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The whole strategy here feels pretty unprecedented. Usually these kind of lawsuits happen in the background but Epic seems to be going full force with making i

The whole strategy here feels pretty unprecedented. Usually these kind of lawsuits happen in the background but Epic seems to be going full force with making it a public campaign. > Apple is blocking your ability to get the latest Fortnite updates! All players should have a choice in payment providers and save up to 20%. Apple wants to limit your payment choices! Join the fight against @AppStore on social with #FreeFortnite Can't imagine being in the room of Apple's PR team reacting to this.

chillacy 6y ago
The video also uses the word "monopoly", which plays right into the current anti-trust sentiment. Now's the best time to pull something like this. If I had to guess, Fortnite players probably drive a lot of demand for iPod Touch.
Pfhreak 6y ago
They not only had the lawsuit in hand and ready, but an ad and a deployment strategy to get it launched in game. Epic was clearly planning to go fully public at scale on this issue.
- user5994461 6y ago
  The Apple fees must be in the order of a million dollar every couple days for Epic Games. Expect a full-on battle of the same magnitude. It is well worth it.
  - sushid 6y ago
    You don't know that unless you know what the legal costs are, their odds of winning the suit, the lost $$ and opportunity cost due to no sales on iOS, the revenue loss from their 20% discount on V-Bucks, etc.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - mleo 6y ago
      The existing iOS devices that have the app installed seem fine unless Apple disables the certificate. So, it won't be no sales on iOS; just no new user sales.
    - Ancapistani 6y ago
      Also consider the massive “brand awareness” campaign that this represents.
      - jasonm23 6y ago
        Not that I support this action. Apple could probably go after Epic for the look and feel / copyright of the Ad. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN9jWl4Pkmg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN9jWl4Pkmg
  - lazyjones 6y ago
    Still, they are unlikely to be the real issue for Epic. I'm fully expecting some anti-consumer behaviour from them if they get away with their own payment system, like difficult to cancel payments, gambling or similar.
  - Youden 6y ago
    Estimates place it higher than that [0]: "Broken down further, "Fortnite" is said to have made $1.6 million each day on Apple's devices; if Apple is pulling in its standard cut of 30%, Apple made somewhere in the realm of $136.5 million on "Fortnite" in 2018.". [0]: https://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-does-fortnite-make-on-iphone-2019-1?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-does-fortnite-make-...
    - blahbhthrow3748 6y ago
      I mean, 136MM is a million every two days so OP is dead on.
    - matsemann 6y ago
      And some here argues that Apple gets paid fairly for what they provide.. I'm sure many could build payment + distribution cheaper than 100 million dollars..
    - filleduchaos 6y ago
      How is that higher than what the OP said? If anything, it's lower.
      - jasonm23 6y ago
        It's maybe in the region of $745,205.79 every two days, but sure close enough.
  - Apocryphon 6y ago
    Apple is in a constant state of being involved in lawsuits, though of course not all are of the same significance. Their legal team has a lot on their plate.
- TillE 6y ago
  Yeah but this was obvious from the moment they first announced the update. You don't do that without a plan, you certainly know what Apple's policy is.
ziddoap 6y ago
I'm not a fan of what Apple is doing, and am happy to see it be tested in court. But, I'm not a fan of another multi-million dollar company making such a blatant appeal to emotion, as if Fortnite needs to be "freed", to the common person who has no concept of how nuanced the legalities of this entire thing are. I'll be happy when the theatrics are over with, and we can simply view the outcome of the legal precedent that is about to be set. This is a battle for the courts, not Twitter.
- RaptorJ 6y ago
  putting aside the farce of judiciary-as-non-political-body, why wouldn't this also be a battle for the legislatures to consider?
  - SolarNet 6y ago
    I was going to comment Twitter != legislature. But uhm, fuck us right?
- dgudkov 6y ago
  That's correct, Epic's not altruistic here. But who else would be able to fight Apple's lawyers if not another multi-million dollar company?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - ziddoap 6y ago
    If they did so without overtly manipulating people via appeal to emotion and over-simplification, and not attempting to simultaneously run a PR campaign designed to whip people into a social media frenzy, I would not have the dirty taste in my mouth.
- darth_avocado 6y ago
  You should take a win when you get one. Yes it's another Billion dollar company going against Apple, but then, who else can actually go against them and not financially ruin themselves? Smaller Indie studios definitely can't
DenseComet 6y ago
What does a PR response to something to this look like? This happened late in the work day, does that mean that people stay longer, or is it handed off to a PR team in another timezone? Do executives like Tim Cook play a role in the response? I've never really thought about the PR response and would love to know more about what goes into it.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- onemiketwelve 6y ago
  I have a feeling the lawyers and pr people are staying later and assembling the team right now?
slg 6y ago
These public battles are commonplace when it comes to cable television carriage fees. The big media conglomerates will often raise fees causing a battle with the various big cable providers. Sometimes the cable providers will decide to walk away form negotiations and the media company will respond with a rash of TV commercials telling viewers to call their provider and demand they make a deal. However none of those commercials are even as well marketed as this ad.
CM30 6y ago
For better or worse, many individuals and companies have realised that the court of public opinion can have as much (or even more) of an effect than the legal system can. Hence instead of settling issues in private, now a lot of organisations are trying to set off a negative PR storm aimed at their opponents that paints them as the victim/underdog. So that's the real goal here. To cause enough of a social media controversy/enough drama over this that Apple is pressured to back down/reverse their decision without a court case, while the court case itself is a backup in case that doesn't work. I think we're going to see a lot more of this going forward, especially when it comes to individuals and companies going against opponents with significantly more resources than them. They may not fear your legal team/resources, but they might well fear their reputation being torn to shreds.
- sebmellen 6y ago
  It really seems that the court of public opinion has risen out of a dissatisfaction with courts of law. Of course, maligning the public opinion of your opponent is not a fair way to deliver justice, and it's a kangaroo court, but I wonder - if our legal system were better, would this phenomenon still arise?
  - jmcqk6 6y ago
    Oh man, you put this into words so well exactly what I have been thinking. We have a justice system that has massive problems, and there is very little change or improvement happening. Confidence in the system is at all time lows. It's not surprising that in these circumstances people are going to look elsewhere for whatever justice they can find.
  - CM30 6y ago
    To some degree this phenomenon might arise (simply because social media makes it really easy to form mobs/start controversies/whatever), but you're right, a lot of the reason this is so common is that people aren't happy with the legal system right now.
- pldr1234 6y ago
  Does nobody else see the sheer irony of a company like Epic releasing anything touching on the topics of 1984?
city41 6y ago
Basecamp (dhh at least), were very vocal about Apple's app store shenanigans when Hey was under a similar threat. Not quite as loud as Epic here, but still pretty visible. Maybe dhh influenced Epic.
Apocryphon 6y ago
I'm trying to remember how active Apple's PR was during their lawsuit against Samsung. I doubt that this is the first time that a corporation has tried to polish the optics around a lawsuit.

