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I won't be buying Intel CPUs for years to come. Haven't upgraded since 2016. Years of "incremental" improvements while still advertising $1000+ CPU prices has d
by xyst 6y ago
I won't be buying Intel CPUs for years to come. Haven't upgraded since 2016. Years of "incremental" improvements while still advertising $1000+ CPU prices has deterred me for quite some time. Intel fanboys might eat it up though.
Given their history of significant delays in the current roadmap, how does this compare to their competition who is quickly advancing on 10nm?
Also what is this internal naming schema?
> The 14nm process node has been Intel’s most profitable manufacturing node to date, and continuous intranode enhancements over the years (14+, 14++, 14+++, 14++++*)
This reads like a satire article.
- alfiedotwtf 6y agoEveryone I know, including myself, have gone AMD 39xx. Damn what a beast at a reasonable price.
- mattferderer 6y agoI was very hesitant due to past experiences with AMD over 20 years, especially drivers. I ended up going with a Ryzen 9 though & it's been flawless so far. Great performance. Wouldn't look at an Intel anytime in the near future for a CPU.
- willis936 6y agoRight? I assembled a number crunching machine for $1200 a few months ago. The 3900X was under $400 at the time. I can’t imagine spending an extra 50% on a comparable machine just say I can say it has Intel Inside.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- SloopJon 6y agoIf I build a new computer to replace my Ivy Bridge hackintosh, the only thing that would keep me on Intel at this point is the desire to build one last hackintosh before Apple goes full ARM. At the middle level, say Ryzen 3700X vs i7-9700, they're pretty close.
- SaltySolomon 6y agoIts quite possible to build an AMD-Hackintosh, its quite in stlye really.
- typh00n 6y agodepending on your workload you will have some troubles with an amd hackintosh (e.g. logic plugins)
- KMnO4 6y agoI would absolutely love to do this but AMD is somewhat annoying when running MacOS. 1. Really bad VM support. No Hypervisor framwork, which means problems with Docker (apparently some workarounds for Docker specifically, but not 100% stable). Things like Parallels Desktop, Android VMs, etc won't work. 2. Problems with Adobe suite apps crashing on boot. Some patches exist but last I checked there was nothing for Lightroom (which I use a lot). 3. Things like iMessage, Facetime, Siri, etc won't work 4. Uses a custom kernel and there can be hassles related to power management. etc. My use case would have lots of problems, but it's definitely a great option for people who don't need VMs or Adobe.
- jagger27 6y agoiMessage works in my experience, not sure where you heard that.
- jimbobimbo 6y agoI was upgrading a year or so ago, after the Spectre and Meltdown were discovered and patched by essentially slowing down CPUs. Went with AMD and never looked back.
- frankc 6y agoAt this point though intel has slashed their price/core to be competitive if not better than threadripper. They don't have anything that compete in core count, but if you look at the 9980/10980 series with 18 cores, its very competitive on a price basis per core with the 24/32/64 core threadrippers. If you want max cores then you still need to go with threadripper but if 18 is enough, i don't get all the hate 10980 gets. There are certain linear algebra related workloads where the intels excel and why I would probably go with the 10980x were I to upgrade (which im probably not, 4 year old pc doing fine)
- Klinky 6y agoPractically every review for the 3960X shows it's significantly faster at productivity applications than a 10980XE. Leaving six cores on the table is significant. If you have a primarily single-threaded task, then you should just go for a 10900K.
- gruez 6y ago>They don't have anything that compete in core count, but if you look at the 9980/10980 series with 18 cores, its very competitive on a price basis per core with the 24/32/64 core threadrippers. That's not a fair comparison, considering that price per core usually goes up the more cores there are. Also, if you check pcpartpicker you'll see all the i9s with greater than 12 cores are either sold out, or well above their MRSP.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 6y agoI don't understand why the pricing of Intel's enthusiast CPUs should affect your buying decision if you're not in the market for an enthusiast cpu. That being said, if what you've got is working for you I certainly support the idea of sticking with it.
- ResidentSleeper 6y agoBeing in the market for an enthusiast CPU is predicated on being enthusiastic about CPUs in the first place, and that's become somewhat difficult in the last couple of years.
