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"For Mozilla folks looking for a landing spot, Safari and WebKit teams have a number of openings. DM if interested in any of the below: - HTTP stack - Web dev t

"For Mozilla folks looking for a landing spot, Safari and WebKit teams have a number of openings. DM if interested in any of the below: - HTTP stack - Web dev tools - 3D/AR/VR - Mac app - iOS app - Web Extensions - Any web platform area (layout, web APIs, ...) " https://twitter.com/othermaciej/status/1293252487021916161 https://twitter.com/othermaciej/status/1293252487021916161

hashtagmarkup 6y ago
Offering a Safari job to someone from Mozilla probably hurts them more then getting fired.
andybak 6y ago
Is there any support for XR on the open web in that team? Genuinely interested if some of the spirit of Mozilla could be preserved in that transition.
- sp332 6y ago
  Yup! https://twitter.com/othermaciej/status/1293268688762572800 https://twitter.com/othermaciej/status/1293268688762572800
scarface74 6y ago
Looking at the Twitter responses, I don’t know why people assume that every single Mozilla employee would put “being part of the open web and contributing to open source” above people’s crazy obsession with having a job and being able to afford food and shelter.
- Aeolun 6y ago
  I guess everyone expects their job to provide food and shelter, so it would be a bit hard to advertise with that as if it were a positive.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    Which has done more to prevent Chrome’s complete dominance - Apple or Firefox? Besides, WebKit is open source. Google could kill Firefox by just not renewing its search contract.
    - wolco 6y ago
      Mozilla would go with another partner and/or change their structure to accept donations for the browser. If money wasn't a consideration perhaps ddg become a good partner. That combo could shift as much as 5% of google traffic away from search.
      - scarface74 6y ago
        Because another partner would pay to be the default search engine of a browser with declining market share. Would you want to count on donations to fund a company the size of Mozilla? Google pays Apple a reported $8 billion a year to be the default search engine for iOS. It pays Mozilla less than $600 million (https://www.cnet.com/news/google-firefox-search-deal-gives-mozilla-more-money-to-push-privacy/ https://www.cnet.com/news/google-firefox-search-deal-gives-m...). Doesn’t that tell you how little Firefox traffic is worth?
        nitrogen 6y ago
        How is $600mil/yr "little"? That's a metric f-ton of money by any standards except "companies that are larger than countries."
        waterhouse 6y ago
        Googling around, a few sources tell me there are about 250 million Firefox users; Mozilla currently seems to say 210 million: https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity As for iOS, this source says there were 900 million iPhone users (doesn't include iPads) as of Jan 2019: https://www.idownloadblog.com/2019/01/30/900-million-iphones-milestone/ https://www.idownloadblog.com/2019/01/30/900-million-iphones... , and this one says 1.5 billion Apple devices (probably includes Macs) as of Q1 2020: https://9to5mac.com/2020/01/28/apple-hits-1-5-billion-active-devices-with-80-of-recent-iphones-and-ipads-running-ios-13/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/01/28/apple-hits-1-5-billion-active... I'll arbitrarily guess 1.2 billion iOS users (the rest being Macs). In that case, there are maybe 6x as many iOS users as Firefox users. Therefore, if Google paid the same per Firefox user as they did per iOS user, they would have paid $1.3 billion for Firefox users. That's a difference of about 2x per user from what they actually paid. iOS users have demonstrably paid for (or been gifted by people who paid for) premium electronic devices, which I would expect makes them more valuable advertising targets. I'm mildly surprised that the difference isn't larger, but I don't have a good feel for advertising expenditures.