14 ms·

> This is one of the key reasons you need to give the right incentives and compensations to your employees. I have seen too many tech companies failing at emplo

by neya 6y ago

> This is one of the key reasons you need to give the right incentives and compensations to your employees. I have seen too many tech companies failing at employee retention. (Disclaimer - I speak from a neutral standpoint, I'm not a politics person.) It's not so black and white. There's also nationality at play. Chinese employees can be very nationalistic in times of war, especially, if they live in and around ASEAN. The moment something bad happens (to China), they will view it as China being the victim and do things others wouldn't normally do. Case in point: Remember the Huawei ban? A lot of my ex-colleagues and friends (who are Chinese) dumped their iPhones at ridiculously low prices and exchanged it for a Huawei to show support for China (despite being outside of China). I saw this with my own eyes and I was blown away. I mean, convincing an Apple user to switch to Android is a billion dollar problem that Google is trying to solve for years now and just like a snap of a finger, nationality is reason enough for them to make the switch, irrespective of their personal consequences (switching clouds, etc). Likewise, incentives alone isn't enough, there's not much you can do if the employees view this as a nationalistic issue.

caoilte 6y ago
They offered 2.5x salary...
SPBS 6y ago
I'm confused. Are you saying that mainland Chinese feel -more- nationalistic if they live in the ASEAN region, i e. outside of their home country? Or are these employees from an ASEAN country but are just Chinese in ethnicity?
hakka-nyu-su 6y ago
Dumping Apple isn't the best example, since Apple is a luxury product that is more about signaling status than about a great computing power-vs-cost value proposition.
- thebean11 6y ago
  > more about signaling status than about a great computing power-vs-cost value proposition The iPhone SE is up there in power-vs-cost, and in terms of dollars per year of usage Apple probably has the best numbers.
- StreamBright 6y ago
  Not everybody buys lates ridiculously overpriced iPhones. Some of us buys Apple because Android has unbearable UX. Older models or SE models are perfectly fine.
- baq 6y ago
  the new iphone SE is an absolute killer in that exact metric.
- anoraca 6y ago
  I buy Apple iPhones for the quality of the design and manufacturing, the 5+ years of updates, and the focus on platform security.
- klyrs 6y ago
  I agree with the sibling comments about technical superiority, however, I see a flaw in your logic. If people are buying apple for signalling, then it would make sense for them to similarly ditch it in favor of another signal which better fits their identity.
- Barrin92 6y ago
  >since Apple is a luxury product that is more about signaling status than about a great computing power-vs-cost value proposition this isn't a universal phenomenon, funnily enough in China the brand appears to have the opposite effect[1]. It's more seen like a vanity purchase akin to I guess something like a Gucci bag. "Apple iPhone users in China are generally less educated, hard-up and with few valuable assets, compared to users of other mobile phone brands such as Huawei Technologies or Xiaomi, according to a report by research agency MobData. The Shanghai-based firm also found that most iPhone users are unmarried females aged between 18 and 34, who graduated with just a high-school certificate and earn a monthly income of below 3,000 yuan (HK$3,800). They are perceived to be part of a group known as the “invisible poor” – those who do not look as poor as their financial circumstances." [1] https://www.scmp.com/tech/article/2174310/research-highlights-class-divide-between-poor-apple-iphone-and-rich-huawei https://www.scmp.com/tech/article/2174310/research-highlight...
FooBarWidget 6y ago
Do you think nationality is the only reason, or do you think they could also genuinely disagree with Huawei's treatment, for reasons that are reasonable if one accepts a different point of view?
- AsyncAwait 6y ago
  I am not Chinese and do think that the amount of accusations is much larger than the body of evidence to support them, I'd guess there are others of similar opinion, some of them Chinese, others not. What I dislike is people generally assuming that I somehow agree with every single thing Huawei, or the CCP for that matter, has ever done.
  - totalZero 6y ago
    The body of evidence that Huawei steals intellectual property is quite substantial. If you want to read about it, you can start with these: https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1124996/download https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1124996/downl... https://blogs.cisco.com/news/huawei-and-ciscos-source-code-correcting-the-record https://blogs.cisco.com/news/huawei-and-ciscos-source-code-c... https://amlawdaily.typepad.com/motorolahuawei.pdf https://amlawdaily.typepad.com/motorolahuawei.pdf https://www.mpegla.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/FINAL-Huawei-ZTE-Infringement-PrsRls-2018-11-16.pdf https://www.mpegla.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/FINAL-Huaw...
    - AsyncAwait 6y ago
      I am looking for extensive evidence that they backdoor their equipment and feed data to the CCP. As far as the "intellectual property" goes, it is used by the winners to kick down the ladder they themselves climbed. The U.S. used to steal from Europe while it was developing, now suddenly IP matters a lot. The Japanese used to steal quite a bit of IP, yet Nintendo is now super hawkish to protect its own. Chinese companies will get overly protective of its own IP once they sufficiently develop. All in all, is a well known circle that may signal it's time to rethink how IP is currently structured and enforced around the world.
beaunative 6y ago
Tha fact those ex-colleagues and friends who bought and use iPhone in the first place indciates they are not generally a nationalist person. The reason they bought Huawei is because they realized when the US is banning Huawei, while China is not banning Apple, that is simply not fair, the US is not what it claims to be, or what they thought it to be. To be clear, I don't think it's fair either.
- seanmcdirmid 6y ago
  Or they could have been worried about not being seen as nationalistic to their peers and bosses, even if they aren’t that nationalistic themselves. A lot of nationalism in China is derived from social and peer pressure.
  - Aperocky 6y ago
    > despite being outside of China Yeah that doesn't seem to be the case.
    - seanmcdirmid 6y ago
      Peer pressure from other Chinese still exists especially outside of China, but it is more likely they felt nationalism since they were abroad and it wasn't being forced down their throat everyday. The best way to make kids hate Mao is to force them to take a class on him.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- resdeterr 6y ago
  But every major US tech company is banned or blocked from competing in China, isn’t it? and has been for a decade or more. Apple is the one exception. In which direction do they think the current situation is unfair? (to be clear, I’m not sure whether I agree with it or not, but it seems like a strange thing to focus on exclusively)
coliveira 6y ago
Nothing different here from the patriotic sentiment in America. One should not be so surprised with something that is already so common in a particular Western country.
coliveira 6y ago
You don't need to assume patriotic sentiment for this. The Chinese are paying a lot more than other companies, and the project is clearly fantastic. Even I would be interested if this was happening in my industry.
whywhywhywhy 6y ago
Plenty of my friends switched from iPhones to Huawei, they're not Chinese though it's just since iPhones got more expensive when you drop them a few times you just decide to go for something cheaper and Huawei hits all the points they look for in iPhones. The value prop of the iPhone just isn't there anymore if you are not stuck in the ecosystem.

