8 ms·

I support Gus

110 points by stephenson 16y ago

teralaser 16y ago
As long as Denmark has a growing "Danish People's Party" (3rd largest at 13.8%) in a government supporting role, with the one-trick pony voter's appeal of immigration (thus they have to tighten and tighten it), I have 3 advices for anyone contemplating Denmark: 1) Do not move to Denmark or start a company in Denmark 2) Do not get an education in Denmark 3) Do not fall in love with a Dane (if you are a non-EU citizen) Danish educational institutions and companies go to a great extent to convince their surroundings, that they are international & business oriented, but the matter of fact is that this is not supported by the parliament. It is as simple as that. So don't get lured by their marketing. Stay out.
mzl 16y ago
I really don't understand Denmark when it comes to migration issues. They make it so hard to move there for non-EU citizens that it is ridiculous. As an example, I know of more than one married couple with one Dane and one non-eu citizen that have been forced to live in Sweden instead of in Denmark due to troubles getting residency permits. Not letting a legitimate spouse get at least residency is just crazy.
- MindTwister 16y ago
  Ah, but you see, for some reason we are terribly afraid of pro forma marriages being used for residency as well as marriage being used for [Family reunification]{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_reunification http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_reunification}
  - yannickmahe 16y ago
    This is a common fear in a lot of western countries. I really would like to see numbers on how many fake marriages have actually been avoided by the drastic policies in place, and see how that compares to the cost of enacting these policies. I am in a relationship with a foreigner (Chinese) in a country that has very strict laws on spousal visa (France). I dread the moment after we get married when we have to go through the whole process of the government checking if this is a real marriage...
    - ThomPete 16y ago
      There are a lot and the actual 24 year rule have actually resulted in two things. 1. Fewer forced marriages 2. More muslim women are taking higher education So it has some benefits although I am not as such a huge fan of that rule.
      - psykotic 16y ago
        The problem with immigration reform is that the effects are very long term whereas politics operates on the 4-year electoral cycle. When it comes down to Denmark's basic problems with non-assimilating immigrants, you won't be able to see clear effects, beneficial or otherwise, until a full generation and a half has passed. But everyone wants to take credit here and now for what progress has been made since the last one or two elections while blaming the opposition for stagnancy or regressive tendencies. In the areas you mentioned, I wouldn't be so quick to jump to easy conclusions about cause and effect. How much of the effect is due to Muslim women, many now third generation, having become more assimilated than their male counterparts, and so that's the larger part of the explanation for why they are entering higher education in increasing numbers? Besides, this fits the general emerging pattern in the modern world of male vs female skew in higher education. I'm sure the 24-year rule had some positive effect. How much isn't clear, and it would have to be weighed against its negative effects, equally hard to measure.
- MortenK 16y ago
  This is indeed a very common scenario. Danish people move to Sweden for a period of time, just to be able to get a residence permit for their foreign spouse. My wife is well educated, but due to her Russian nationality, getting her to the country legally will require a 6 months detour to Sweden. This case about Gus is, sadly not a surprising story. The Danish authorities is with one hand constantly speaking about attracting foreign expertise, while pushing qualified foreigners out of the country, with the other. Just last year, we attempted to get a 1 week visa for a Ukranian developer who was supposed to visit Denmark and meet with a client. We had to pay for a plane ticket and hotel in order to be able to apply for his visa. 2 days before his scheduled arrival, we got a rejection for his visa on the grounds that he was from a "high-risk" country. Fingers crossed for Gus.
  - mzl 16y ago
    Welcome to Sweden, I hope you like it here :) On a more serious note, I hope that it works out for you and your wife. Sweden is not always the best either, but at least spouses tend to get residency and AFAIK foreign expertise can typically get a work permit. Qualified migrants are such a net economic win, that I just don't see how one could actually be against it.
  - psykotic 16y ago
    > This is indeed a very common scenario. Danish people move to Sweden for a period of time, just to be able to get a residence permit for their foreign spouse. My wife is well educated, but due to her Russian nationality, getting her to the country legally will require a 6 months detour to Sweden. Every time I think about this, I get so pissed off. I am a textbook case of the Danish emigrant the politicians say they want back to Denmark. I work in technology and I make a lot of money; one reason I haven't worked in Denmark since I was a teenager is that no-one there can afford me. That said, I had seriously considered returning for good when I got kids. But the way the state has been treating returning Danish emigrants with foreign wives in the last decade, I feel the country has cut people like me off entirely. I don't feel welcome and doubt I will ever return.
- bruce511 16y ago
  Where you see crazy, those cunning Danes see "forward planning". For some of those (now married) Danes living overseas, coming home (without bringing the wife) might seem like an incentive...
- ThomPete 16y ago
