6 ms·

‘AeroNabs’ – Inhalable Protection Against Covid-19

160 points by cmlars 6y ago

o_____________o 6y ago
Anyone know about potential human immune responses to these?
- craftinator 6y ago
  That was my first thought as well, followed closely by "I wonder which interesting new cancer these might cause". Gotta love biomed.
mc32 6y ago
Looks interesting but so far only talks about using it as prophylactic via inhalation; however the virus is known to enter via mouth, eyes and anus as well (breaks in skin probably). Even so inhalation and touching to mouth are likely the most common vectors of infection, so seems promising.
- sjg007 6y ago
  Yes but I think inhalation is the deadliest route. I could be wrong though.
- elil17 6y ago
  It doesn’t have to be 100% effective for it to end the pandemic - it just has to be effective enough that it blocks most transmissions and gets the viruses reproduction rate under 1.
  - shadowgovt 6y ago
    Well at the same time proving to not have any side effects, such as passage into the bloodstream followed by formation of molecules that the liver cannot break down and the kidneys cannot flush. It's promising early research, but it's not even in laboratory animal trials yet.
  - usrusr 6y ago
    Even if it worked exactly as advertised, how could permanently chuffing the Llama oil vape be more practical than masks? PS: again if it worked exactly as advertised, could it be a tool to stifle incubation after a know exposure?
- dghughes 6y ago
  It isn't the same thing (I hope!) but it reminds me of McIntyre Powder. Miners were told by their company to use a fine aluminum/aluminium dust they breathed in before going to work in a mine. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31532354/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31532354/ "McIntyre Powder (MP) is a finely ground aluminum powder that was used between 1943 and 1979 as a prophylaxis for silicosis. Silicosis is a chronic lung disease caused by the inhalation of crystalline silica dust and was prevalent in the Canadian mining industry during this time period."
  - 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
    ...and in case you were wondering just how bad an idea this was, it's been conclusively linked to Parkinson's: https://parkinsonsnewstoday.com/2020/05/14/parkinsons-linked-to-mcintyre-powder-used-in-mining/ https://parkinsonsnewstoday.com/2020/05/14/parkinsons-linked...
- learc83 6y ago
  The virus is "known to enter" via the anus? That might be hypothesized by someone, but I haven't heard of any documented cases of anal transmission. Have you?
  - mc32 6y ago
    Here is one report[1] although this one is contracting it from the anus. Early in the pandemic I read about acquiring via the anus, but not sure if that was confirmed. [1] https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/02/studies-show-covid-19-virus-likely-has-multiple-infection-routes https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/02/studies-...
    - groby_b 6y ago
      That's not what that report says. At all. "Chinese scientists report evidence of an oral-fecal transmission route for COVID-19 viruses and show that, in hospitalized patients, viral RNA was found in anal swabs and in blood samples." I.e. you find RNA in anal swabs & blood. It leaves your body that way. Which is a well-known fact, and might be very useful in population-level surveillance. It also means you should put the lid down before flushing, lest you create something lovingly known as a "toiled plume". It does not mean you get infected via the anus.
prepend 6y ago
“Llama inspired design” is quite amazing for being a conscious design choice. It does look like a llama, but is that a good thing? Are llamas in the UX toolkit as an animal that is both semi-exotic yet familiar enough to elicit positive reactions. I encountered a bunch on Peru trails and they were pretty ornery (compared to yaks or sheep) and the 30 or so different Quechua locals I talked with said they were pretty bad as pack animals. So they seemed pretty normal to me and not really some cool animal.
- grenoire 6y ago
  I don't know if you read the sentence following that, but it's not about the apparatus itself: "...inspired by nanobodies, antibody-like immune proteins that naturally occur in llamas, camels and related animals."
- hoseja 6y ago
  Huh? They are not talking about some sort of aesthetic design. Llamas' immune systems use these short protein antibodies, which seemingly proved useful when artificially modified to block the virus. Nothing to do with branding.
- jlengrand 6y ago
  Is that a joke? The whole article is about proteins that can be found in llamas, nothing else. You did give me a good laugh though.
- jmvoodoo 6y ago
  This almost seems like someone testing a gpt-3 bot on HN...
- HumblyTossed 6y ago
  This has to be a bot, right?
  - prepend 6y ago
    Not a bot, I think the inhaler looks like a llama and that’s what I meant.
eigenvalue 6y ago
Won't this take too long to run human trials on for safety/efficacy for it to really matter? My understanding is that a vaccine will likely come out within 6 months or so. They mention that it's an older compound, but sounds like they made some novel changes to it. Since this situation is so much a race against time, we are probably better off focusing on older, better-understood compounds that don't need to be tested for as long.
- beervirus 6y ago
