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Dude, I live in the heart of Silicon Valley and have dealt with AT&T and two different offices and my home. And I can tell you that AT&T are both utterly cluel

Dude, I live in the heart of Silicon Valley and have dealt with AT&T and two different offices and my home. And I can tell you that AT&T are both utterly clueless and shameless liars when it comes to FTTH and FTTN installations. You can not imagine the depth of my anger with those clowns. I have no idea who you work for. But my personal experience with trying to get fiber from AT&T in what is supposed to be one of the most tech-forward regions of the world is laughable. The government may not be better, but at least I know where to aim my pitchforks and torches.

e40 6y ago
I'm sitting here on a Comcast connection that is expensive and AT&T has FTTH in my neighborhood. I just can't seem to pull the trigger on the order because of the horror stories I've heard, and from personal experience. When I had ADSL from AT&T, they absolutely could not give me a connect that didn't drop randomly 2-10 times a day. I had 10+ visits from them over several years and at one point they told me "don't call us anymore" because I was too expensive for them. This, after being told by someone that put a device on my line and found the problem was in the drop cable (from the pole to the house). The new drop cable was ordered and a guy shows up 2 hours later and tells me it's not the drop cable (he didn't measure anything). When pressed, he told me it was too expensive to replace the drop cable. A subsequent tech told me to have a "tree trimming accident" where the drop cable was severed. I was worried I would be charged many thousands of $'s so I didn't do it and just switched to Comcast. (I have had my own issues with Comcast, and I hate them with a passion.) The situation with home internet is just so shitty.
- stevenjgarner 6y ago
  In addressing this at a political/regulatory level it became clear to me that while it is convenient to beat up on Comcast (however deserving they may be of such treatment), the real problem on the east coast corridor are the trade unions. They have raised the cost of doing business by at least an order of magnitude. It is a heartbreak for me personally - my grandfather was highly involved in the labor movement back in his day and today he would roll over in his grave at the rampant corruption.
  - bagrow 6y ago
    Citation needed. Comcast for one is _vehemently_ anti-union. I see only right-wing media claiming unions drive up internet costs.
- setpatchaddress 6y ago
  FWIW, I have had the exact opposite situation in multiple locations across the country -- every DSL (and, once, FTTH) connection I've had has been rock solid -- every Comcast internet connection has been flaky -- in one place, the connection went down every afternoon. Multiple Comcast technicians couldn't figure out the problem. I so agree with your last statement. If you're in an area they serve, getting Sonic is much better, BTW. They can operate over AT&T FTTH and DSL. It's a tad more expensive, but the customer service is unbeatable.
  - e40 6y ago
    Sonic uses AT&T in my area, so I will definitely check them out. Thanks. It's a little annoying I have to get a landline, which basically adds $15-20 to the price. <sigh> I have an asterisk/freepbx system that I will continue to use. I wonder if their TOS require you to hook up a phone. Not looking forward to reading that...
- beamatronic 6y ago
  Without debating the technical/cancer type of issues... Isn't 5G supposed to finally make wires obsolete? You'll put a device in your house (from say, Verizon) which speaks 5G on one side, and maybe has an ethernet jack and/or speaks Wi-Fi on the other side.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    I’ve yet to experience any wireless connection with fidelity, latency, and bandwidth as good as fiber.
    - chasd00 6y ago
      "fidelity" is a new one to me, what does that mean in the world of digital communications?
      - simcop2387 6y ago
        In this case it'd likely be talking about corrupted, truncated, or otherwise mangled packets. So having to retransmit things. You'd still technically have the same bandwidth and latency on the connection itself even if it's causing all kinds of overhead on upper levels of the stack.
