5 ms·

Ain't the software; it's the peopleware. > But there are a lot of them and they all have the vote, waiting to be pushed as useful idiots to some higher goal. P

Ain't the software; it's the peopleware. > But there are a lot of them and they all have the vote, waiting to be pushed as useful idiots to some higher goal. Politicians have started to realize that they don’t actually need to get a real mandate, and that they won’t be held accountable for lying. At that level, every time someone lies more people become susceptible to being pulled in to this web of deception. One viable thing to do is redistribute political power instead of wealth. The act of trying to centralize everything into a legacy, monolithic, waterfall, big iron system results in a Tower of Babel. Its proponents swear it's Progress. Return to the enumerated powers on the Constitution, and refactor all this Progressive cruft to the State level, where voters can either be wise or spendthrift at their leisure. Doubtless we'll prefer a more catastrophic collapse, but dreaming is still occasionally legal.

ISL 6y ago
Some level of coordinated collective action is required. It is clear that our local choices have global impact. The trick is finding mutually beneficial and agreed-upon strategies for getting along with one another. Much of the trouble in the United States can be traced to Congress abdicating its responsibilities (under presidents of both parties). As voters, we are responsible for that failure. November is coming soon; it is an opportunity to choose those representatives who will choose the right thing over the expedient thing when the choice is required.
- smitty1e 6y ago
  I used to think that the fact that the HoR size has held constant since 1910 (!) was among the major problems. 2020 saw a week where: - POTUS couldn't remove the unconstitutional act of a predecessor, that should have been a Congressional job at all points - SCOTUS rewrote the Civil Rights Act of 1964, that should have been a Congressional job at all points - Congress blew fat piles of cash on COVID-19 but did precious little else of which I'm aware I submit that a https://conventionofstates.com/ https://conventionofstates.com/ is overdue.
  - paulryanrogers 6y ago
    What was it that POTUS could not undo and that SCOTUS did?
    - smitty1e 6y ago
      DACA, whether you think it was a great idea or not.
joe_the_user 6y ago
Ain't the software; it's the peopleware. What does that mean? One viable thing to do is redistribute political power instead of wealth No, that's clearly not viable. The US is still "really" a democracy in the sense those who get the most legal votes really do win - real, fair elections right now, are a big factor in the distribution of power in the US, for democratic-ness on a world-scale, that's pretty good. Yet the extremely unequal distribution of wealth makes a mockery of the realness of voting's impact. Most people are effectively powerless to make an impact on much outside their immediate lives. Return to the enumerated powers on the Constitution, and refactor all this Progressive cruft to the State level This is an extreme reactionary viewpoint, taken from the 3-percenters or similar outfit.
- cortesoft 6y ago
  This is why I get frustrated when people try to say “the system is broken, we should have a revolution!” To have a successful revolution, you need to convince a lot of people that your cause is just, and worth dying for... if we can’t even convince people to VOTE for the right people/things, how can we possibly convince them to have a revolution? You don’t think that the people who manipulate the populous to win elections couldn’t do the same thing to stop a revolution?
  - lovelyviking 6y ago
    You can't manipulate populous forever. At some point they rise and protest. Look at Belarus right now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnWeIdPhgRs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnWeIdPhgRs
    - cortesoft 6y ago
      Sure, but all we have to do to throw off our oppressors is vote.... if we can do that, we wouldn't need anything else.
- shaftoe 6y ago
  "Most people are effectively powerless to make an impact on much outside their immediate lives." Isn't this a good thing? Doesn't it mean that they can't harm others?
elliekelly 6y ago
What is the difference between wealth and political power? In the US at least it seems they’re one and the same.
intended 6y ago
While I agree that there is a people ware problem, 1) We can do both - more equitable and productive distribution of wealth and self determination 2) Technology has created a new set of problems, at the intersection of human cognitive/mental limits, which the term "peopleware" tends to shrug off; the impression is that its more a people/social issue not a tech one. An example, mentioned in the article was when people see 1000s of conspiracists on a forum and the hardcoding in our brains translates it as sign of trust worthiness. Even though a majority of people would call it crazy.
nkohari 6y ago
Localities -- and borders in general -- are less and less relevant as the internet (and technology generally) makes the world smaller. Strict federalist separation made sense in a world where it took days to travel across state lines, but the modern world requires that nations have a strong central government. Some things can only be done at the federal level (issuing currency, foreign relations, military/defense actions, etc.) and some laws (such as civil rights) should be universal and not subject to local interference. It's true that we as a nation focus far too much on national politics, to the detriment of local issues which impact us personally much more. I'd argue that's not a problem with which governments hold the power, it's a problem with how the populace participates in politics. Not only that, but quite frankly the manner in which we currently elect state governments is a mess. I live in North Carolina, the most gerrymandered state in the Union. In 2018 we literally voted using a map that was declared unconstitutional because there wasn't enough time to redraw it before the election. [0] Until this issue is overcome, it's tough for me to get excited about giving the states more power, and it took a panel of federal judges to declare the state's map illegal. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/04/us/court-north-carolina-gerrymandering.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/04/us/court-north-carolina-g...
- smitty1e 6y ago
  Oh, there is plenty of time to redraw maps. The drawing of the maps can be reduced to algorithms and automated. The bun fight is not a time-centric problem. Rather, a political one: a tyranny of the minority.
op03 6y ago
The problem is really about a group within all populations that is never satisfied with what power they have. You decentralize they centralize. Goes round and round. They are useful in certain situations and useless in others. With time society understands those differences and gets better at deploying its different resources.
dillondoyle 6y ago
What 'progressive cruft' would you like to refactor to the state level? Healthcare? Defense? Medical and scientific research? SNAP and (albeit small/not enough) education funding? What about banking regulation, regulating privacy and tech? What happens when those, by your insinuation, 'unwise' states like California and New York are the only states that can afford anything? I would add it's my opinion these liberal local govs are the only ones willing to vote in their own best interest - e.g. education - but i'm sure we won't agree there on the fundamental premise. Most of the conservative states rely on money from more populous states to even feed their people. The Republican Speaker is insanely hypocritical here in current stimulus negotiations as Kentucky is the second most dependent on Federal funding. e.g. they are 2nd to last in taking more money in from other states than they give back. Plus State and local governance already has an outsized influence on people's lives (even many conservatives would agree more than Fed Gov) and local government seems even more affected by unequal political power and wealth. Just look at all the Q anon and other crazy city council and school board zealots elected all over the place (which sadly has now made it's way into Congress)
- brighton36 6y ago
  I'm starting to think a lot of schemes at the federal level (patent, copyright, securities law, trademark, etc) are robbing these conservative states of opportunity. In the op's proposed system, it's probable that wealth can be generated through better competition in these regulatory systems.
  - dillondoyle 6y ago
    I think I'm down with some changes in those regs, especially for me securities, but I don't know how you could do that on a state by state basis though. How could apple handle different patent rules from each state and then litigate on each of them etc