  A vaccine would be great, but it’s far from certain we’ll have one in 6 months. It makes sense to keep pursuing multiple lines of research.
- gregwebs 6y ago
  A great vaccine still won't work for everyone. The biggest group being those whose immune systems are not functioning well, which depending on the vaccine could include a large chunk of the elderly most at risk.
- klenwell 6y ago
  They offer it as a stopgap, which, I agree with you, seems improbable given the latest reports on vaccines: Used once a day, AeroNabs could provide powerful, reliable protection against SARS-CoV-2 until a vaccine becomes available. But maybe that's a signal that these researchers believe much of the vaccine news has been overly optimistic hype. I guess the race is on. One question I don't think the article addressed: if successful, would this have applications beyond Covid-19? Like against the common cold?
- djsumdog 6y ago
  It's very unlikely a safe vaccine will come out six months from now. It's even more insane to think most people around the world will allow themselves to be injected with something developed in less than a year. Effective treatment will be much more likely to hit the market than a vaccine.
fabian2k 6y ago
It's really annoying that press releases tend to overhype research so much. As far as I understand from skimming the paper, they created a synthetic antibody against the Spike protein of SARS-CoV2 that binds very tightly. There is no clinical data in the paper, they measured how tightly the nanobody they designed binds to the Spike protein and they did some neutralization assays against SARS-CoV2. The advantages of the nanobodies compared to full antibodies sound interesting, for sure. But this is still a paper pretty solidly in the basic research area, and quite far from clinical use. I found an article about this research that puts it into a bit more context: https://www.statnews.com/2020/08/11/scientists-create-potent-anti-coronavirus-nanobody-inspired-by-llamas/ https://www.statnews.com/2020/08/11/scientists-create-potent... > While the lab results look promising, experts in the field advise caution because important work has not been done to test the compound in animals. “The critical thing is animal data. We’ve found things that are very potent in vitro that do nothing in vivo,” said Dimiter Stanchev Dimitrov, a professor of medicine who directs the Center for Antibody Therapeutics at the University of Pittsburgh and has created antibody-based therapeutics for numerous viruses including SARS and MERS, two other coronaviruses. He said it can take months to collect the needed data in animals. “Once these are tested in animal models, then I can get excited.”
- Kwantuum 6y ago
  Since you seem well informed: does the research mention anything about use as an aerosol and why that might be considered before internal use?
  - fabian2k 6y ago
    They wrote that regular antibodies have to be given intravenuously. These nanobodies are smaller and more stable, so they argue that it is possible to use them as aerosol. The idea seems to be to use them as prevention, which would not be feasible if you have to inject them. I can't really judge whether that approach makes sense, my experience is in the basic research area, not with clinical stuff.
    - Kwantuum 6y ago
btbuildem 6y ago
They should market this to the rich and the selfish, then watch and see if it causes any horrible side effects,
michieldotv 6y ago
As far as I know, there's only one nanobody-based drug on the market today, caplacizumab, and it isn't administered through aerosols, but rather subcutaneously. I know Ablynx was working on an inhaled one as a treatment for RSV, but I don't think it made it to the market (yet). This noveldelivery method probably needs lots of scrutiny from regulators before it can enter the market.
xmjw 6y ago
Anyone remember the Benzites from Star Trek TNG? I guess we know what that gas they breathe in is for...
- learc83 6y ago
  I know that this is a joke, but the gas they breath is supposed to be chlorine, moisture, and mineral salts to replicate their home world's atmosphere.
djaque 6y ago
That's really exciting. It reminds me of PrEP which is a pill you take that can prevent you from contracting HIV with like 99% success rate. It's really a game changer since there isn't an HIV vaccine. I also don't want to get my hopes up since research like this is bound to be overhyped. I want to see where it goes like a month or two from now.
smiley1437 6y ago
Oh great... "Hey why aren't you wearing a mask?" "No worries I'm using inhalable protection" rolls eyes
- EricE 6y ago
  Speaking of eyes I wonder if you can "inhale" it into your eyes too. Viruses can enter the body more than just orally and even though we think it's primarily through the respiratory system, we aren't sure yet. Even having expressed doubt, something is better than nothing. And if it eliminates requiring face masks it would be worth it alone for that.
  - smiley1437 6y ago
    I’m guessing any mucous membrane (eyes, mouth, nasal passages and I swear some other posts here said anus) is a risk but apparently lung cells are the most vulnerable
dekhn 6y ago
UCSF is my alma mater but this wave of press about aeronabs is just ridiculous. This is research lab level work, far from the clinic. It should not even have been announced via PR, just publications.
- trixie_ 6y ago
  It feels like a large amount of that research went into creating a marketable product name.