- Causality1 6y agoIndeed. My old self-imposed rule was that upgrading was a waste of money unless I could get at least twice the performance. Manufacturers have generated high benchmarks by throwing "moar cores" at it but even the best chips have barely a 40% single-thread increase over my seven year old Haswell build.
- leetcrew 6y agoare all your workloads single/lightly threaded? my 9700k compiles c++ two to three times faster than my old 4770k.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- hddherman 6y ago40% single thread increase, but most likely 100+% increase in core count. CPU manufacturers did not slap more cores on a CPU to get high benchmark scores, it's just one of the few viable options for increasing CPU performance.
- londons_explore 6y ago
- apotecaryman 6y agoI never understood this idea that someone feels sleighted for something out of their price range that they perceive should be valued lower for their benefit while complaining that the company is setting up prices for their benefit too. Is it grounded on facts or mostly an emotional response?
- mberning 6y agoA very succinct description of a common thought pattern. You see it frequently applied to premium brands like Apple and BMW.
- bsanr2 6y ago"It's not FOR you," he sniffed, nose pointed precisely at 10 o'clock.
- NikolaeVarius 6y agoSee every single thread about a luxury/clearly low run smartphone.
- fortran77 6y agoI see this all the time, in every area. Bicycle forums are filled with hate for "casual bikers" who buy $5,000 bicycles and all the expensive accessories. My feeling is "good for them! They help the industry and help finance the lower-end models." Some people are just too petty to see the "enthusiast" market also drives the low-end.
- hobofan 6y ago> They help the industry and help finance the lower-end models Do they though? From how most companies operate that I've seen from the inside, I would assume that such a market response would shift their focus towards high-end models, and low-end models will be neglected. Sure, there is somewhat of a technology trickle down towards lower-end models over time, but that seems to be driven on an industry/supplier/competition level and mostly disconnected from luxury consumers. Especially "_financing_ the lower-end models" seems unlikely, as no manufacturer would lower the prices on the lower-end models, just because they make "enough" on the high-end ones. The only way this would apply would be through shared overhead, which given that we are talking about different product lines often tends to be minimal.
- paulie_a 6y agoMeanwhile amd has been cleaning their clock for decades at a better price point. Literally there were people born that can legally drink now. Intel is the grey goose of chips. Amd gets the job done
- richthegeek 6y agoMy first CPU at age ~8 was a Pentium Pro, followed by a Pentium II. That was the last Intel CPU I ever owned. I stuck on an FX8350 for a while, and it was never the bottleneck for gaming performane compared to the GPU. For a non-enthusiast, AMD has been a great choice almost for my whole life.
- y-c-o-m-b 6y agoI've gone back and forth over the last 3 decades. My dad has been an employee at Intel since 1995, so I started with the original Pentium and basically upgraded my CPU every year from the 90s to the mid 2000s. I don't engage in fanboyism, I just like to have the best bang for my buck. So I've had a few opportunities to try AMD CPUs - mainly the Athlon series (Thunderbird, XP, and 64 series). My biggest issue with the AMD CPUs was always heat management; those chips got HOT. In laptops they were almost unusable after a few months because they would get so hot, components would start to melt. My first AMD laptop I had to send back after 3 months due to the heat issue. It cost me $99 to get it repaired and a 6-week wait time. That left a bitter taste in my mouth and put me off of AMD. Do you know if the heat issues are still prominent? I wouldn't mind giving AMD another chance
- ac29 6y agoAt various times in their history where AMD was behind in core design, manufacturing, or both, they cranked power (and thus heat) up to fairly obscene levels to attempt to compete with Intel. That's not the case now with Zen and TSMC 7nm - you cant really compare an AMD CPU now to one even 5 years old, much less 20 years old.
