8 ms·

This is horrible for customers, the worst part is when drivers don't want to pick you up.

pavel_lishin 6y ago
I think it's going to depend by area. The last time I tried to use Uber to get a ride from the airport, I had several drivers accept, then call me - "I'm all the way in midtown, it'll take me 45 minutes to get to you, you probably want to cancel this." The incentives for drivers have always been fucked. I'd rather the drivers not accept my ride than try to play a weird game of chicken to get me to cancel when I'm trying to get somewhere.
- chrischen 6y ago
  I never had that at the airport but my contingency plan for the times when drivers decided not to show in an obvious attempt to get me to cancel was to pull up the other ride sharing app and then use that, and leave the original one running.
  - boring_twenties 6y ago
    Have you ever had them both eventually show up?
  - pavel_lishin 6y ago
    I thought about doing that. But I don't want to punish people whose economic incentives are apparently so shitty that they have to pull this kind of nonsense. I'm only that petty against spammers.
adrianN 6y ago
Here in Germany proper Taxis have to pick you up (as far as I know, I almost never need one). That's apparently the main reason they offer why they should be protected against services like Uber.
- novok 6y ago
  Or you could just extend the law to the ride sharing services...
  - valuearb 6y ago
    That’s a horrible law. What if it’s a female driver and a sketchy rider? Or worse, her abusive ex?
    - klipt 6y ago
      If you let drivers decide whom to pick up, you end up with situations like black men never being picked up. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/07/23/as-a-black-man-its-hard-to-catch-a-cab-research-shows-even-white-people-know-that/%3foutputType=amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/postever...
      - valuearb 6y ago
        That’s an article about the unwanted side effects of monopolistic tax cabs. In a competitive market, this should happen much less. And the big innovation of ride sharing is it gives a valuable tool to drivers judge potential fares with besides their appearance or pickup location, specifically their rating.
        freeone3000 6y ago
        Free markets don't solve racism. The "monopolistic" taxi cab company had numerous individual drivers, each making a decision. Moving this monopoly to Uber and Lyft doesn't work. And no stars are going to override bias.
        valuearb 6y ago
        Your assumption is that the bias is only racism, when sometimes it’s racism and sometimes fear of being robbed/assaulted. Stars definitely curbs the latter.
newacct583 6y ago
I think that's absolutely true, and it's one of the reasons that society benefits from the idea of an "employee" relationship, where you can rely on a single corporation, beholden to some kind of public consensus, to enforce a uniform set of rules. A world where everyone is a "contractor" is one where everyone is subject to the tragedy of the commons. (e.g. "You can't get a ride in a poor neighborhood") But part of the social contract is that employees, having given up that autonomy, need someone else to advocate for them collectively. Thus... labor rights and benefits legislation. Frankly this whole thing seems silly. They knew where this was going when AB5 was passed. Those features aren't a good faith attempt to comply with the law, they were an attempt to evade it (something very much in keeping with Uber's culture). The only real surprise here was that the final reckoning came sooner than expected via injunction.
- AnthonyMouse 6y ago
  > A world where everyone is a "contractor" is one where everyone is subject to the tragedy of the commons. (e.g. "You can't get a ride in a poor neighborhood") Well no, it's just the opposite. When everyone is a "contractor" you can get a ride in a poor neighborhood, you just have to pay the market rate for getting a ride there. When you try to legislate it, then you get avoidance. The driver gets assigned and then suddenly has "car trouble" or becomes ill. You summon a ride but it doesn't show up for 45 minutes because all of the drivers avoid being anywhere near that area if it means they could be forced to go there. Whereas if you just pay the market rate then a driver shows up right away because they're getting paid extra to do it. And if you don't like that rides cost more in poor neighborhoods then the government could subsidize it explicitly, instead of creating all of these perverse incentives by trying to force people to do something they otherwise wouldn't be willing to do for that amount of money. Which also puts a dollar value on the subsidy and makes it explicit, so that we can see how much we're paying in order to get it, instead of sweeping it under the rug by making the cost implicit even though it's still there.
  - newacct583 6y ago
    So... most of what you wrote is just standard-issue libertarianism and I know how those arguments go. But this part intrigued me: > And if you don't like that rides cost more in poor neighborhoods then the government could subsidize it explicitly OK, how does that work? How do you write such a law such that it can't be exploited? Are there any examples of this kind of regulation you can point to from other markets or other legal regimes or nations or whatever? I mean, this seems crazy to me, but it's also an opportunity to get you to engage on a genuine issue of social justice (c.f. "it shouldn't cost money to be poor"), so I'm willing to make the effort.
aslfksdfl 6y ago
I've had Uber drivers pick me up and refuse to go to the part of the city I wanted to go to... complete pain in the ass (and also racist in this specific case). Uber offered me $5 for my trouble each time, which is... very Uber.
- smsm42 6y ago
  If the part of the city is unsafe (as some parts of some major cities are frequently nowdays) to the point the driver risks being assaulted by a mob, dragged out and beaten or shot, and their vehicle destroyed - I see no reason why they shouldn't be able to refuse such ride. No ride worth your life, and unless you're paying 1000x the Uber rates, no ride is worth your car ruined.
  - timavr 6y ago
    I didn’t know Uber is live in Syria.
    - smsm42 6y ago
      It's live in Seattle, Portland and Chicago.
      - mrhyyyyde 6y ago
        Can you explain your point, the point is unclear. They're also live in other cities as well..?
        dnissley 6y ago
        They're claiming that those cities are extremely dangerous. But in reality, that's just innumeracy.
        DuskStar 6y ago
        I think someone attempting to get an Uber pickup (or getting dropped off by an Uber) in the middle of CHOP/CHAZ might have had some problems. Particularly at night. Or any "drop me off within the ongoing protest" ride, really.
Consultant32452 6y ago
We're just regressing back to black people not being able to get a taxi.
- WrongThinkerNo5 6y ago
  Why would "black" taxi drivers not pick up "black" passengers? What is your obsession with color coding people? It's unhealthy and racist.
  - tfehring 6y ago
    Drivers are more than twice as likely to cancel rides requested by black passengers than rides requested by white passengers. Any such "obsession" in this discussion is a reflection of observed reality, which is clearly not colorblind. https://news.iu.edu/stories/2020/07/iub/releases/22-racial-lgbt-bias-persists-in-ridesharing-platforms.html https://news.iu.edu/stories/2020/07/iub/releases/22-racial-l...
    - davidf18 6y ago
      For privacy reasons best not to use photos. Also, for these sorts of apps, probably best to choose a plain generic name, e.g, John, Sally and just say it is your middle name and that you go by your middle name.
  - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
    There's a YouTube video of African immigrant taxi drivers in NYC merrily stating that they won't pick up black Americans because of fare jumping and other issues. One claimed that he could tell who was native born and who wasn't.
  - Consultant32452 6y ago
    We've finally come full circle to the point where calling out racism is now racist. Pack it up folks, it's time to go home.
    - 6y ago
smoe 6y ago
I have never used Uber so I'm a bit ignorant. What is so bad about a driver not wanting to pick up? Wont it just keep searching for the next one. It is not really different than if there for one reason or another no drivers are available nearby?
- unishark 6y ago
  The discrepancy between finding a ride quickly to low-crime areas, while finding one slowly or not at all to high-crime areas will be attacked as systemic racism from the organization. Political correctness basically requires drivers to take rides without regard for their safety.