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  Right - most people just want to feed their kids first and worry about other things later. I think the idea that most Mozilla employees were working there for morals rather than being able to buy their children shoes is doubtful.
  - Bnshsysjab 6y ago
    If I were to work there it wouldn’t be so much to be an open source contributor but to be at the core of modern web. I don’t have kids so I don’t know what that part is like, though.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      The modern web where less than 10% will use it? How is that “the core”? That’s like saying that working at Apple and being on the macOS team you will be part of the core of PC operating systems.
      - Bnshsysjab 6y ago
        If you’re developing browsers which deal with modern standards you’re absolutely at the core of the web. Far more so than a typical web dev job. But it seems that you just wanna piss on Firefox for market share reasons.
  - jopsen 6y ago
    Yes, while Mozilla does pay well, you can usually get a little more at a larger tech company. (Speaking from personal experience). That said, is always a mix, and a balancing act. And a matter of finding something fun to work on :)
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      I actually don't get how it works working at a non-profit. Like everyone else I know working in tech, the vast majority of my compensation is in stock. If your company doesn't have stock... what do they do? I guess they don't pay you 4x the base rate to compensation?
- tambourine_man 6y ago
  Modern web browsers are among the most complex piece of software out there. If you’re qualified to write that kind of code, basic needs are surely well taken care of and are the least of your concerns. To put it simply, these people will not have a hard time finding high paying jobs. And since they are able to choose, “being part of the open web” makes a lot of sense.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    Which company that cares about the “open web” pays well - instead of just paying lip service to openness [1]. Have you checked Mozilla’s salary? https://www.levels.fyi/company/Mozilla/salaries/Software-Engineer/ https://www.levels.fyi/company/Mozilla/salaries/Software-Eng... I was making almost that much pre-Covid as a regular old SAAS CRUD developer in the south East US. It was comfortable but far from not needing to work for a few months and hold out because I was concerned about “open source values”. I jumped at the chance to work remotely at BigTech three months ago. I’m sure many of them would too. [1] https://mobile.twitter.com/arubin/status/27808662429?locale=hi https://mobile.twitter.com/arubin/status/27808662429?locale=... https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/googles-iron-grip-on-android-controlling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/googles-iron-grip-on...
    - tambourine_man 6y ago
      Do you need to make 15k/month? In my experience, finding fulfilling work is harder than well paying ones.
      - khaidardotco 6y ago
        Well, the key is that you trade your time for something and — if it is indeed harder to find a fulfilling work — you wish to maximize that something in a time you do work in order to be able to allocate more time towards more satisfactory ends.
        tambourine_man 6y ago