ISL 6y ago

Some level of coordinated collective action is required. It is clear that our local choices have global impact. The trick is finding mutually beneficial and agreed-upon strategies for getting along with one another. Much of the trouble in the United States can be traced to Congress abdicating its responsibilities (under presidents of both parties). As voters, we are responsible for that failure. November is coming soon; it is an opportunity to choose those representatives who will choose the right thing over the expedient thing when the choice is required.

smitty1e 6y ago
I used to think that the fact that the HoR size has held constant since 1910 (!) was among the major problems. 2020 saw a week where: - POTUS couldn't remove the unconstitutional act of a predecessor, that should have been a Congressional job at all points - SCOTUS rewrote the Civil Rights Act of 1964, that should have been a Congressional job at all points - Congress blew fat piles of cash on COVID-19 but did precious little else of which I'm aware I submit that a https://conventionofstates.com/ https://conventionofstates.com/ is overdue.
- paulryanrogers 6y ago
  What was it that POTUS could not undo and that SCOTUS did?
  - smitty1e 6y ago
    DACA, whether you think it was a great idea or not.

joe_the_user 6y ago

Ain't the software; it's the peopleware. What does that mean? One viable thing to do is redistribute political power instead of wealth No, that's clearly not viable. The US is still "really" a democracy in the sense those who get the most legal votes really do win - real, fair elections right now, are a big factor in the distribution of power in the US, for democratic-ness on a world-scale, that's pretty good. Yet the extremely unequal distribution of wealth makes a mockery of the realness of voting's impact. Most people are effectively powerless to make an impact on much outside their immediate lives. Return to the enumerated powers on the Constitution, and refactor all this Progressive cruft to the State level This is an extreme reactionary viewpoint, taken from the 3-percenters or similar outfit.

