wiped out, then blacks and whites should have had equal economic standing after the war. But we all know that didn't happen, which is why he posed that question.
- take_a_breath 6y ago
  I’m sure people were saying that and they can speak for themselves. The problem is with extrapolating that thought to “the left”. Now you’ve editorialized it to fit you political views.
  - CuriouslyC 6y ago
    While your point is valid, media outlets with known political biases to "the left" have been putting out a lot of pro-reparations stuff since the protests started. Regardless of what the people who are actually protesting want, white folks sure like to talk about reparations.
    - take_a_breath 6y ago
      You just replaced “people” with “media outlets” and made the same over-generalization.
      - CuriouslyC 6y ago
        The difference is that political bias of news outlets is a matter of public record, as is the number of articles on reparations before and after the protests started. All objective.
        take_a_breath 6y ago
        The political bias of news outlets is not an objective measure. It’s completely a matter of perspective. I have listened to people explain how Fox News is “liberal” and “true conservatives” must watch OANN.
mcrad 6y ago
Checking in, then when did "equity" become the buzzword for your team? Equality wasn't clear enough?

dbtc 6y ago

The Left is a very ambiguous phrase. Also, separating outcome and opportunity is tricky because it's a feedback loop. I don't disagree with you, I just want more precision [edit]: and nuance.

radegast 6y ago
Funny how when the self-proclaimed "ambiguous" left complains about "Drumpf and republicans", they dont mind the ambiguity.
sul_tasto 6y ago
The human potential lost to poverty is heartbreaking. Unfortunately, it seems like the political toolbox we’ve been bequeathed is filled with wooden spoons instead of scalpels. Open to ideas.

rorykoehler 6y ago

I consider myself left and i do not think that. I don't think this type of generic mud slinging adds anything to the conversation especially when it is not based on verifiable facts.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

fluffy87 6y ago

Who in the left aims for equality of outcome? The only ppl I see aim for that are republicans that don’t know the difference.

collyw 6y ago
Most of Reddit.
- thiht 6y ago
  Reddit is not a single community.

concordDance 6y ago

This seems like a low quality culture warring comment. :/ Is it just me or has the quality of commentry on political topics gone substantially downhill on HN in the last five years?

WalterSear 6y ago
Polarization does that. By definition, at least one side has to have reached an ideological extreme. Nuance and extreme views don't mix.
sul_tasto 6y ago
Perhaps I was too hasty in my comment. I am not partisan. The right has its own problems, obviously. I recently moved from deep red Georgia to deep blue Maryland, and the polarization is demoralizing. Even though the political climate is so caustic these days, there are reasoned arguments on both sides of issues that are worth listening to. Unfortunately, these voices are being drowned out by extreme views. Our democracy is being eroded by gerrymandering, 24 hour news and social media. Unfortunately, these sources of extremism and authoritarianism are extremely profitable for a very select few. I wish the bright minds that visit this site would work to create products that foster democracy rather than erode it. To expound on my previous comment, those on the left calling for ‘equity’ should be viewed critically. The calls for ‘removing barriers’ should alarm everyone, because ultimately it only serves to control and dumb everyone down. The alternative is to encourage public policies that seek the empowerment of all individuals and groups. One concrete example is the debate in NYC schools that math and honors courses are ‘inequitable’ and racist. Voices on the left are calling for the abolishment of such classes, thereby denying students the opportunity to be challenged according to their ability. The other undiscussed side of this issue is that such calls for ‘equity’ result in basically giving up on poorer students who won’t be given the support they need to meet the higher standards. In short, anything involving ‘equity’ should be viewed as a race to the bottom for everyone.
- gitrog 6y ago
  You would lose nothing by omitting terms like "the Left" and "the Right" and gain not immediately baiting people into partisan flame wars. I find it baffling that so many Americans have an inability to discuss politics without invoking either of those terms, especially when your "Left" and "Right" are practically leanings of Centrism to most of the rest of the world. But really, it does nothing to enforce your argument. You complain about 24 hour news and social media eroding Democracy (and presumably discussions about the politics of Democracy), yet you use these terms so loosely and end up reducing anyone Left of you to some or other policy you deem to be essential to that position.