hashtagmarkup 6y ago

Offering a Safari job to someone from Mozilla probably hurts them more then getting fired.

andybak 6y ago

Is there any support for XR on the open web in that team? Genuinely interested if some of the spirit of Mozilla could be preserved in that transition.

sp332 6y ago
Yup! https://twitter.com/othermaciej/status/1293268688762572800 https://twitter.com/othermaciej/status/1293268688762572800

scarface74 6y ago

Looking at the Twitter responses, I don’t know why people assume that every single Mozilla employee would put “being part of the open web and contributing to open source” above people’s crazy obsession with having a job and being able to afford food and shelter.

Aeolun 6y ago
I guess everyone expects their job to provide food and shelter, so it would be a bit hard to advertise with that as if it were a positive.
- scarface74 6y ago
  Which has done more to prevent Chrome’s complete dominance - Apple or Firefox? Besides, WebKit is open source. Google could kill Firefox by just not renewing its search contract.
  - wolco 6y ago
    Mozilla would go with another partner and/or change their structure to accept donations for the browser. If money wasn't a consideration perhaps ddg become a good partner. That combo could shift as much as 5% of google traffic away from search.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      Because another partner would pay to be the default search engine of a browser with declining market share. Would you want to count on donations to fund a company the size of Mozilla? Google pays Apple a reported $8 billion a year to be the default search engine for iOS. It pays Mozilla less than $600 million (https://www.cnet.com/news/google-firefox-search-deal-gives-mozilla-more-money-to-push-privacy/ https://www.cnet.com/news/google-firefox-search-deal-gives-m...). Doesn’t that tell you how little Firefox traffic is worth?
      - nitrogen 6y ago
        How is $600mil/yr "little"? That's a metric f-ton of money by any standards except "companies that are larger than countries."
        waterhouse 6y ago
        Googling around, a few sources tell me there are about 250 million Firefox users; Mozilla currently seems to say 210 million: https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity As for iOS, this source says there were 900 million iPhone users (doesn't include iPads) as of Jan 2019: https://www.idownloadblog.com/2019/01/30/900-million-iphones-milestone/ https://www.idownloadblog.com/2019/01/30/900-million-iphones... , and this one says 1.5 billion Apple devices (probably includes Macs) as of Q1 2020: https://9to5mac.com/2020/01/28/apple-hits-1-5-billion-active-devices-with-80-of-recent-iphones-and-ipads-running-ios-13/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/01/28/apple-hits-1-5-billion-active... I'll arbitrarily guess 1.2 billion iOS users (the rest being Macs). In that case, there are maybe 6x as many iOS users as Firefox users. Therefore, if Google paid the same per Firefox user as they did per iOS user, they would have paid $1.3 billion for Firefox users. That's a difference of about 2x per user from what they actually paid. iOS users have demonstrably paid for (or been gifted by people who paid for) premium electronic devices, which I would expect makes them more valuable advertising targets. I'm mildly surprised that the difference isn't larger, but I don't have a good feel for advertising expenditures.
chrisseaton 6y ago
Right - most people just want to feed their kids first and worry about other things later. I think the idea that most Mozilla employees were working there for morals rather than being able to buy their children shoes is doubtful.
- Bnshsysjab 6y ago
  If I were to work there it wouldn’t be so much to be an open source contributor but to be at the core of modern web. I don’t have kids so I don’t know what that part is like, though.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    The modern web where less than 10% will use it? How is that “the core”? That’s like saying that working at Apple and being on the macOS team you will be part of the core of PC operating systems.
    - Bnshsysjab 6y ago
      If you’re developing browsers which deal with modern standards you’re absolutely at the core of the web. Far more so than a typical web dev job. But it seems that you just wanna piss on Firefox for market share reasons.
- jopsen 6y ago
  Yes, while Mozilla does pay well, you can usually get a little more at a larger tech company. (Speaking from personal experience). That said, is always a mix, and a balancing act. And a matter of finding something fun to work on :)
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    I actually don't get how it works working at a non-profit. Like everyone else I know working in tech, the vast majority of my compensation is in stock. If your company doesn't have stock... what do they do? I guess they don't pay you 4x the base rate to compensation?
tambourine_man 6y ago
Modern web browsers are among the most complex piece of software out there. If you’re qualified to write that kind of code, basic needs are surely well taken care of and are the least of your concerns. To put it simply, these people will not have a hard time finding high paying jobs. And since they are able to choose, “being part of the open web” makes a lot of sense.
- scarface74 6y ago
  Which company that cares about the “open web” pays well - instead of just paying lip service to openness [1]. Have you checked Mozilla’s salary? https://www.levels.fyi/company/Mozilla/salaries/Software-Engineer/ https://www.levels.fyi/company/Mozilla/salaries/Software-Eng... I was making almost that much pre-Covid as a regular old SAAS CRUD developer in the south East US. It was comfortable but far from not needing to work for a few months and hold out because I was concerned about “open source values”. I jumped at the chance to work remotely at BigTech three months ago. I’m sure many of them would too. [1] https://mobile.twitter.com/arubin/status/27808662429?locale=hi https://mobile.twitter.com/arubin/status/27808662429?locale=... https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/googles-iron-grip-on-android-controlling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/googles-iron-grip-on...
  - tambourine_man 6y ago
    Do you need to make 15k/month? In my experience, finding fulfilling work is harder than well paying ones.
    - khaidardotco 6y ago
      Well, the key is that you trade your time for something and — if it is indeed harder to find a fulfilling work — you wish to maximize that something in a time you do work in order to be able to allocate more time towards more satisfactory ends.
      - tambourine_man 6y ago