cortesoft 6y ago
This is why I get frustrated when people try to say “the system is broken, we should have a revolution!” To have a successful revolution, you need to convince a lot of people that your cause is just, and worth dying for... if we can’t even convince people to VOTE for the right people/things, how can we possibly convince them to have a revolution? You don’t think that the people who manipulate the populous to win elections couldn’t do the same thing to stop a revolution?
- lovelyviking 6y ago
  You can't manipulate populous forever. At some point they rise and protest. Look at Belarus right now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnWeIdPhgRs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnWeIdPhgRs
  - cortesoft 6y ago
    Sure, but all we have to do to throw off our oppressors is vote.... if we can do that, we wouldn't need anything else.
shaftoe 6y ago
"Most people are effectively powerless to make an impact on much outside their immediate lives." Isn't this a good thing? Doesn't it mean that they can't harm others?

elliekelly 6y ago

What is the difference between wealth and political power? In the US at least it seems they’re one and the same.

intended 6y ago

While I agree that there is a people ware problem, 1) We can do both - more equitable and productive distribution of wealth and self determination 2) Technology has created a new set of problems, at the intersection of human cognitive/mental limits, which the term "peopleware" tends to shrug off; the impression is that its more a people/social issue not a tech one. An example, mentioned in the article was when people see 1000s of conspiracists on a forum and the hardcoding in our brains translates it as sign of trust worthiness. Even though a majority of people would call it crazy.

nkohari 6y ago

Localities -- and borders in general -- are less and less relevant as the internet (and technology generally) makes the world smaller. Strict federalist separation made sense in a world where it took days to travel across state lines, but the modern world requires that nations have a strong central government. Some things can only be done at the federal level (issuing currency, foreign relations, military/defense actions, etc.) and some laws (such as civil rights) should be universal and not subject to local interference. It's true that we as a nation focus far too much on national politics, to the detriment of local issues which impact us personally much more. I'd argue that's not a problem with which governments hold the power, it's a problem with how the populace participates in politics. Not only that, but quite frankly the manner in which we currently elect state governments is a mess. I live in North Carolina, the most gerrymandered state in the Union. In 2018 we literally voted using a map that was declared unconstitutional because there wasn't enough time to redraw it before the election. [0] Until this issue is overcome, it's tough for me to get excited about giving the states more power, and it took a panel of federal judges to declare the state's map illegal. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/04/us/court-north-carolina-gerrymandering.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/04/us/court-north-carolina-g...

smitty1e 6y ago
Oh, there is plenty of time to redraw maps. The drawing of the maps can be reduced to algorithms and automated. The bun fight is not a time-centric problem. Rather, a political one: a tyranny of the minority.

op03 6y ago

The problem is really about a group within all populations that is never satisfied with what power they have. You decentralize they centralize. Goes round and round. They are useful in certain situations and useless in others. With time society understands those differences and gets better at deploying its different resources.

dillondoyle 6y ago

What 'progressive cruft' would you like to refactor to the state level? Healthcare? Defense? Medical and scientific research? SNAP and (albeit small/not enough) education funding? What about banking regulation, regulating privacy and tech? What happens when those, by your insinuation, 'unwise' states like California and New York are the only states that can afford anything? I would add it's my opinion these liberal local govs are the only ones willing to vote in their own best interest - e.g. education - but i'm sure we won't agree there on the fundamental premise. Most of the conservative states rely on money from more populous states to even feed their people. The Republican Speaker is insanely hypocritical here in current stimulus negotiations as Kentucky is the second most dependent on Federal funding. e.g. they are 2nd to last in taking more money in from other states than they give back. Plus State and local governance already has an outsized influence on people's lives (even many conservatives would agree more than Fed Gov) and local government seems even more affected by unequal political power and wealth. Just look at all the Q anon and other crazy city council and school board zealots elected all over the place (which sadly has now made it's way into Congress)

brighton36 6y ago
I'm starting to think a lot of schemes at the federal level (patent, copyright, securities law, trademark, etc) are robbing these conservative states of opportunity. In the op's proposed system, it's probable that wealth can be generated through better competition in these regulatory systems.
- dillondoyle 6y ago
  I think I'm down with some changes in those regs, especially for me securities, but I don't know how you could do that on a state by state basis though. How could apple handle different patent rules from each state and then litigate on each of them etc