  As a Dane I can only say I don't understand it either. But I can give you a couple of small hints as to why it (unfortunately) is like it is. 1. Denmark has a very beneficial social welfare system. If you break your leg in Denmark visiting, we will pick up the bill through our taxes (there is talks about changing that now) If you get approved to stay here you gain access to more or less all social welfare. Some people feel that this is being misused by immigrants. When they normally talk about immigrants they talk about arabs, africans etc. And there is some truth to that. If you marry someone not from the EU they will gain access to all social welfare. Because the nineties where ruled by a government that "just took people in" it created a backlash as problems started arising with ghettoes. This among other things lead to a (european style conservative) government backed by Danish Peoples Party a political party critical towards immigrants. Since they secure the parliamentary power they have been able to get a lot of cases through. One of them being the 24 year rule which basically is meant to hinder forced marriage between muslims living in Denmark and their spouses living in a country outside of EU. This has been criticized by both left and right side of the political spectrum and is why some people move to sweden because they are much more lax about these things. Personally I am a proponent of an open borders closed boxes policy and is voting for the only true liberal (semi american style) party that exist right now (form an ideological point of view) and I am sad to see every time people like Gus get's en trouble because of the splash damage that some of these laws result in. Good thing is that Denmark is a small country and there is an election year. I am pretty sure that this will be taken up by the newspapers in Denmark and hopefully make it's way into the political debates on television. It's a perfect case for that. I am also pretty sure Gus will be able to stay. The current government simply don't want to run the risk of angering their political base.
  - tjogin 16y ago
    Although, these things are true of Sweden as well.
  - nanijoe 16y ago
    "Some people feel that this is being misused by immigrants. When they normally talk about immigrants they talk about arabs, africans etc. And there is some truth to that." Are you suggesting that the immigration laws were made to catch/discourage a specific group of people?
- jaysonelliot 16y ago
  It sounds crazy and difficult, but I can't condemn them for it. Here in America, we're three hundred million people in a country bigger than all of Europe combined. The more people that move here, the better. Our culture is built on blending other cultures together and changing from generation to generation. Denmark is a tiny country, home to just five and half million Danes. Danish culture doesn't exist anywhere else. If it disappears, it's gone forever. You have to be more careful with it. What works in one country doesn't work everywhere.
  - Terretta 16y ago
    > The more people that move here, the better. Our culture is built on blending other cultures together and changing from generation to generation. This used to be true. It is no longer true. Now, many of those who move here fight to preserve their distinct culture, and to stay separate and apart. Thirty years ago, immigrant parents forced kids to only speak English even in the home. Newly arrived parents look for ways to have their kids speak their native language and stay within the group for their friends, saying, "I don't want them to be like Americans." Among the various immigrant communities I'm familiar with, the "melting pot" ethos is history except in rare cases.
    - davidw 16y ago
      > It is no longer true. [citation needed] To me it sounds like nativist BS. Anyone who wants to get ahead in the US learns English and learns it well, it's as simple as that. In any case, I think it's good that people hang on to something. Interacting with various Italian groups in the past, when I was in the US, I'd meet middle aged people who spoke little or no Italian because their Italian parents or grandparents had not taught them. Many of them were sad that they'd never learned the language. Forcing your kids to be monolingual is a travesty and something they can never get back as adults: only as a child will you really learn to speak several languages well.
      - RuadhanMc 16y ago
        "[citation needed]" is a pretty useless comment (not to mention passive aggressive and hypocritical if you then go onto make a statement which could also use a citation).
- chalst 16y ago
  An issue that magnifies immigration issues in the EU is that populist rhetoric tends to focus on the total immigration headline figure (ignoring emigration), not noting that many migrants are short-term, such as students, and that EU rules compel member states to allow immigration of other EU nationals to take up employment. This leaves anti-immigration politicians with powers not of the scale of the problems they conjure. I think that accurate reporting and holding to account of politicians by the media would make a big difference.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
rauljara 16y ago
Whenever I read about a campaign to stop someone from being deported, I am almost always sympathetic and supportive. But I also can't help but think about the people who are no less deserving of support, but don't have a community with the means/wherewithal to launch such a campaign behind them. Yes, people should work hard to stop Gus from being deported. But if the campaign stops once Gus' situation is resolved the campaign will be a minor victory at best. Gus' situation is a symptom of a disease. It is the disease itself which must be cured
- joelhaasnoot 16y ago
  Indeed, this sounds like a case to present to an ombudsman... Someone like this: http://www.ombudsmanden.dk/english_en/ http://www.ombudsmanden.dk/english_en/
- neek 16y ago
  That's very true and I couldn't agree more but all causes need figureheads and knowing Gus as I do I'm sure that once he's got through this situation with help from the community he'll be right back in there to help the other people in similar situations that aren't able to raise a similar level of support.
- Stuk 16y ago
  Very true, but just because you can't help everyone doesn't mean you shouldn't help someone.
Steer 16y ago
Agree with all the points about Denmark; as a Swede I'm happy that we at least are somewhat better at making it possible to immigrate. I'm very curious as to what impact this campaign can have on the Danish authorities. I would guess none if it doesn't get picked up by the Danish (print) media and since Gus isn't a classical victim (meaning poor, uneducated, a child and so on) I don't see that happening. Unfortunately. That said, it's nice to see someone putting down actual work in creating a web site for a friend instead of the usual "create a facebook group" or "retweet to show support" which to me feels like the most lazy way to show that you care.