      - dillonmckay 6y ago
        Could also be related to audio transmission, like bluetooth versus wired. Also, fiber can be analog, too.
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        I just use the word as shorthand for “it just works in all aspects”.
  - notJim 6y ago
    LOL, and I'm sure Verizon would only charge you $150/mo for a whole gigabyte per month! Er I'm sorry, it's unlimited!* * Slows down to 2G after 1 gigabyte.
stevenjgarner 6y ago
I totally agree. The prevailing perception that Silicon Valley (the original MAE-West) and Virginia's MAE-East are the touchstones of high bandwidth Internet is not true either - while they are the peering points for (inter)national networks, the local access Internet offerings in those regions are indeed laughable. Meanwhile the small rural towns in fly-over country tend to enjoy networks that are gigabit to the home or better for under $100 MRC. I know of businesses in Philadelphia that had to relocate to Winona, Minnesota simply to lower their Internet costs from thousands of dollars per month (with Comcast) to under $200 MRC for a direct gigabit optical Internet connection.
- oivey 6y ago
  Gigabit Internet in small rural towns is very unusual.
  - stevenjgarner 6y ago
    I disagree. It would be an exaggeration to say it is ubiquitous, but it is more common than you think: https://www.rd.usda.gov/programs-services/all-programs/telecommunications-programs/telecom-maps https://www.rd.usda.gov/programs-services/all-programs/telec.... Certainly not VERY unusual.
fossuser 6y ago
I'm in Palo Alto - sounds like maybe you are too? The best networking option available is Comcast Gigabit Pro (2gbps both up and down). I wrote up details here: https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeNetworking/comments/fs6un2/comcast_gigabit_pro/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeNetworking/comments/fs6un2/comc... These two articles are also helpful: - https://binaryimpulse.com/2019/11/comcast-gigabit-pro-install/ https://binaryimpulse.com/2019/11/comcast-gigabit-pro-instal... - https://medium.com/@Gtwy/comcasts-2000mbit-fiber-to-the-home-f106d64d5f51 https://medium.com/@Gtwy/comcasts-2000mbit-fiber-to-the-home... If you're not looking to spend that much, Comcast gigabit (non-pro) is cheap and gets you 1gbps down, but only 35mbps up. They're annoying to interact with, but once it's set up it's reliable. Pro-tip: Ignore the Comcast website prices/packages. The only way to work with them is to call and get a friendly sales rep, then ask them to look through their options to find the best gigabit only plan (they have a lot more promotions available than they list online). This might take a few tries if you get someone on the phone that isn't very good. Comcast Twitter support is also pretty helpful. You should be able to get something around ~$80, but it might require a multi-year contract to lock in the price. I also had to add $50/month to remove the 1TB cap because of this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Comcast/comments/dqwsnj/comcast_data_usage_doubles_for_no_obvious_reason/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Comcast/comments/dqwsnj/comcast_dat...
- stevenjgarner 6y ago
  That is not gigabit. That is 35MB. Big difference. Internet MUST be symmetrical. There are too many essential peer-to-peer technologies for it to be anything but symmetrical.
  - easton 6y ago
    Gigabit Pro is symmetrical, normal Gigabit is not. Gigabit Pro is FTTH (whereas all of Comcast's other plans go over copper/DOCSIS3), and is symmetrical 2Gbps. For $300 per month with a mandatory $2k install, I might add. You have to call them to get a quote, but here's a good blog post with the important info: https://binaryimpulse.com/2019/11/comcast-gigabit-pro-install/ https://binaryimpulse.com/2019/11/comcast-gigabit-pro-instal...
  - 6y ago
jackson1442 6y ago
> AT&T are both utterly clueless and shameless liars Seconded. We had AT&T Fiber a few years ago, and were having techs out just about every week to fix it and were given a nonsense reason like "this cable was loose" each time. Once we got fed up and canceled service, the tech told us that corporate fucked up the install for the whole neighborhood so they'd basically send techs out, tell them to lie, and have them add whatever bandaid was needed to fix it for just a little longer.