I think it's going to depend by area. The last time I tried to use Uber to get a ride from the airport, I had several drivers accept, then call me - "I'm all the way in midtown, it'll take me 45 minutes to get to you, you probably want to cancel this." The incentives for drivers have always been fucked. I'd rather the drivers not accept my ride than try to play a weird game of chicken to get me to cancel when I'm trying to get somewhere.

chrischen 6y ago
I never had that at the airport but my contingency plan for the times when drivers decided not to show in an obvious attempt to get me to cancel was to pull up the other ride sharing app and then use that, and leave the original one running.
- boring_twenties 6y ago
  Have you ever had them both eventually show up?
- pavel_lishin 6y ago
  I thought about doing that. But I don't want to punish people whose economic incentives are apparently so shitty that they have to pull this kind of nonsense. I'm only that petty against spammers.

adrianN 6y ago

Here in Germany proper Taxis have to pick you up (as far as I know, I almost never need one). That's apparently the main reason they offer why they should be protected against services like Uber.

novok 6y ago
Or you could just extend the law to the ride sharing services...
- valuearb 6y ago
  That’s a horrible law. What if it’s a female driver and a sketchy rider? Or worse, her abusive ex?
  - klipt 6y ago
    If you let drivers decide whom to pick up, you end up with situations like black men never being picked up. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/07/23/as-a-black-man-its-hard-to-catch-a-cab-research-shows-even-white-people-know-that/%3foutputType=amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/postever...
    - valuearb 6y ago
      That’s an article about the unwanted side effects of monopolistic tax cabs. In a competitive market, this should happen much less. And the big innovation of ride sharing is it gives a valuable tool to drivers judge potential fares with besides their appearance or pickup location, specifically their rating.
      - freeone3000 6y ago
        Free markets don't solve racism. The "monopolistic" taxi cab company had numerous individual drivers, each making a decision. Moving this monopoly to Uber and Lyft doesn't work. And no stars are going to override bias.
        valuearb 6y ago
        Your assumption is that the bias is only racism, when sometimes it’s racism and sometimes fear of being robbed/assaulted. Stars definitely curbs the latter.

newacct583 6y ago

I think that's absolutely true, and it's one of the reasons that society benefits from the idea of an "employee" relationship, where you can rely on a single corporation, beholden to some kind of public consensus, to enforce a uniform set of rules. A world where everyone is a "contractor" is one where everyone is subject to the tragedy of the commons. (e.g. "You can't get a ride in a poor neighborhood") But part of the social contract is that employees, having given up that autonomy, need someone else to advocate for them collectively. Thus... labor rights and benefits legislation. Frankly this whole thing seems silly. They knew where this was going when AB5 was passed. Those features aren't a good faith attempt to comply with the law, they were an attempt to evade it (something very much in keeping with Uber's culture). The only real surprise here was that the final reckoning came sooner than expected via injunction.