ThomPete 16y ago
As predicted it is now front page on one of the biggest danish newspapers http://www.b.dk/ http://www.b.dk/
- Steer 16y ago
  I guess I underestimated the Danish papers, didn't think they would pick up on this. Good for Gus!
nopinsight 16y ago
An informative comment by a Dane in this thread suggests that the Danish immigration system tries to prevent immigrants using/exploiting its great social welfare benefits while contributing little to the society or causing problems like forming ghettos. A straightforward way to address this issue is to deploy a point system currently used by several countries, including Canada and Singapore. I wonder why Denmark and the US, in particular, do not use this obvious sort of point-based system. There will likely be a massive 'brain draw' towards the US if this is implemented and specialized Startup Visa may not even be needed if the criteria/formulas are selected well. In the Danish system, it looks like the criteria are not optimized towards its real goals and use non-optimal proxy criteria like EU citizenship to make decision on immigration. This creates many weird cases like this (it is obvious from his resume that Gus will contribute as much or more to the Danish society than an average Danish citizen, yet he cannot stay there) and many we did not hear of. Note: It is true that the politicians needs to balance the issues of cultural assimilation with economic advantages gained from getting all these qualified immigrants (for example, the US might not want 2 million qualified Chinese and Indians coming in every year and form cliques within the country), but this requirement is easily satisfied by a good quota/bucket system.
- psykotic 16y ago
  The right-wing parties like Dansk Folkeparti have recently begun talking about a reform in which new immigrants wouldn't be eligible for social welfare for the first one or two years. I am strongly against such legislation because it makes potential high-caliber immigrants feel like milk cattle. When you're a newly arrived immigrant in the highest tax bracket, you deserve at least the same basic level of social welfare as everyone else in the country, from day one. From a marketing perspective, Denmark's social system is one of its greatest strengths. Were you to listen to Danish politicians, you'd think the country had a monopoly on creativity and innovation. The reality is that Denmark is solid in those areas but not enough of a stand-out to make it a unique selling point. If the country wants to draw more highly skilled immigrants, it needs to make them feel welcomed.
  - pelle 16y ago
random42 16y ago
It is very difficult for me to take a side without hearing views from all the sides for a story. Google was not much help. Any links where I can see the Denmark Government's Point of View of his kicking (any relevant documents etc.)?
- RuadhanMc 16y ago
  The thing you can probably research is inter-department communication in Government agencies in Denmark. If its anything like Sweden then Government departments behave in a mostly autonomous fashion where decisions are made based on the departments mandate and prerogatives, irregardless of what decisions have previously been made by other Government departments. It can lead to some strange situations.
mixmax 16y ago
I'm Danish, and unfortunately this story doesn't surprise me. My brother's Australian girlfriend was unable to get a residence here (He's an engineer, she's a lawyer), one of my good friends' girlfriend from Brazil couldn't get a residence here even though they have a five year old son that's born and raised in Denmark. All of them are hardworking people that can take care of themselves. The list goes on. The problem is that around ten years ago the current conservative minority government was formed, and to gain a majority they have relied on the right-wing Danish people party whose primary, and maybe only agenda is stopping immigration. This has lead to a political reality where the Danish People party has voted yes to whatever legislation from the government in return for further restraints and barriers for immigrants. They've used their position extremely well, and have used their platform to alienate immigrants and make them all out as devils in the minds of the people. Ten years of this has unfortunately marked the country. The tone in the media is increasingly harsh towards immigrants, and other parties have started adopting the stance of the Danish People party since it's pretty successful - after all the Danish People party has had a decade to convince Danes that immigrants are only here to steal our jobs and use our social services. As a result we've become a country of people that despise immigrants. It's a very sad state of affairs, and this website is only one of many examples. I feel terrible about what my country has become.
- Robin_Message 16y ago
  It feels like the same is true for the UK and the USA – perhaps the whole western whole? That particular political situation doesn't sound ideal though.
gusmurray 16y ago
Thanks for all your support, so far my case has been picked up by several media outlets but I am yet to get a response from any of the political representatives. However, the fat lady hasn't sung so I won't be dropping the ball just yet. My case, I believe, highlights some of the inefficiencies and absurdities that are in place, within some governmental organizations. I fully recognize that because of my involvement with entrepreneurship and my network I have managed to gain a great amount of support to my case. Saying that, there are many smarter and more brilliant people out there who's case will remain silent and they'll just disappear into the night. I hope, if one thing, my case can be an example of what others can do to show that a country shouldn't be known by it's policies and procedures but by the amazing people within it that won't lay down but are willing to voice their disapproval to cases like mine. Thanks again for your support!