e40 6y ago

I'm sitting here on a Comcast connection that is expensive and AT&T has FTTH in my neighborhood. I just can't seem to pull the trigger on the order because of the horror stories I've heard, and from personal experience. When I had ADSL from AT&T, they absolutely could not give me a connect that didn't drop randomly 2-10 times a day. I had 10+ visits from them over several years and at one point they told me "don't call us anymore" because I was too expensive for them. This, after being told by someone that put a device on my line and found the problem was in the drop cable (from the pole to the house). The new drop cable was ordered and a guy shows up 2 hours later and tells me it's not the drop cable (he didn't measure anything). When pressed, he told me it was too expensive to replace the drop cable. A subsequent tech told me to have a "tree trimming accident" where the drop cable was severed. I was worried I would be charged many thousands of $'s so I didn't do it and just switched to Comcast. (I have had my own issues with Comcast, and I hate them with a passion.) The situation with home internet is just so shitty.

stevenjgarner 6y ago
In addressing this at a political/regulatory level it became clear to me that while it is convenient to beat up on Comcast (however deserving they may be of such treatment), the real problem on the east coast corridor are the trade unions. They have raised the cost of doing business by at least an order of magnitude. It is a heartbreak for me personally - my grandfather was highly involved in the labor movement back in his day and today he would roll over in his grave at the rampant corruption.
- bagrow 6y ago
  Citation needed. Comcast for one is _vehemently_ anti-union. I see only right-wing media claiming unions drive up internet costs.
setpatchaddress 6y ago
FWIW, I have had the exact opposite situation in multiple locations across the country -- every DSL (and, once, FTTH) connection I've had has been rock solid -- every Comcast internet connection has been flaky -- in one place, the connection went down every afternoon. Multiple Comcast technicians couldn't figure out the problem. I so agree with your last statement. If you're in an area they serve, getting Sonic is much better, BTW. They can operate over AT&T FTTH and DSL. It's a tad more expensive, but the customer service is unbeatable.
- e40 6y ago
  Sonic uses AT&T in my area, so I will definitely check them out. Thanks. It's a little annoying I have to get a landline, which basically adds $15-20 to the price. <sigh> I have an asterisk/freepbx system that I will continue to use. I wonder if their TOS require you to hook up a phone. Not looking forward to reading that...
beamatronic 6y ago
Without debating the technical/cancer type of issues... Isn't 5G supposed to finally make wires obsolete? You'll put a device in your house (from say, Verizon) which speaks 5G on one side, and maybe has an ethernet jack and/or speaks Wi-Fi on the other side.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  I’ve yet to experience any wireless connection with fidelity, latency, and bandwidth as good as fiber.
  - chasd00 6y ago
    "fidelity" is a new one to me, what does that mean in the world of digital communications?
    - simcop2387 6y ago
      In this case it'd likely be talking about corrupted, truncated, or otherwise mangled packets. So having to retransmit things. You'd still technically have the same bandwidth and latency on the connection itself even if it's causing all kinds of overhead on upper levels of the stack.
    - dillonmckay 6y ago
      Could also be related to audio transmission, like bluetooth versus wired. Also, fiber can be analog, too.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      I just use the word as shorthand for “it just works in all aspects”.
- notJim 6y ago
  LOL, and I'm sure Verizon would only charge you $150/mo for a whole gigabyte per month! Er I'm sorry, it's unlimited!* * Slows down to 2G after 1 gigabyte.

stevenjgarner 6y ago

I totally agree. The prevailing perception that Silicon Valley (the original MAE-West) and Virginia's MAE-East are the touchstones of high bandwidth Internet is not true either - while they are the peering points for (inter)national networks, the local access Internet offerings in those regions are indeed laughable. Meanwhile the small rural towns in fly-over country tend to enjoy networks that are gigabit to the home or better for under $100 MRC. I know of businesses in Philadelphia that had to relocate to Winona, Minnesota simply to lower their Internet costs from thousands of dollars per month (with Comcast) to under $200 MRC for a direct gigabit optical Internet connection.

oivey 6y ago
Gigabit Internet in small rural towns is very unusual.
- stevenjgarner 6y ago
  I disagree. It would be an exaggeration to say it is ubiquitous, but it is more common than you think: https://www.rd.usda.gov/programs-services/all-programs/telecommunications-programs/telecom-maps https://www.rd.usda.gov/programs-services/all-programs/telec.... Certainly not VERY unusual.

fossuser 6y ago

I'm in Palo Alto - sounds like maybe you are too? The best networking option available is Comcast Gigabit Pro (2gbps both up and down). I wrote up details here: https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeNetworking/comments/fs6un2/comcast_gigabit_pro/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeNetworking/comments/fs6un2/comc... These two articles are also helpful: - https://binaryimpulse.com/2019/11/comcast-gigabit-pro-install/ https://binaryimpulse.com/2019/11/comcast-gigabit-pro-instal... - https://medium.com/@Gtwy/comcasts-2000mbit-fiber-to-the-home-f106d64d5f51 https://medium.com/@Gtwy/comcasts-2000mbit-fiber-to-the-home... If you're not looking to spend that much, Comcast gigabit (non-pro) is cheap and gets you 1gbps down, but only 35mbps up. They're annoying to interact with, but once it's set up it's reliable. Pro-tip: Ignore the Comcast website prices/packages. The only way to work with them is to call and get a friendly sales rep, then ask them to look through their options to find the best gigabit only plan (they have a lot more promotions available than they list online). This might take a few tries if you get someone on the phone that isn't very good. Comcast Twitter support is also pretty helpful. You should be able to get something around ~$80, but it might require a multi-year contract to lock in the price. I also had to add $50/month to remove the 1TB cap because of this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Comcast/comments/dqwsnj/comcast_data_usage_doubles_for_no_obvious_reason/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Comcast/comments/dqwsnj/comcast_dat...

stevenjgarner 6y ago
That is not gigabit. That is 35MB. Big difference. Internet MUST be symmetrical. There are too many essential peer-to-peer technologies for it to be anything but symmetrical.
- easton 6y ago
  Gigabit Pro is symmetrical, normal Gigabit is not. Gigabit Pro is FTTH (whereas all of Comcast's other plans go over copper/DOCSIS3), and is symmetrical 2Gbps. For $300 per month with a mandatory $2k install, I might add. You have to call them to get a quote, but here's a good blog post with the important info: https://binaryimpulse.com/2019/11/comcast-gigabit-pro-install/ https://binaryimpulse.com/2019/11/comcast-gigabit-pro-instal...
- 6y ago

jackson1442 6y ago

> AT&T are both utterly clueless and shameless liars Seconded. We had AT&T Fiber a few years ago, and were having techs out just about every week to fix it and were given a nonsense reason like "this cable was loose" each time. Once we got fed up and canceled service, the tech told us that corporate fucked up the install for the whole neighborhood so they'd basically send techs out, tell them to lie, and have them add whatever bandaid was needed to fix it for just a little longer.