160 points by cmlars 6y ago

o_____________o 6y ago

Anyone know about potential human immune responses to these?

craftinator 6y ago
That was my first thought as well, followed closely by "I wonder which interesting new cancer these might cause". Gotta love biomed.

mc32 6y ago

Looks interesting but so far only talks about using it as prophylactic via inhalation; however the virus is known to enter via mouth, eyes and anus as well (breaks in skin probably). Even so inhalation and touching to mouth are likely the most common vectors of infection, so seems promising.

sjg007 6y ago
Yes but I think inhalation is the deadliest route. I could be wrong though.
elil17 6y ago
It doesn’t have to be 100% effective for it to end the pandemic - it just has to be effective enough that it blocks most transmissions and gets the viruses reproduction rate under 1.
- shadowgovt 6y ago
  Well at the same time proving to not have any side effects, such as passage into the bloodstream followed by formation of molecules that the liver cannot break down and the kidneys cannot flush. It's promising early research, but it's not even in laboratory animal trials yet.
- usrusr 6y ago
  Even if it worked exactly as advertised, how could permanently chuffing the Llama oil vape be more practical than masks? PS: again if it worked exactly as advertised, could it be a tool to stifle incubation after a know exposure?
dghughes 6y ago
It isn't the same thing (I hope!) but it reminds me of McIntyre Powder. Miners were told by their company to use a fine aluminum/aluminium dust they breathed in before going to work in a mine. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31532354/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31532354/ "McIntyre Powder (MP) is a finely ground aluminum powder that was used between 1943 and 1979 as a prophylaxis for silicosis. Silicosis is a chronic lung disease caused by the inhalation of crystalline silica dust and was prevalent in the Canadian mining industry during this time period."
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
  ...and in case you were wondering just how bad an idea this was, it's been conclusively linked to Parkinson's: https://parkinsonsnewstoday.com/2020/05/14/parkinsons-linked-to-mcintyre-powder-used-in-mining/ https://parkinsonsnewstoday.com/2020/05/14/parkinsons-linked...
learc83 6y ago
The virus is "known to enter" via the anus? That might be hypothesized by someone, but I haven't heard of any documented cases of anal transmission. Have you?
- mc32 6y ago
  Here is one report[1] although this one is contracting it from the anus. Early in the pandemic I read about acquiring via the anus, but not sure if that was confirmed. [1] https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/02/studies-show-covid-19-virus-likely-has-multiple-infection-routes https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/02/studies-...
  - groby_b 6y ago
    That's not what that report says. At all. "Chinese scientists report evidence of an oral-fecal transmission route for COVID-19 viruses and show that, in hospitalized patients, viral RNA was found in anal swabs and in blood samples." I.e. you find RNA in anal swabs & blood. It leaves your body that way. Which is a well-known fact, and might be very useful in population-level surveillance. It also means you should put the lid down before flushing, lest you create something lovingly known as a "toiled plume". It does not mean you get infected via the anus.

prepend 6y ago

“Llama inspired design” is quite amazing for being a conscious design choice. It does look like a llama, but is that a good thing? Are llamas in the UX toolkit as an animal that is both semi-exotic yet familiar enough to elicit positive reactions. I encountered a bunch on Peru trails and they were pretty ornery (compared to yaks or sheep) and the 30 or so different Quechua locals I talked with said they were pretty bad as pack animals. So they seemed pretty normal to me and not really some cool animal.

grenoire 6y ago
I don't know if you read the sentence following that, but it's not about the apparatus itself: "...inspired by nanobodies, antibody-like immune proteins that naturally occur in llamas, camels and related animals."
hoseja 6y ago
Huh? They are not talking about some sort of aesthetic design. Llamas' immune systems use these short protein antibodies, which seemingly proved useful when artificially modified to block the virus. Nothing to do with branding.
jlengrand 6y ago
Is that a joke? The whole article is about proteins that can be found in llamas, nothing else. You did give me a good laugh though.
jmvoodoo 6y ago
This almost seems like someone testing a gpt-3 bot on HN...
HumblyTossed 6y ago
This has to be a bot, right?
- prepend 6y ago
  Not a bot, I think the inhaler looks like a llama and that’s what I meant.

eigenvalue 6y ago

Won't this take too long to run human trials on for safety/efficacy for it to really matter? My understanding is that a vaccine will likely come out within 6 months or so. They mention that it's an older compound, but sounds like they made some novel changes to it. Since this situation is so much a race against time, we are probably better off focusing on older, better-understood compounds that don't need to be tested for as long.

