7 ms·

This is true about one of my workplaces. Diversity this, diversity that. As a Director, I remind them that I'm not white. They seem to handwave it away and not

This is true about one of my workplaces. Diversity this, diversity that. As a Director, I remind them that I'm not white. They seem to handwave it away and not count it despite Asian-Americans being underrepresented in this line of work. Such is life. EDIT: If you're an Asian-American you get used to this kind of "model minority" discrimination / racism. It just is what it is. My guess is it is similar for Jewish people.

ralfd 6y ago
Interesting thought. Is it racism if you feel minority but are counted among the majority? If I would immigrate to the US I would count as white, even though I would be a clueless foreign stranger and would have difficulty connecting culturally with many. Still I wouldn't count as "diverse".
- prohobo 6y ago
  According to critical race theory, the identity group you fall into has systemic power over others. That means that no, you would not be considered disadvantaged or part of any oppressed group. Therefore it's not possible to be racist towards you. Of course, there are still plenty of people who don't see white immigrants through the prism of Woke ideology so you'd likely find some sympathetic to considering you as a diverse hire, despite not checking any boxes on the Woke identity list. It would be an unofficial acknowledgement though.
  - hh3k0 6y ago
    > Therefore it's not possible to be racist towards you. I do wonder occasionally, when did institutional racism become the only flavor of racism?
    - ipsocannibal 6y ago
      About the time that descriptive studies departments in the mid 1980's decided that narrative telling was more important than making falsifible claims.
  - icelancer 6y ago
    I know you're not saying it, but not sure when Asian-Americans ever had systemic power over others in this country. Korematsu v. United States is one explicit example of the opposite...
prohobo 6y ago
This is fully in line with Woke ideology. It seems a lot of people still don't understand it, and it's extremely important to read up on critical theory, postmodern theory, and social justice if you want to understand why things like this are happening to you. Essentially, Woke ideologists believe that identity groups are in a constant struggle for power, and they describe two main classes: the oppressed, and the oppressors. They are also rooted in Marxist ideology, believing in the emancipation of the oppressed by seizing the means of production - except where Marxists strictly focused on economic means, critical theorists focus on narrative and cultural means. In terms of economics, trade and industry, Asians are considered part of the oppressor group along with Whites and Jews. Asians are part of a narrative where they are known to be high earners and hold powerful positions in a wide array of industries. That's why they don't care about your ethnicity, because it's irrelevant to their stated goals of emancipating the oppressed.
- eli_gottlieb 6y ago
  I really think you're making a decent contribution here, except for the part where you blame Marxists. Marxists hate these people.
  - prohobo 6y ago
    I mean they incorporated a lot of Marxist theory, and it is essentially Neo-Marxism. I don't know how much these schools of thought differ, but I do hear about OG Marxists feeling that they're ruining it, or turning it into a mockery of the true philosophy.
  - istorical 6y ago
    First - just to clarify I actually believe in many aspects of modern democratic socialism RE: Nordics, and I think 2020 anti-racism is well-intentioned and doing a lot of good work. That being said, you really have to download some actual coursework from critical race programs at modern universities and actually read through it. And then go on a wikipedia spree to understand the cultural evolution of them and where they came from. Modern economic Marxists may or may not like these ideas, but certainly the original leaders of critical race theory were Marxists, the same academic language and ideas used by Marxists are ubiquitous in critical race texts. It's in the DNA. It's not about blaming Marxism, casting some kind of cold war boogey-man, it's just...a strange or somewhat alien or foreign type of thought to many people in the year 2020 but it is a big part of the intellectual underpinnings of this branch of education/academia that is growing in cultural importance.
0x00000000 6y ago
If you have been paying attention you may have seen the term “BIPOC” pop up overnight. This is a less handwave-y way of excluding Asians when it is convenient.
- pc86 6y ago
  I was confused by the B in BIPOC. I thought African-Americans were people of color? I'm trying to be earnest here because if that's the term that should be used I will use it, but I'd like to know its genesis. It feels wrong to refer to entire, disparate groups of people (indigenous peoples and Latinos in the Dakotas probably have very little in common) by an acronym that seemingly double-counts a particular group seems odd.
  - 0x00000000 6y ago
    it essentially just means “the black and indigenous subset of people of color”. Some definitions say it is to emphasize them more but includes all POC, but the former definition is effectively what it means in any context where one would find it necessary to use it at all.
    - pc86 6y ago
      Oh wow I completely misunderstood it then. So BIPOC is a subset of POC, got it. Thank you.
throw14082020 6y ago
This is exactly why people say "all lives matter", because there has been a significant focus on black, female, and LGBT lives, but not for disadvantaged people in general. There are many of them.
eli_gottlieb 6y ago
>EDIT: If you're an Asian-American you get used to this kind of "model minority" discrimination / racism. It just is what it is. My guess is it is similar for Jewish people. Oh yes, with a similar side-dish of people claiming we're spies who control the world.
- pc86 6y ago
  Ctrl+F "globalist" is an absolute cesspool of this kind of thing.
timbo1642 6y ago
Funny how liberals think discrimination is bad, yet they discriminate more than any group. Its very interesting.

