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Fortnite of course expected this: seems like they’ve prepared a short video mocking Apple’s old super bowl ad 1984 to premiere in an hour https://twitter.com/fo
by xoxoy 6y ago
Fortnite of course expected this: seems like they’ve prepared a short video mocking Apple’s old super bowl ad 1984 to premiere in an hour https://twitter.com/fortnitegame/status/1293984290326433792?s=21 https://twitter.com/fortnitegame/status/1293984290326433792?...
- ecf 6y agoDoesn’t Epic take a cut out of every single purchase made of a game built with Unreal Engine? Seems kinda hypocritical that they’re taking this stance when their licensing model is arguably just as burdensome on developers. In my opinion, Epic should not put their app on the App Store if they don’t like the terms, just as they would tell a developer to not use their engine if they don’t like the terms.
- lfowles 6y ago> Doesn’t Epic take a cut out of every single purchase made of a game built with Unreal Engine? Only those that make >$1mil lifetime gross.
- moron4hire 6y agoNote that $1mil lifetime revenue is a very low boundary. A very small consulting operation of 2 or 3 people could easily hit that in a year or two. A single freelancer could probably hit it in 4 or 5 years. It's easy to read "a million dollars!" And think "we're rich!", but running any business has a lot of overhead.
- calcifer 6y agoThe limit is $1 million per app. How many games make more than $1 million throughout their lifetime? 99% of developers won't ever have a game earning that much.
- DuskStar 6y agoAt the same time, 99% of game revenue probably comes from games grossing more than $1m.
- tectec 6y agoWhat does consulting have to do with games?
- meheleventyone 6y agoEpic only takes a cut when revenue exceeds one million dollars and then only 5% which is considerably less than 30% on every transaction. I don’t think Epic are against fees so much as against ones as high as in the App Store.
- jariel 6y agoThat's right, but the basis of comparison is different. Apple has a monopoly on 1/2 of Smartphones users in the US, Android the other. This is a totally different scenario that 'choosing component vendors'.
- meheleventyone 6y agoAbsolutely, it wasn’t my comparison. That Apple has a monopoly and uses it to charge egregious fees is something I’m absolutely behind Epic in fighting.
- pythonaut_16 6y agoThe Unreal Engine license is like Epic giving you a toolbox for no upfront cost, but charging you 5% of whatever revenue you generate selling goods made using the toolbox. The App store comission is like Apple charging you 30% anytime you sell one of those goods to someone who lives in an Apple branded house. (To complete the analogy, maybe you're a door to door salesman and Apple charges you a "sidewalk usage fee" or something) One (Unreal Engine) is a licensing agreement for a tool with no upfront cost; the other is a tax on any sale made to an end user.
- ptudan 6y agoHow is the apple app store and development kit etc etc not a toolbox? Granted 30% is a ridiculous cut.
- somethingwitty1 6y agoYou can switch toolboxes. You can't switch app stores.
- frakkingcylons 6y agoUnreal Engine provides a lot more value to game developers than the App Store does as an app distribution platform.
- slongfield 6y agoIf a developer doesn't like Unreal's terms, there are other game engines. If a developer doesn't like Apple's terms, there are no viable alternatives for iOS distribution.
- ecf 6y agoBut there are other Smartphone platforms with their own store, correct? I don’t know why people feel it’s their undeniable right to be able to provide an app to iOS users.
- meheleventyone 6y agoIsn’t it the other way around that iOS users should be able to shop in competing stores for their apps? It’s just very few users have any real ability to affect that sort of change.
- almost_usual 6y agoI wouldn’t be opposed to this but Apple could make a case that using a competing app store voids warranty or care because they can no longer guarantee the software is ‘safe’ for iOS.
- damnyou 6y agoYes, which is why they should be mandated by law to include them anyway. Maybe that will force them to figure out a better security strategy.
- almost_usual 6y agoI don’t think our current law makers are technically competent enough to understand this.
- meheleventyone 6y agoIn a theoretical anti-trust investigation wouldn’t that been seen as extremely anti-competitive?
- coreblocks 6y agoBusinesses don’t make money by worrying about morality or worrying about hypocrisy.
- happytoexplain 6y agoThey certainly can, if indirectly. Edit: "do" -> "can"
- xoxoy 6y ago30% is extremely high by any reasonable standard for any marketplace
- wmf 6y agoFWIW brick and mortar stores usually take 40%.