110 points by stephenson 16y ago

As long as Denmark has a growing "Danish People's Party" (3rd largest at 13.8%) in a government supporting role, with the one-trick pony voter's appeal of immigration (thus they have to tighten and tighten it), I have 3 advices for anyone contemplating Denmark: 1) Do not move to Denmark or start a company in Denmark 2) Do not get an education in Denmark 3) Do not fall in love with a Dane (if you are a non-EU citizen) Danish educational institutions and companies go to a great extent to convince their surroundings, that they are international & business oriented, but the matter of fact is that this is not supported by the parliament. It is as simple as that. So don't get lured by their marketing. Stay out.

mzl 16y ago

I really don't understand Denmark when it comes to migration issues. They make it so hard to move there for non-EU citizens that it is ridiculous. As an example, I know of more than one married couple with one Dane and one non-eu citizen that have been forced to live in Sweden instead of in Denmark due to troubles getting residency permits. Not letting a legitimate spouse get at least residency is just crazy.

MindTwister 16y ago
Ah, but you see, for some reason we are terribly afraid of pro forma marriages being used for residency as well as marriage being used for [Family reunification]{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_reunification http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_reunification}
- yannickmahe 16y ago
  This is a common fear in a lot of western countries. I really would like to see numbers on how many fake marriages have actually been avoided by the drastic policies in place, and see how that compares to the cost of enacting these policies. I am in a relationship with a foreigner (Chinese) in a country that has very strict laws on spousal visa (France). I dread the moment after we get married when we have to go through the whole process of the government checking if this is a real marriage...
  - ThomPete 16y ago
    There are a lot and the actual 24 year rule have actually resulted in two things. 1. Fewer forced marriages 2. More muslim women are taking higher education So it has some benefits although I am not as such a huge fan of that rule.
    - psykotic 16y ago
      The problem with immigration reform is that the effects are very long term whereas politics operates on the 4-year electoral cycle. When it comes down to Denmark's basic problems with non-assimilating immigrants, you won't be able to see clear effects, beneficial or otherwise, until a full generation and a half has passed. But everyone wants to take credit here and now for what progress has been made since the last one or two elections while blaming the opposition for stagnancy or regressive tendencies. In the areas you mentioned, I wouldn't be so quick to jump to easy conclusions about cause and effect. How much of the effect is due to Muslim women, many now third generation, having become more assimilated than their male counterparts, and so that's the larger part of the explanation for why they are entering higher education in increasing numbers? Besides, this fits the general emerging pattern in the modern world of male vs female skew in higher education. I'm sure the 24-year rule had some positive effect. How much isn't clear, and it would have to be weighed against its negative effects, equally hard to measure.
MortenK 16y ago
This is indeed a very common scenario. Danish people move to Sweden for a period of time, just to be able to get a residence permit for their foreign spouse. My wife is well educated, but due to her Russian nationality, getting her to the country legally will require a 6 months detour to Sweden. This case about Gus is, sadly not a surprising story. The Danish authorities is with one hand constantly speaking about attracting foreign expertise, while pushing qualified foreigners out of the country, with the other. Just last year, we attempted to get a 1 week visa for a Ukranian developer who was supposed to visit Denmark and meet with a client. We had to pay for a plane ticket and hotel in order to be able to apply for his visa. 2 days before his scheduled arrival, we got a rejection for his visa on the grounds that he was from a "high-risk" country. Fingers crossed for Gus.
- mzl 16y ago
  Welcome to Sweden, I hope you like it here :) On a more serious note, I hope that it works out for you and your wife. Sweden is not always the best either, but at least spouses tend to get residency and AFAIK foreign expertise can typically get a work permit. Qualified migrants are such a net economic win, that I just don't see how one could actually be against it.
- psykotic 16y ago
  > This is indeed a very common scenario. Danish people move to Sweden for a period of time, just to be able to get a residence permit for their foreign spouse. My wife is well educated, but due to her Russian nationality, getting her to the country legally will require a 6 months detour to Sweden. Every time I think about this, I get so pissed off. I am a textbook case of the Danish emigrant the politicians say they want back to Denmark. I work in technology and I make a lot of money; one reason I haven't worked in Denmark since I was a teenager is that no-one there can afford me. That said, I had seriously considered returning for good when I got kids. But the way the state has been treating returning Danish emigrants with foreign wives in the last decade, I feel the country has cut people like me off entirely. I don't feel welcome and doubt I will ever return.
