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This is good for silicon engineers and tech industry in general. This will make the entire sector more competitive. Unfortunately HN can't see that and would ra

This is good for silicon engineers and tech industry in general. This will make the entire sector more competitive. Unfortunately HN can't see that and would rather have silicon engineers be paid lower wages than to have them go to China. When workers fall for nationalistic rhetoric in the media it's the workers that suffer.

jszymborski 6y ago
No, I think HN would rather see TSMC offer higher salaries and that the worlds largest authoritarian gov't not advance its agenda for tech dominance.
- tehjoker 6y ago
  Disagree. I believe what they are after is "tech independence" not tech dominance. They are afraid America will cut them off. Honestly, it's probably a very interesting opportunity for hardware engineers. It's not super often that an entirely new fab, architecture, and industry are set up from scratch. It might be a way to get out from under various legacy assumptions and try something new.
  - caycep 6y ago
    Well, it is a stated CCP goal for "AI dominance", at least. And money designated for such likely will filter through these state-sponsored companies..
    - tehjoker 6y ago
      Dominance in a specialized field like that, I can buy. AI is important, but it's also under-delivering on the hype (though what it has delivered is impressive).
    - jameslin 6y ago
      Who stated it is CCP goal for "AI dominance"? Western media? Sure everyone want to be at the top of the food chain, but calling it dominance is just pure scaremongering.
      - DetroitThrow 6y ago
        >Who stated it is CCP goal for "AI dominance"? Western media? After a moment of Googling I found the answer, I don't think HN really benefits from presumptuous statements against a poster - presume good faith. >Sure everyone want to be at the top of the food chain, but calling it dominance is just pure scaremongering. "Market-Dominance" is a current tenet of PRC AI strategy, or at least in the words of a document published by the PRC detailing the country's AI strategy. Sources: (ctrl-f dominant) https://www.newamerica.org/cybersecurity-initiative/digichina/blog/full-translation-chinas-new-generation-artificial-intelligence-development-plan-2017/ https://www.newamerica.org/cybersecurity-initiative/digichin... http://www.cittadellascienza.it/cina/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/IoT-ONE-Made-in-China-2025.pdf http://www.cittadellascienza.it/cina/wp-content/uploads/2017....
        yorwba 6y ago
        > (ctrl-f dominant) First link: Two hits: "Market-Dominant" and "the dominant role of the market in allocating resources". The second one is obviously about being dominated by the market, not dominating it... and the first one as well: "Follow the rules of the market, remain oriented toward application, ..." It's about investing in AI technologies that already have some success in the market rather than pie-in-the-sky projects without application potential. Bonus: ctrl-f "dominate": "dominated by the market" Second link: Two hits, "give markets the decisive role in allocating resources, strengthen the dominant position of enterprises," and "Strengthen the dominant position of enterprises in the market". While that may sound like the government picking winners, within the context of market reform in China it actually refers to strengthening the position of enterprises as opposed to the government. Repeating this slogan ("强化企业主体地位") signals that the government does not intend to return to a command economy (where the government was in the "dominant position") even when it comes to funding strategic development projects. Googling for policy documents and then ctrl-f'ing for keywords is a good first step, so props to you for doing your own research, but it doesn't help much if you lack the background knowledge to interpret what you find.
    - coliveira 6y ago
      It is a competition, so everyone wants to be a winner. I have never found a real competitor that is avoiding to be leader of the competition.
- haecceity 6y ago
  Every competitor aims for dominance. Engineers should be paid more, telling them not to accept money from firms from authoritarian governments is laughable. You should be encouraging western firms to be competitive not blaming China for being authoritatian or seeking dominance. I suppose it's easier to blame others than encourage western firms to improve though. So much for democracy.

jszymborski 6y ago

No, I think HN would rather see TSMC offer higher salaries and that the worlds largest authoritarian gov't not advance its agenda for tech dominance.

tehjoker 6y ago
Disagree. I believe what they are after is "tech independence" not tech dominance. They are afraid America will cut them off. Honestly, it's probably a very interesting opportunity for hardware engineers. It's not super often that an entirely new fab, architecture, and industry are set up from scratch. It might be a way to get out from under various legacy assumptions and try something new.
- caycep 6y ago
  Well, it is a stated CCP goal for "AI dominance", at least. And money designated for such likely will filter through these state-sponsored companies..
  - tehjoker 6y ago
    Dominance in a specialized field like that, I can buy. AI is important, but it's also under-delivering on the hype (though what it has delivered is impressive).
  - jameslin 6y ago
    Who stated it is CCP goal for "AI dominance"? Western media? Sure everyone want to be at the top of the food chain, but calling it dominance is just pure scaremongering.
    - DetroitThrow 6y ago
      >Who stated it is CCP goal for "AI dominance"? Western media? After a moment of Googling I found the answer, I don't think HN really benefits from presumptuous statements against a poster - presume good faith. >Sure everyone want to be at the top of the food chain, but calling it dominance is just pure scaremongering. "Market-Dominance" is a current tenet of PRC AI strategy, or at least in the words of a document published by the PRC detailing the country's AI strategy. Sources: (ctrl-f dominant) https://www.newamerica.org/cybersecurity-initiative/digichina/blog/full-translation-chinas-new-generation-artificial-intelligence-development-plan-2017/ https://www.newamerica.org/cybersecurity-initiative/digichin... http://www.cittadellascienza.it/cina/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/IoT-ONE-Made-in-China-2025.pdf http://www.cittadellascienza.it/cina/wp-content/uploads/2017....
      - yorwba 6y ago
        > (ctrl-f dominant) First link: Two hits: "Market-Dominant" and "the dominant role of the market in allocating resources". The second one is obviously about being dominated by the market, not dominating it... and the first one as well: "Follow the rules of the market, remain oriented toward application, ..." It's about investing in AI technologies that already have some success in the market rather than pie-in-the-sky projects without application potential. Bonus: ctrl-f "dominate": "dominated by the market" Second link: Two hits, "give markets the decisive role in allocating resources, strengthen the dominant position of enterprises," and "Strengthen the dominant position of enterprises in the market". While that may sound like the government picking winners, within the context of market reform in China it actually refers to strengthening the position of enterprises as opposed to the government. Repeating this slogan ("强化企业主体地位") signals that the government does not intend to return to a command economy (where the government was in the "dominant position") even when it comes to funding strategic development projects. Googling for policy documents and then ctrl-f'ing for keywords is a good first step, so props to you for doing your own research, but it doesn't help much if you lack the background knowledge to interpret what you find.
  - coliveira 6y ago
    It is a competition, so everyone wants to be a winner. I have never found a real competitor that is avoiding to be leader of the competition.
haecceity 6y ago
Every competitor aims for dominance. Engineers should be paid more, telling them not to accept money from firms from authoritarian governments is laughable. You should be encouraging western firms to be competitive not blaming China for being authoritatian or seeking dominance. I suppose it's easier to blame others than encourage western firms to improve though. So much for democracy.