- dangoor 6y agoDoesn't seem a fair comparison given the far more substantial costs of brick and mortar. Brick and mortar retailers do not, traditionally, have very large margins when all is said and done, whereas I think the App Store has quite significant margins for Apple.
- valuearb 6y agoLast I looked, Apples gross services margins were around 66%, which implies a break even for the store at a 10% fee.
- Someone 6y agoI think Apples service margins include an unspecified amount from Google for being the default search engine on iOS. And that’s a big fraction of their services. https://www.thestreet.com/investing/google-pays-apple-billions-to-be-default-search-engine-14865683 https://www.thestreet.com/investing/google-pays-apple-billio... estimates that at $9.48 billion over 2018.
- valuearb 6y agoThat implies that App Store margins are lower than I estimated, and it’s costs higher.
- edmundsauto 6y agoDumb question, but why is a vendor's cost a relevant input to evaluate fairness? Isn't a common theme around here to price based on value, not on cost?
- laumars 6y agoBusinesses don’t exist to define a moral compass. They exist to make money. Any large and successful company will happily play the “do as I say and not as I do” card as often as they think they’ll get away with it. I’m not saying it’s right but it’s pointless being shocked by the hypocrisy of the logic that businesses are run by.
- damnyou 6y agoBusinesses are legal fictions. There is no inherent reason shareholders should be the only constituency businesses serve.
- jhatemyjob 6y agoOkay sovereign citizen. Have fun living in your fantasy world
- damnyou 6y agoFar from it, I'm thinking more in terms of Liz Warren's Accountable Capitalism Act: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accountable_Capitalism_Act https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accountable_Capitalism_Act
- jhatemyjob 6y agoAh okay this at least makes some sense. I don't know how effective something like this would be, wouldn't this just incentivize hiring people that fit your political agenda? For instance let's say you hire a bunch of Chinese/Indian immigrants on H-1B visas, they'll just vote in people that benefit China/India Also the 1997-2011 era Apple probably wouldn't have worked under a law like this
- damnyou 6y ago> I don't know how effective something like this would be, wouldn't this just incentivize hiring people that fit your political agenda? That's what all companies already do: the political agenda of every publicly held large company today is to please its shareholders, and only to please its shareholders. The proposal changes the political agendas of large companies so that they also have to please their workers and communities. > For instance let's say you hire a bunch of Chinese/Indian immigrants on H-1B visas, they'll just vote in people that benefit China/India Kind of a pessimistic view of humanity there. Immigrants are just as good as native-born citizens at collectively deciding what's best for the organization they work in. > Also the 1997-2011 era Apple probably wouldn't have worked under a law like this Apple would certainly be different, but so would its competition.
- HacklesRaised 6y agoIt's not even remotely the same. They don't require you to distribute on the epic store. Moreover you don't owe them a penny for using the game engine until lifetime gross revenues exceed $1MM.
- gameswithgo 6y agoMaybe when you have a product anyone wants, you can decide what metagame to use to get it distributed.
- linuxhansl 6y agoApple's AppStore is a distribution channel. Taking a 30% cut of all future revenue from the game just because they established the initial install is waylaying!
- mdoms 6y agoA much smaller cut in a much more open market.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- anothermoron 6y agoThey also released this: https://cdn2.unrealengine.com/apple-complaint-734589783.pdf https://cdn2.unrealengine.com/apple-complaint-734589783.pdf
- nostrademons 6y agoThey also just filed a lawsuit (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24147486 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24147486). The strategist in me thinks that Epic Payments is a provocation rather than a product, they've been in touch with state attorney generals about Apple's antitrust situation, and the real goal is to get that lawsuit out, bring the antitrust hammer down on Apple, and maybe get some free PR and marketing from the press cycle.
- rriepe 6y agoIt's a great move. The industry needs a new platform hero since Valve seem completely distracted by VR.
- FriendlyNormie 6y agoShut the fuck up. These ungrateful faggots deserve a permanent ban. Someone more deserving will fill the vacuum. Maybe an indie developer struggling to pay rent will get a few thousand extra downloads now. You’re upset about this why? Stop worshipping Fortnite you soy chugging idiots.
- amrrs 6y agoJust when the "Apple Fellow" Phil Schiller wanted to take some break, These recent App Store incidents starting from HEY will make it very very hard for him!
- zyang 6y agoEpic is tied to Tencent. This is a risky move.
- jedberg 6y agoHere's the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqTNO8LTggI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqTNO8LTggI
- jeffrallen 6y ago#freeFortnite, cute.