bruce511 16y ago
Where you see crazy, those cunning Danes see "forward planning". For some of those (now married) Danes living overseas, coming home (without bringing the wife) might seem like an incentive...
ThomPete 16y ago
As a Dane I can only say I don't understand it either. But I can give you a couple of small hints as to why it (unfortunately) is like it is. 1. Denmark has a very beneficial social welfare system. If you break your leg in Denmark visiting, we will pick up the bill through our taxes (there is talks about changing that now) If you get approved to stay here you gain access to more or less all social welfare. Some people feel that this is being misused by immigrants. When they normally talk about immigrants they talk about arabs, africans etc. And there is some truth to that. If you marry someone not from the EU they will gain access to all social welfare. Because the nineties where ruled by a government that "just took people in" it created a backlash as problems started arising with ghettoes. This among other things lead to a (european style conservative) government backed by Danish Peoples Party a political party critical towards immigrants. Since they secure the parliamentary power they have been able to get a lot of cases through. One of them being the 24 year rule which basically is meant to hinder forced marriage between muslims living in Denmark and their spouses living in a country outside of EU. This has been criticized by both left and right side of the political spectrum and is why some people move to sweden because they are much more lax about these things. Personally I am a proponent of an open borders closed boxes policy and is voting for the only true liberal (semi american style) party that exist right now (form an ideological point of view) and I am sad to see every time people like Gus get's en trouble because of the splash damage that some of these laws result in. Good thing is that Denmark is a small country and there is an election year. I am pretty sure that this will be taken up by the newspapers in Denmark and hopefully make it's way into the political debates on television. It's a perfect case for that. I am also pretty sure Gus will be able to stay. The current government simply don't want to run the risk of angering their political base.
- tjogin 16y ago
  Although, these things are true of Sweden as well.
- nanijoe 16y ago
  "Some people feel that this is being misused by immigrants. When they normally talk about immigrants they talk about arabs, africans etc. And there is some truth to that." Are you suggesting that the immigration laws were made to catch/discourage a specific group of people?
jaysonelliot 16y ago
It sounds crazy and difficult, but I can't condemn them for it. Here in America, we're three hundred million people in a country bigger than all of Europe combined. The more people that move here, the better. Our culture is built on blending other cultures together and changing from generation to generation. Denmark is a tiny country, home to just five and half million Danes. Danish culture doesn't exist anywhere else. If it disappears, it's gone forever. You have to be more careful with it. What works in one country doesn't work everywhere.
- Terretta 16y ago
  > The more people that move here, the better. Our culture is built on blending other cultures together and changing from generation to generation. This used to be true. It is no longer true. Now, many of those who move here fight to preserve their distinct culture, and to stay separate and apart. Thirty years ago, immigrant parents forced kids to only speak English even in the home. Newly arrived parents look for ways to have their kids speak their native language and stay within the group for their friends, saying, "I don't want them to be like Americans." Among the various immigrant communities I'm familiar with, the "melting pot" ethos is history except in rare cases.
  - davidw 16y ago
    > It is no longer true. [citation needed] To me it sounds like nativist BS. Anyone who wants to get ahead in the US learns English and learns it well, it's as simple as that. In any case, I think it's good that people hang on to something. Interacting with various Italian groups in the past, when I was in the US, I'd meet middle aged people who spoke little or no Italian because their Italian parents or grandparents had not taught them. Many of them were sad that they'd never learned the language. Forcing your kids to be monolingual is a travesty and something they can never get back as adults: only as a child will you really learn to speak several languages well.
    - RuadhanMc 16y ago
      "[citation needed]" is a pretty useless comment (not to mention passive aggressive and hypocritical if you then go onto make a statement which could also use a citation).
chalst 16y ago
An issue that magnifies immigration issues in the EU is that populist rhetoric tends to focus on the total immigration headline figure (ignoring emigration), not noting that many migrants are short-term, such as students, and that EU rules compel member states to allow immigration of other EU nationals to take up employment. This leaves anti-immigration politicians with powers not of the scale of the problems they conjure. I think that accurate reporting and holding to account of politicians by the media would make a big difference.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

