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For my money, the year of the Linux Desktop was 2008. It's just that nobody noticed. Since 2008, Linux has had the best combination of performance and hardwar

For my money, the year of the Linux Desktop was 2008. It's just that nobody noticed. Since 2008, Linux has had the best combination of performance and hardware support on older machines, and the advantage has only grown since then. Windows and MacOS keep falling further behind in usability on machines older than four years, and that's the only hardware I would purchase for personal use. Why throw your money away on planned obsolescence, on an OS that keeps getting worse and worse, when you could use Linux on an older machine and have things keep getting better and better?

kunai 6y ago
In terms of usability, yes, but the problem with Linux in recent years has rarely been usability, it's the lack of workstation-level applications that are readily available on Windows and MacOS. As long as Linux lacks native support for Autodesk, Adobe CC, Office 365, FL Studio, Pro Tools, etc. and dozens of other niche programs by ISVs it will never approach the mainstream with any sort of widespread appeal. Currently Linux on the desktop is suitable for people who are aware of these limitations and either circumvent (through technical means such as WINE, which are opaque to the typical end-user) or tolerate them, acknowledging the limitations and doing nothing to mitigate them while embracing Linux's strengths as a web and educational medium (think Chromebooks). I legitimately have tried going Linux-only several times in my life and I've just come back to Windows every time. I know it's not ideal from a security perspective, a privacy perspective, etc. but there is just zero competition with Windows in terms of a software support perspective. Windows' backwards compatibility and range of software support is a masterclass in how to enable productivity. Even MacOS doesn't come close, with how frequently Apple breaks stuff that's expected to be supported (32-bit app support, Rosetta, etc) and how frequently they change architectures (68k > PowerPC > Intel > RISC, vs Microsoft with 32-bit Intel > 64/32-bit Intel)
- the_af 6y ago
  That seems like a moving goalpost to me. First, it wasn't usable. Then, it didn't have drivers. Then, it crashed a lot. Now it doesn't have Autodesk stuff? For the record, my mom doesn't know what Autodesk is. A "desktop" for me is where you can play movies, edit documents, browse the net and check email.
  - chillfox 6y ago
    Those are just the common stuff that everyone does with a computer, but I think most people ends up adding one special thing to that list. For some that is gaming, others it's doing tax, photo editing, programming, or some specialty software for a niche hobby that few people think about. Even my mum ended up using specialized software software for her knitting hobby.
    - the_af 6y ago
      I'd say you can do almost anything except the specialist software stuff. By specialist I mean "brand stuff"; for example, the problem with a photo editing course is that instead of teaching you the principles, they often teach you how to do stuff in (say) Lightroom, essentially compounding the problem. I understand why they do this -- it cuts corners and assumes a common ground; supporting a multitude of editing software the instructor might not be familiar with would be a nightmare -- but it doesn't help the situation. If they taught you the principles of editing photos, without using brand specific names, you could do this with GIMP or Krita. I do hobby stuff with my Linux laptop, by the way :)
      - chillfox 6y ago
        If they didn’t show how to do it in specific software then I don’t think the majority of people would get it.
        the_af 6y ago
        Agreed. Though I think the main problem is that an instructor cannot be expected to provide guidance for a dozen different tools. I understand the problem, I just wish they could approach this from an angle of general principles instead of specific tools.
    - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
      This is something I don't think enough people consider. There's a very long tail of niche software for niche use cases, and even "casual" computer users are likely to end up needing something from that very large set.
- pmontra 6y ago