beervirus 6y ago
A vaccine would be great, but it’s far from certain we’ll have one in 6 months. It makes sense to keep pursuing multiple lines of research.
gregwebs 6y ago
A great vaccine still won't work for everyone. The biggest group being those whose immune systems are not functioning well, which depending on the vaccine could include a large chunk of the elderly most at risk.
klenwell 6y ago
They offer it as a stopgap, which, I agree with you, seems improbable given the latest reports on vaccines: Used once a day, AeroNabs could provide powerful, reliable protection against SARS-CoV-2 until a vaccine becomes available. But maybe that's a signal that these researchers believe much of the vaccine news has been overly optimistic hype. I guess the race is on. One question I don't think the article addressed: if successful, would this have applications beyond Covid-19? Like against the common cold?
djsumdog 6y ago
It's very unlikely a safe vaccine will come out six months from now. It's even more insane to think most people around the world will allow themselves to be injected with something developed in less than a year. Effective treatment will be much more likely to hit the market than a vaccine.

fabian2k 6y ago

It's really annoying that press releases tend to overhype research so much. As far as I understand from skimming the paper, they created a synthetic antibody against the Spike protein of SARS-CoV2 that binds very tightly. There is no clinical data in the paper, they measured how tightly the nanobody they designed binds to the Spike protein and they did some neutralization assays against SARS-CoV2. The advantages of the nanobodies compared to full antibodies sound interesting, for sure. But this is still a paper pretty solidly in the basic research area, and quite far from clinical use. I found an article about this research that puts it into a bit more context: https://www.statnews.com/2020/08/11/scientists-create-potent-anti-coronavirus-nanobody-inspired-by-llamas/ https://www.statnews.com/2020/08/11/scientists-create-potent... > While the lab results look promising, experts in the field advise caution because important work has not been done to test the compound in animals. “The critical thing is animal data. We’ve found things that are very potent in vitro that do nothing in vivo,” said Dimiter Stanchev Dimitrov, a professor of medicine who directs the Center for Antibody Therapeutics at the University of Pittsburgh and has created antibody-based therapeutics for numerous viruses including SARS and MERS, two other coronaviruses. He said it can take months to collect the needed data in animals. “Once these are tested in animal models, then I can get excited.”

Kwantuum 6y ago
Since you seem well informed: does the research mention anything about use as an aerosol and why that might be considered before internal use?
- fabian2k 6y ago
  They wrote that regular antibodies have to be given intravenuously. These nanobodies are smaller and more stable, so they argue that it is possible to use them as aerosol. The idea seems to be to use them as prevention, which would not be feasible if you have to inject them. I can't really judge whether that approach makes sense, my experience is in the basic research area, not with clinical stuff.
  - Kwantuum 6y ago

btbuildem 6y ago

They should market this to the rich and the selfish, then watch and see if it causes any horrible side effects,

michieldotv 6y ago

As far as I know, there's only one nanobody-based drug on the market today, caplacizumab, and it isn't administered through aerosols, but rather subcutaneously. I know Ablynx was working on an inhaled one as a treatment for RSV, but I don't think it made it to the market (yet). This noveldelivery method probably needs lots of scrutiny from regulators before it can enter the market.

xmjw 6y ago

Anyone remember the Benzites from Star Trek TNG? I guess we know what that gas they breathe in is for...

learc83 6y ago
I know that this is a joke, but the gas they breath is supposed to be chlorine, moisture, and mineral salts to replicate their home world's atmosphere.

djaque 6y ago

That's really exciting. It reminds me of PrEP which is a pill you take that can prevent you from contracting HIV with like 99% success rate. It's really a game changer since there isn't an HIV vaccine. I also don't want to get my hopes up since research like this is bound to be overhyped. I want to see where it goes like a month or two from now.

smiley1437 6y ago

Oh great... "Hey why aren't you wearing a mask?" "No worries I'm using inhalable protection" rolls eyes

EricE 6y ago
Speaking of eyes I wonder if you can "inhale" it into your eyes too. Viruses can enter the body more than just orally and even though we think it's primarily through the respiratory system, we aren't sure yet. Even having expressed doubt, something is better than nothing. And if it eliminates requiring face masks it would be worth it alone for that.
- smiley1437 6y ago
  I’m guessing any mucous membrane (eyes, mouth, nasal passages and I swear some other posts here said anus) is a risk but apparently lung cells are the most vulnerable

dekhn 6y ago

UCSF is my alma mater but this wave of press about aeronabs is just ridiculous. This is research lab level work, far from the clinic. It should not even have been announced via PR, just publications.

trixie_ 6y ago
It feels like a large amount of that research went into creating a marketable product name.