rauljara 16y ago

Whenever I read about a campaign to stop someone from being deported, I am almost always sympathetic and supportive. But I also can't help but think about the people who are no less deserving of support, but don't have a community with the means/wherewithal to launch such a campaign behind them. Yes, people should work hard to stop Gus from being deported. But if the campaign stops once Gus' situation is resolved the campaign will be a minor victory at best. Gus' situation is a symptom of a disease. It is the disease itself which must be cured

joelhaasnoot 16y ago
Indeed, this sounds like a case to present to an ombudsman... Someone like this: http://www.ombudsmanden.dk/english_en/ http://www.ombudsmanden.dk/english_en/
neek 16y ago
That's very true and I couldn't agree more but all causes need figureheads and knowing Gus as I do I'm sure that once he's got through this situation with help from the community he'll be right back in there to help the other people in similar situations that aren't able to raise a similar level of support.
Stuk 16y ago
Very true, but just because you can't help everyone doesn't mean you shouldn't help someone.

Steer 16y ago

Agree with all the points about Denmark; as a Swede I'm happy that we at least are somewhat better at making it possible to immigrate. I'm very curious as to what impact this campaign can have on the Danish authorities. I would guess none if it doesn't get picked up by the Danish (print) media and since Gus isn't a classical victim (meaning poor, uneducated, a child and so on) I don't see that happening. Unfortunately. That said, it's nice to see someone putting down actual work in creating a web site for a friend instead of the usual "create a facebook group" or "retweet to show support" which to me feels like the most lazy way to show that you care.