chillacy 6y ago

The video also uses the word "monopoly", which plays right into the current anti-trust sentiment. Now's the best time to pull something like this. If I had to guess, Fortnite players probably drive a lot of demand for iPod Touch.

Pfhreak 6y ago

They not only had the lawsuit in hand and ready, but an ad and a deployment strategy to get it launched in game. Epic was clearly planning to go fully public at scale on this issue.

user5994461 6y ago
The Apple fees must be in the order of a million dollar every couple days for Epic Games. Expect a full-on battle of the same magnitude. It is well worth it.
- sushid 6y ago
  You don't know that unless you know what the legal costs are, their odds of winning the suit, the lost $$ and opportunity cost due to no sales on iOS, the revenue loss from their 20% discount on V-Bucks, etc.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - mleo 6y ago
    The existing iOS devices that have the app installed seem fine unless Apple disables the certificate. So, it won't be no sales on iOS; just no new user sales.
  - Ancapistani 6y ago
    Also consider the massive “brand awareness” campaign that this represents.
    - jasonm23 6y ago
      Not that I support this action. Apple could probably go after Epic for the look and feel / copyright of the Ad. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN9jWl4Pkmg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN9jWl4Pkmg
- lazyjones 6y ago
  Still, they are unlikely to be the real issue for Epic. I'm fully expecting some anti-consumer behaviour from them if they get away with their own payment system, like difficult to cancel payments, gambling or similar.
- Youden 6y ago
  Estimates place it higher than that [0]: "Broken down further, "Fortnite" is said to have made $1.6 million each day on Apple's devices; if Apple is pulling in its standard cut of 30%, Apple made somewhere in the realm of $136.5 million on "Fortnite" in 2018.". [0]: https://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-does-fortnite-make-on-iphone-2019-1?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-does-fortnite-make-...
  - blahbhthrow3748 6y ago
    I mean, 136MM is a million every two days so OP is dead on.
  - matsemann 6y ago
    And some here argues that Apple gets paid fairly for what they provide.. I'm sure many could build payment + distribution cheaper than 100 million dollars..
  - filleduchaos 6y ago
    How is that higher than what the OP said? If anything, it's lower.
    - jasonm23 6y ago
      It's maybe in the region of $745,205.79 every two days, but sure close enough.
- Apocryphon 6y ago
  Apple is in a constant state of being involved in lawsuits, though of course not all are of the same significance. Their legal team has a lot on their plate.
TillE 6y ago
Yeah but this was obvious from the moment they first announced the update. You don't do that without a plan, you certainly know what Apple's policy is.