AnthonyMouse 6y ago
> A world where everyone is a "contractor" is one where everyone is subject to the tragedy of the commons. (e.g. "You can't get a ride in a poor neighborhood") Well no, it's just the opposite. When everyone is a "contractor" you can get a ride in a poor neighborhood, you just have to pay the market rate for getting a ride there. When you try to legislate it, then you get avoidance. The driver gets assigned and then suddenly has "car trouble" or becomes ill. You summon a ride but it doesn't show up for 45 minutes because all of the drivers avoid being anywhere near that area if it means they could be forced to go there. Whereas if you just pay the market rate then a driver shows up right away because they're getting paid extra to do it. And if you don't like that rides cost more in poor neighborhoods then the government could subsidize it explicitly, instead of creating all of these perverse incentives by trying to force people to do something they otherwise wouldn't be willing to do for that amount of money. Which also puts a dollar value on the subsidy and makes it explicit, so that we can see how much we're paying in order to get it, instead of sweeping it under the rug by making the cost implicit even though it's still there.
- newacct583 6y ago
  So... most of what you wrote is just standard-issue libertarianism and I know how those arguments go. But this part intrigued me: > And if you don't like that rides cost more in poor neighborhoods then the government could subsidize it explicitly OK, how does that work? How do you write such a law such that it can't be exploited? Are there any examples of this kind of regulation you can point to from other markets or other legal regimes or nations or whatever? I mean, this seems crazy to me, but it's also an opportunity to get you to engage on a genuine issue of social justice (c.f. "it shouldn't cost money to be poor"), so I'm willing to make the effort.

aslfksdfl 6y ago

I've had Uber drivers pick me up and refuse to go to the part of the city I wanted to go to... complete pain in the ass (and also racist in this specific case). Uber offered me $5 for my trouble each time, which is... very Uber.

smsm42 6y ago
If the part of the city is unsafe (as some parts of some major cities are frequently nowdays) to the point the driver risks being assaulted by a mob, dragged out and beaten or shot, and their vehicle destroyed - I see no reason why they shouldn't be able to refuse such ride. No ride worth your life, and unless you're paying 1000x the Uber rates, no ride is worth your car ruined.
- timavr 6y ago
  I didn’t know Uber is live in Syria.
  - smsm42 6y ago
    It's live in Seattle, Portland and Chicago.
    - mrhyyyyde 6y ago
      Can you explain your point, the point is unclear. They're also live in other cities as well..?
      - dnissley 6y ago
        They're claiming that those cities are extremely dangerous. But in reality, that's just innumeracy.
        DuskStar 6y ago
        I think someone attempting to get an Uber pickup (or getting dropped off by an Uber) in the middle of CHOP/CHAZ might have had some problems. Particularly at night. Or any "drop me off within the ongoing protest" ride, really.

Consultant32452 6y ago

We're just regressing back to black people not being able to get a taxi.

WrongThinkerNo5 6y ago
Why would "black" taxi drivers not pick up "black" passengers? What is your obsession with color coding people? It's unhealthy and racist.
- tfehring 6y ago
  Drivers are more than twice as likely to cancel rides requested by black passengers than rides requested by white passengers. Any such "obsession" in this discussion is a reflection of observed reality, which is clearly not colorblind. https://news.iu.edu/stories/2020/07/iub/releases/22-racial-lgbt-bias-persists-in-ridesharing-platforms.html https://news.iu.edu/stories/2020/07/iub/releases/22-racial-l...
  - davidf18 6y ago
    For privacy reasons best not to use photos. Also, for these sorts of apps, probably best to choose a plain generic name, e.g, John, Sally and just say it is your middle name and that you go by your middle name.
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
  There's a YouTube video of African immigrant taxi drivers in NYC merrily stating that they won't pick up black Americans because of fare jumping and other issues. One claimed that he could tell who was native born and who wasn't.
- Consultant32452 6y ago
  We've finally come full circle to the point where calling out racism is now racist. Pack it up folks, it's time to go home.
  - 6y ago

smoe 6y ago

I have never used Uber so I'm a bit ignorant. What is so bad about a driver not wanting to pick up? Wont it just keep searching for the next one. It is not really different than if there for one reason or another no drivers are available nearby?

unishark 6y ago
The discrepancy between finding a ride quickly to low-crime areas, while finding one slowly or not at all to high-crime areas will be attacked as systemic racism from the organization. Political correctness basically requires drivers to take rides without regard for their safety.