- lhl 6y agoFor laptops this generation (Intel Ice Lake vs AMD Renoir), there are now several reviews of the "same" laptop chassis with both versions: Lenovo IdeaPad S540-13: https://next.lab501.ro/notebook/english-lenovo-ideapad-s540-13are-vs-13iml-amd-ryzen-7-4800u-vs-intel-core-i7-10710u https://next.lab501.ro/notebook/english-lenovo-ideapad-s540-... Lenovo ThinkPad 14s: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-T14s-Review-Business-laptop-is-better-with-AMD.485220.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-T14s-Review-Bu... XMG Gaming Laptop comparison: https://www.techspot.com/review/2075-same-laptop-different-cpu-productivity/ https://www.techspot.com/review/2075-same-laptop-different-c... TLDR: AMD significantly outperforms Intel in absolute performance and performance per watt; battery life is about equal - depends on implementation and how its measured (Intel is still a little better on idle, video playback, but much worse under load), temps usually limited by laptop's thermal solution, but under high TDP, favors AMD. The Tiger Lake U chips should be pretty competitive with Renoir at 15W, especially as there are almost no AMD options paired with 16:10 or HiDPI displays - we'll have to see when they come out. Tiger Lake H isn't expected until Q1 2021 and will have to compete with Cezanne (Zen 3 core, which is expected to have some pretty big IPC gains).
- 013a 6y agoIntel's CPUs today are still king when it comes to single-thread workloads, like gaming. The main difference in the past two years has been that AMD has taken the lead in multi-thread performance, and that's scared Intel so much that they've significantly improved multi-thread performance and price across the board. The difference is quite stark, in both directions [1]: AMD destroys Intel in anything that benefits from multiple cores at the same product tier (Ryzen 9 3900x vs i9 10900k), in some workloads as high as 50%. But, Intel wins when gaming; usually by around 5-10%. The more measured position is: If you're just looking for the best value brand right now, AMD is the way to go, even if you are gaming. The 10900k is better than the 3900x for gaming, but its also a ~$120 up-sell: At similar pricing tiers, the single-thread performance difference is likely quite similar. But if you just want the best at any price, that's still Intel: More cores won't save every workload. [1] https://www.pcworld.com/article/3543993/intel-10th-gen-review-core-i9-10900k.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/3543993/intel-10th-gen-revie...
- fermienrico 6y agoThe whole situation boils down to price. AMD is a better value given the price. If Intel wants, they can just cut and match the prices. Why is there so much callous fanboyism around/against a goddamn CPU supplier like they’re a statement of their lifestyle or such? Its ok to do due diligence before purchasing but relentless obsession over my red team is better than your blue team screams of immaturity. Same with the people that endlessly pixel peep and read MTF charts for days in photography. They spend more time talking about how great their camera and lens setup is than actually going out and taking pictures with it.
- xattt 6y agoIt is a hobby in itself. It’s irritating to others because the true hobby is hidden under the guise of another hobby. The irritation comes from a mismatch of expectations around the end goal between those who are fanboys and those who just want to get stuff done.
- ponker 6y agoAs a film camera guy, I can say that I am unashamedly more of a camera hobbyist than a photography hobbyist. I mostly take pictures to keep the mechanisms operational.
- paulpan 6y agoTraditionally Intel's "nm" measurements have always deviated a bit from their competitors, ala TSMC and Samsung. In short Intel 10nm ~ TSMC 7nm and Intel 7nm ~ TSMC 5nm. But with the recent announcement that the 7nm will be delayed, it means TSMC will for sure take the node crown. https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/7_nm_lithography_process https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/7_nm_lithography_process I think the most notable is part is that Tiger Lake will be a minimal CPU improvement (Sunny Cove ~ Willow Cove cores), and the main selling point will be the Xe graphics and support for Thunderbolt 4, LPDDR5, etc. Superfin seems to be marketing hype but will see when benchmarks come out. The main question is, will Tiger Lake will enough for next year? AMD's Renoir follow up is reportedly retaining the Vega graphics but will further improve the CPU microarchitecture from Zen2 to Zen3. Techspot just published an apples-to-apples comparison that shows, if all things equal except the CPU, the AMD 4800H is 10-60% faster than the i7 10750H...that's a huge chasm. https://www.techspot.com/review/2075-same-laptop-different-cpu-productivity/ https://www.techspot.com/review/2075-same-laptop-different-c...
- IanCutress 6y ago>'Superfin seems to be marketing hype' Superfin is the main reason why Tiger Lake is getting a 10-20% frequency boost over Ice Lake. That SuperMIM cap isn't just for show.
- paulpan 6y agoOh snap you're Ian Cutress from Anandtech! Point taken, mine is that SuperFin isn't some node improvement so TBD on what performance gains it accounts for.