  > Linux lacks native support for Autodesk, Adobe CC, Office 365, FL Studio, Pro Tools I understand your point but I've been using Ubuntu since 2009 and never needed any of those programs. I do another job (web development, mostly backend.) Actually I had to run the real Excel (not LibreOffice) for a project many years ago. I created a VM with VirtualBox, got a license for Excel from my customer and installed it there.
- vladvasiliu 6y ago
  > As long as Linux lacks native support for Autodesk, Adobe CC, Office 365, FL Studio, Pro Tools, etc. and dozens of other niche programs by ISVs it will never approach the mainstream with any sort of widespread appeal. Meh, I think it's not an all or nothing situation. My client uses exclusively Windows on the desktop but basically the most "advanced" applications they use are Excel and Outlook. Practically all their line of business software is web-based. Most run on Windows for some reason, but as far as the user is concerned, it's just a web app. I bet that the situation is similar for most companies, and the other tools you mentioned aren't all that widespread. Of course, for the companies that use them to make money they're important. But I would say that's "specialized use" territory. I bet most of the people working for my client (> 3000 employees) have no idea what Pro Tools are, and they are more or less in the media sector. I personally use the Adobe CC photography suite as a hobby. And although for the moment only lightroom is concerned, I get the feeling that adobe is looking to move the products to the cloud. Microsoft has already done this with Office 365. For my (admittedly limited) use case, installed Office is dead. It's a pain to install, takes forever to update, and most importantly, works way, way worse than the online version. Outlook online doesn't lag and the messages scroll while I move the slider instead of waiting for me to let it go. Just like it used to before they switch to the new interface around 2013 or 2016 with all the white space. The online version even works on Firefox on Linux. Teams works on Linux too. Remoting to windows servers is way more practical on Linux (Remmina) than windows. So I would say that for my client, the reason they still use windows is basically inertia. I'm using Linux full time and never had an issue interfacing with the other people working there.
the_af 6y ago
I noticed! I've been using Linux for decades, and Ubuntu since... 12.04 I think? It's the Linux Desktop for me. I game, I work, I watch movies, play music, connect to wireless stuff, I do pretty much everything I want -- it's a joy. (I always like telling how my wireless HP printer is easier to set up on Ubuntu than on OSX. It simply works on Ubuntu, but the Mac has trouble discovering it...)
- twicetwice 6y ago
  I've been slowly moving that way for years. I started dual-booting Windows and Ubuntu, Ubuntu for coding and Windows for everything else -- but over time I've been spending more and more time in Ubuntu, until I looked up one day and realized I used Windows for gaming and Ubuntu for everything else. I was going weeks without booting into Windows. And then last week after getting my computer back from repairs I did a clean install of Pop!_OS. No more Windows at all -- I have a fully Linux desktop. Granted I ended up leaving unallocated space for a Windows partition (shrinking a LUKS partition was not very fun, it took me two attempts) for when I eventually want to play some game, but who knows when that will be. Anyway, yeah, point is, for a sufficiently tech-savvy user, the year of the Linux Desktop has arrived. (And I could be wrong, but I think that threshold is actually pretty low. I'd guess that as long as you're not afraid of technology, you can handle installing Linux. Pop!_OS has a great installer and app store, too.)
smichel17 6y ago
I am not quite sure it was that early, but I agree it is in the past. Specifically, I contend that the year of the Linux desktop was some time before 2015, when Microsoft made (a version of) Windows (10) available gratis.
jsjohnst 6y ago
> MacOS keep falling further behind in usability on machines older than four years The huge user base of folks running thunderbolt 2 based MacBook pros from 2015 or earlier seems to disagree and a vocal minority of them say you can pry that model from their cold dead hands here on HN. It’s supported by the latest OSes with zero penalty, performance or otherwise.
- thewhitetulip 6y ago
  I'm using a 2012 model, won't ever replace it unless it breaks. Has been working perfectly with all updates and upgrades for 5+yrs