ThomPete 16y ago

As predicted it is now front page on one of the biggest danish newspapers http://www.b.dk/ http://www.b.dk/

Steer 16y ago
I guess I underestimated the Danish papers, didn't think they would pick up on this. Good for Gus!

nopinsight 16y ago

An informative comment by a Dane in this thread suggests that the Danish immigration system tries to prevent immigrants using/exploiting its great social welfare benefits while contributing little to the society or causing problems like forming ghettos. A straightforward way to address this issue is to deploy a point system currently used by several countries, including Canada and Singapore. I wonder why Denmark and the US, in particular, do not use this obvious sort of point-based system. There will likely be a massive 'brain draw' towards the US if this is implemented and specialized Startup Visa may not even be needed if the criteria/formulas are selected well. In the Danish system, it looks like the criteria are not optimized towards its real goals and use non-optimal proxy criteria like EU citizenship to make decision on immigration. This creates many weird cases like this (it is obvious from his resume that Gus will contribute as much or more to the Danish society than an average Danish citizen, yet he cannot stay there) and many we did not hear of. Note: It is true that the politicians needs to balance the issues of cultural assimilation with economic advantages gained from getting all these qualified immigrants (for example, the US might not want 2 million qualified Chinese and Indians coming in every year and form cliques within the country), but this requirement is easily satisfied by a good quota/bucket system.

psykotic 16y ago
The right-wing parties like Dansk Folkeparti have recently begun talking about a reform in which new immigrants wouldn't be eligible for social welfare for the first one or two years. I am strongly against such legislation because it makes potential high-caliber immigrants feel like milk cattle. When you're a newly arrived immigrant in the highest tax bracket, you deserve at least the same basic level of social welfare as everyone else in the country, from day one. From a marketing perspective, Denmark's social system is one of its greatest strengths. Were you to listen to Danish politicians, you'd think the country had a monopoly on creativity and innovation. The reality is that Denmark is solid in those areas but not enough of a stand-out to make it a unique selling point. If the country wants to draw more highly skilled immigrants, it needs to make them feel welcomed.
- pelle 16y ago

random42 16y ago

It is very difficult for me to take a side without hearing views from all the sides for a story. Google was not much help. Any links where I can see the Denmark Government's Point of View of his kicking (any relevant documents etc.)?

RuadhanMc 16y ago
The thing you can probably research is inter-department communication in Government agencies in Denmark. If its anything like Sweden then Government departments behave in a mostly autonomous fashion where decisions are made based on the departments mandate and prerogatives, irregardless of what decisions have previously been made by other Government departments. It can lead to some strange situations.

mixmax 16y ago

I'm Danish, and unfortunately this story doesn't surprise me. My brother's Australian girlfriend was unable to get a residence here (He's an engineer, she's a lawyer), one of my good friends' girlfriend from Brazil couldn't get a residence here even though they have a five year old son that's born and raised in Denmark. All of them are hardworking people that can take care of themselves. The list goes on. The problem is that around ten years ago the current conservative minority government was formed, and to gain a majority they have relied on the right-wing Danish people party whose primary, and maybe only agenda is stopping immigration. This has lead to a political reality where the Danish People party has voted yes to whatever legislation from the government in return for further restraints and barriers for immigrants. They've used their position extremely well, and have used their platform to alienate immigrants and make them all out as devils in the minds of the people. Ten years of this has unfortunately marked the country. The tone in the media is increasingly harsh towards immigrants, and other parties have started adopting the stance of the Danish People party since it's pretty successful - after all the Danish People party has had a decade to convince Danes that immigrants are only here to steal our jobs and use our social services. As a result we've become a country of people that despise immigrants. It's a very sad state of affairs, and this website is only one of many examples. I feel terrible about what my country has become.

Robin_Message 16y ago
It feels like the same is true for the UK and the USA – perhaps the whole western whole? That particular political situation doesn't sound ideal though.

gusmurray 16y ago

Thanks for all your support, so far my case has been picked up by several media outlets but I am yet to get a response from any of the political representatives. However, the fat lady hasn't sung so I won't be dropping the ball just yet. My case, I believe, highlights some of the inefficiencies and absurdities that are in place, within some governmental organizations. I fully recognize that because of my involvement with entrepreneurship and my network I have managed to gain a great amount of support to my case. Saying that, there are many smarter and more brilliant people out there who's case will remain silent and they'll just disappear into the night. I hope, if one thing, my case can be an example of what others can do to show that a country shouldn't be known by it's policies and procedures but by the amazing people within it that won't lay down but are willing to voice their disapproval to cases like mine. Thanks again for your support!