ziddoap 6y ago

I'm not a fan of what Apple is doing, and am happy to see it be tested in court. But, I'm not a fan of another multi-million dollar company making such a blatant appeal to emotion, as if Fortnite needs to be "freed", to the common person who has no concept of how nuanced the legalities of this entire thing are. I'll be happy when the theatrics are over with, and we can simply view the outcome of the legal precedent that is about to be set. This is a battle for the courts, not Twitter.

RaptorJ 6y ago
putting aside the farce of judiciary-as-non-political-body, why wouldn't this also be a battle for the legislatures to consider?
- SolarNet 6y ago
  I was going to comment Twitter != legislature. But uhm, fuck us right?
dgudkov 6y ago
That's correct, Epic's not altruistic here. But who else would be able to fight Apple's lawyers if not another multi-million dollar company?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- ziddoap 6y ago
  If they did so without overtly manipulating people via appeal to emotion and over-simplification, and not attempting to simultaneously run a PR campaign designed to whip people into a social media frenzy, I would not have the dirty taste in my mouth.
darth_avocado 6y ago
You should take a win when you get one. Yes it's another Billion dollar company going against Apple, but then, who else can actually go against them and not financially ruin themselves? Smaller Indie studios definitely can't

DenseComet 6y ago

What does a PR response to something to this look like? This happened late in the work day, does that mean that people stay longer, or is it handed off to a PR team in another timezone? Do executives like Tim Cook play a role in the response? I've never really thought about the PR response and would love to know more about what goes into it.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
onemiketwelve 6y ago
I have a feeling the lawyers and pr people are staying later and assembling the team right now?

slg 6y ago

These public battles are commonplace when it comes to cable television carriage fees. The big media conglomerates will often raise fees causing a battle with the various big cable providers. Sometimes the cable providers will decide to walk away form negotiations and the media company will respond with a rash of TV commercials telling viewers to call their provider and demand they make a deal. However none of those commercials are even as well marketed as this ad.

CM30 6y ago

For better or worse, many individuals and companies have realised that the court of public opinion can have as much (or even more) of an effect than the legal system can. Hence instead of settling issues in private, now a lot of organisations are trying to set off a negative PR storm aimed at their opponents that paints them as the victim/underdog. So that's the real goal here. To cause enough of a social media controversy/enough drama over this that Apple is pressured to back down/reverse their decision without a court case, while the court case itself is a backup in case that doesn't work. I think we're going to see a lot more of this going forward, especially when it comes to individuals and companies going against opponents with significantly more resources than them. They may not fear your legal team/resources, but they might well fear their reputation being torn to shreds.

sebmellen 6y ago
It really seems that the court of public opinion has risen out of a dissatisfaction with courts of law. Of course, maligning the public opinion of your opponent is not a fair way to deliver justice, and it's a kangaroo court, but I wonder - if our legal system were better, would this phenomenon still arise?
- jmcqk6 6y ago
  Oh man, you put this into words so well exactly what I have been thinking. We have a justice system that has massive problems, and there is very little change or improvement happening. Confidence in the system is at all time lows. It's not surprising that in these circumstances people are going to look elsewhere for whatever justice they can find.
- CM30 6y ago
  To some degree this phenomenon might arise (simply because social media makes it really easy to form mobs/start controversies/whatever), but you're right, a lot of the reason this is so common is that people aren't happy with the legal system right now.
pldr1234 6y ago
Does nobody else see the sheer irony of a company like Epic releasing anything touching on the topics of 1984?

city41 6y ago

Basecamp (dhh at least), were very vocal about Apple's app store shenanigans when Hey was under a similar threat. Not quite as loud as Epic here, but still pretty visible. Maybe dhh influenced Epic.

Apocryphon 6y ago

I'm trying to remember how active Apple's PR was during their lawsuit against Samsung. I doubt that this is the first time that a corporation has tried to polish the optics around a lawsuit.