kunai 6y ago

In terms of usability, yes, but the problem with Linux in recent years has rarely been usability, it's the lack of workstation-level applications that are readily available on Windows and MacOS. As long as Linux lacks native support for Autodesk, Adobe CC, Office 365, FL Studio, Pro Tools, etc. and dozens of other niche programs by ISVs it will never approach the mainstream with any sort of widespread appeal. Currently Linux on the desktop is suitable for people who are aware of these limitations and either circumvent (through technical means such as WINE, which are opaque to the typical end-user) or tolerate them, acknowledging the limitations and doing nothing to mitigate them while embracing Linux's strengths as a web and educational medium (think Chromebooks). I legitimately have tried going Linux-only several times in my life and I've just come back to Windows every time. I know it's not ideal from a security perspective, a privacy perspective, etc. but there is just zero competition with Windows in terms of a software support perspective. Windows' backwards compatibility and range of software support is a masterclass in how to enable productivity. Even MacOS doesn't come close, with how frequently Apple breaks stuff that's expected to be supported (32-bit app support, Rosetta, etc) and how frequently they change architectures (68k > PowerPC > Intel > RISC, vs Microsoft with 32-bit Intel > 64/32-bit Intel)

the_af 6y ago
That seems like a moving goalpost to me. First, it wasn't usable. Then, it didn't have drivers. Then, it crashed a lot. Now it doesn't have Autodesk stuff? For the record, my mom doesn't know what Autodesk is. A "desktop" for me is where you can play movies, edit documents, browse the net and check email.
- chillfox 6y ago
  Those are just the common stuff that everyone does with a computer, but I think most people ends up adding one special thing to that list. For some that is gaming, others it's doing tax, photo editing, programming, or some specialty software for a niche hobby that few people think about. Even my mum ended up using specialized software software for her knitting hobby.
  - the_af 6y ago
    I'd say you can do almost anything except the specialist software stuff. By specialist I mean "brand stuff"; for example, the problem with a photo editing course is that instead of teaching you the principles, they often teach you how to do stuff in (say) Lightroom, essentially compounding the problem. I understand why they do this -- it cuts corners and assumes a common ground; supporting a multitude of editing software the instructor might not be familiar with would be a nightmare -- but it doesn't help the situation. If they taught you the principles of editing photos, without using brand specific names, you could do this with GIMP or Krita. I do hobby stuff with my Linux laptop, by the way :)
    - chillfox 6y ago
      If they didn’t show how to do it in specific software then I don’t think the majority of people would get it.
      - the_af 6y ago
        Agreed. Though I think the main problem is that an instructor cannot be expected to provide guidance for a dozen different tools. I understand the problem, I just wish they could approach this from an angle of general principles instead of specific tools.
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
    This is something I don't think enough people consider. There's a very long tail of niche software for niche use cases, and even "casual" computer users are likely to end up needing something from that very large set.
pmontra 6y ago
> Linux lacks native support for Autodesk, Adobe CC, Office 365, FL Studio, Pro Tools I understand your point but I've been using Ubuntu since 2009 and never needed any of those programs. I do another job (web development, mostly backend.) Actually I had to run the real Excel (not LibreOffice) for a project many years ago. I created a VM with VirtualBox, got a license for Excel from my customer and installed it there.
vladvasiliu 6y ago
> As long as Linux lacks native support for Autodesk, Adobe CC, Office 365, FL Studio, Pro Tools, etc. and dozens of other niche programs by ISVs it will never approach the mainstream with any sort of widespread appeal. Meh, I think it's not an all or nothing situation. My client uses exclusively Windows on the desktop but basically the most "advanced" applications they use are Excel and Outlook. Practically all their line of business software is web-based. Most run on Windows for some reason, but as far as the user is concerned, it's just a web app. I bet that the situation is similar for most companies, and the other tools you mentioned aren't all that widespread. Of course, for the companies that use them to make money they're important. But I would say that's "specialized use" territory. I bet most of the people working for my client (> 3000 employees) have no idea what Pro Tools are, and they are more or less in the media sector. I personally use the Adobe CC photography suite as a hobby. And although for the moment only lightroom is concerned, I get the feeling that adobe is looking to move the products to the cloud. Microsoft has already done this with Office 365. For my (admittedly limited) use case, installed Office is dead. It's a pain to install, takes forever to update, and most importantly, works way, way worse than the online version. Outlook online doesn't lag and the messages scroll while I move the slider instead of waiting for me to let it go. Just like it used to before they switch to the new interface around 2013 or 2016 with all the white space. The online version even works on Firefox on Linux. Teams works on Linux too. Remoting to windows servers is way more practical on Linux (Remmina) than windows. So I would say that for my client, the reason they still use windows is basically inertia. I'm using Linux full time and never had an issue interfacing with the other people working there.

the_af 6y ago

I noticed! I've been using Linux for decades, and Ubuntu since... 12.04 I think? It's the Linux Desktop for me. I game, I work, I watch movies, play music, connect to wireless stuff, I do pretty much everything I want -- it's a joy. (I always like telling how my wireless HP printer is easier to set up on Ubuntu than on OSX. It simply works on Ubuntu, but the Mac has trouble discovering it...)

twicetwice 6y ago
I've been slowly moving that way for years. I started dual-booting Windows and Ubuntu, Ubuntu for coding and Windows for everything else -- but over time I've been spending more and more time in Ubuntu, until I looked up one day and realized I used Windows for gaming and Ubuntu for everything else. I was going weeks without booting into Windows. And then last week after getting my computer back from repairs I did a clean install of Pop!_OS. No more Windows at all -- I have a fully Linux desktop. Granted I ended up leaving unallocated space for a Windows partition (shrinking a LUKS partition was not very fun, it took me two attempts) for when I eventually want to play some game, but who knows when that will be. Anyway, yeah, point is, for a sufficiently tech-savvy user, the year of the Linux Desktop has arrived. (And I could be wrong, but I think that threshold is actually pretty low. I'd guess that as long as you're not afraid of technology, you can handle installing Linux. Pop!_OS has a great installer and app store, too.)

smichel17 6y ago

I am not quite sure it was that early, but I agree it is in the past. Specifically, I contend that the year of the Linux desktop was some time before 2015, when Microsoft made (a version of) Windows (10) available gratis.

jsjohnst 6y ago

> MacOS keep falling further behind in usability on machines older than four years The huge user base of folks running thunderbolt 2 based MacBook pros from 2015 or earlier seems to disagree and a vocal minority of them say you can pry that model from their cold dead hands here on HN. It’s supported by the latest OSes with zero penalty, performance or otherwise.

thewhitetulip 6y ago
I'm using a 2012 model, won't ever replace it unless it breaks. Has been working perfectly with all updates and upgrades for 5+yrs