ralfd 6y ago

Interesting thought. Is it racism if you feel minority but are counted among the majority? If I would immigrate to the US I would count as white, even though I would be a clueless foreign stranger and would have difficulty connecting culturally with many. Still I wouldn't count as "diverse".

prohobo 6y ago
According to critical race theory, the identity group you fall into has systemic power over others. That means that no, you would not be considered disadvantaged or part of any oppressed group. Therefore it's not possible to be racist towards you. Of course, there are still plenty of people who don't see white immigrants through the prism of Woke ideology so you'd likely find some sympathetic to considering you as a diverse hire, despite not checking any boxes on the Woke identity list. It would be an unofficial acknowledgement though.
- hh3k0 6y ago
  > Therefore it's not possible to be racist towards you. I do wonder occasionally, when did institutional racism become the only flavor of racism?
  - ipsocannibal 6y ago
    About the time that descriptive studies departments in the mid 1980's decided that narrative telling was more important than making falsifible claims.
- icelancer 6y ago
  I know you're not saying it, but not sure when Asian-Americans ever had systemic power over others in this country. Korematsu v. United States is one explicit example of the opposite...

prohobo 6y ago

This is fully in line with Woke ideology. It seems a lot of people still don't understand it, and it's extremely important to read up on critical theory, postmodern theory, and social justice if you want to understand why things like this are happening to you. Essentially, Woke ideologists believe that identity groups are in a constant struggle for power, and they describe two main classes: the oppressed, and the oppressors. They are also rooted in Marxist ideology, believing in the emancipation of the oppressed by seizing the means of production - except where Marxists strictly focused on economic means, critical theorists focus on narrative and cultural means. In terms of economics, trade and industry, Asians are considered part of the oppressor group along with Whites and Jews. Asians are part of a narrative where they are known to be high earners and hold powerful positions in a wide array of industries. That's why they don't care about your ethnicity, because it's irrelevant to their stated goals of emancipating the oppressed.

eli_gottlieb 6y ago
I really think you're making a decent contribution here, except for the part where you blame Marxists. Marxists hate these people.
- prohobo 6y ago
  I mean they incorporated a lot of Marxist theory, and it is essentially Neo-Marxism. I don't know how much these schools of thought differ, but I do hear about OG Marxists feeling that they're ruining it, or turning it into a mockery of the true philosophy.
- istorical 6y ago
  First - just to clarify I actually believe in many aspects of modern democratic socialism RE: Nordics, and I think 2020 anti-racism is well-intentioned and doing a lot of good work. That being said, you really have to download some actual coursework from critical race programs at modern universities and actually read through it. And then go on a wikipedia spree to understand the cultural evolution of them and where they came from. Modern economic Marxists may or may not like these ideas, but certainly the original leaders of critical race theory were Marxists, the same academic language and ideas used by Marxists are ubiquitous in critical race texts. It's in the DNA. It's not about blaming Marxism, casting some kind of cold war boogey-man, it's just...a strange or somewhat alien or foreign type of thought to many people in the year 2020 but it is a big part of the intellectual underpinnings of this branch of education/academia that is growing in cultural importance.

0x00000000 6y ago

If you have been paying attention you may have seen the term “BIPOC” pop up overnight. This is a less handwave-y way of excluding Asians when it is convenient.

pc86 6y ago
I was confused by the B in BIPOC. I thought African-Americans were people of color? I'm trying to be earnest here because if that's the term that should be used I will use it, but I'd like to know its genesis. It feels wrong to refer to entire, disparate groups of people (indigenous peoples and Latinos in the Dakotas probably have very little in common) by an acronym that seemingly double-counts a particular group seems odd.
- 0x00000000 6y ago
  it essentially just means “the black and indigenous subset of people of color”. Some definitions say it is to emphasize them more but includes all POC, but the former definition is effectively what it means in any context where one would find it necessary to use it at all.
  - pc86 6y ago
    Oh wow I completely misunderstood it then. So BIPOC is a subset of POC, got it. Thank you.

throw14082020 6y ago

This is exactly why people say "all lives matter", because there has been a significant focus on black, female, and LGBT lives, but not for disadvantaged people in general. There are many of them.

eli_gottlieb 6y ago

>EDIT: If you're an Asian-American you get used to this kind of "model minority" discrimination / racism. It just is what it is. My guess is it is similar for Jewish people. Oh yes, with a similar side-dish of people claiming we're spies who control the world.

pc86 6y ago
Ctrl+F "globalist" is an absolute cesspool of this kind of thing.

timbo1642 6y ago

Funny how liberals think discrimination is bad, yet they discriminate more than any group. Its very interesting.