by neya 6y ago

caoilte 6y ago

They offered 2.5x salary...

SPBS 6y ago

I'm confused. Are you saying that mainland Chinese feel -more- nationalistic if they live in the ASEAN region, i e. outside of their home country? Or are these employees from an ASEAN country but are just Chinese in ethnicity?

hakka-nyu-su 6y ago

Dumping Apple isn't the best example, since Apple is a luxury product that is more about signaling status than about a great computing power-vs-cost value proposition.

thebean11 6y ago
> more about signaling status than about a great computing power-vs-cost value proposition The iPhone SE is up there in power-vs-cost, and in terms of dollars per year of usage Apple probably has the best numbers.
StreamBright 6y ago
Not everybody buys lates ridiculously overpriced iPhones. Some of us buys Apple because Android has unbearable UX. Older models or SE models are perfectly fine.
baq 6y ago
the new iphone SE is an absolute killer in that exact metric.
anoraca 6y ago
I buy Apple iPhones for the quality of the design and manufacturing, the 5+ years of updates, and the focus on platform security.
klyrs 6y ago
I agree with the sibling comments about technical superiority, however, I see a flaw in your logic. If people are buying apple for signalling, then it would make sense for them to similarly ditch it in favor of another signal which better fits their identity.
Barrin92 6y ago
>since Apple is a luxury product that is more about signaling status than about a great computing power-vs-cost value proposition this isn't a universal phenomenon, funnily enough in China the brand appears to have the opposite effect[1]. It's more seen like a vanity purchase akin to I guess something like a Gucci bag. "Apple iPhone users in China are generally less educated, hard-up and with few valuable assets, compared to users of other mobile phone brands such as Huawei Technologies or Xiaomi, according to a report by research agency MobData. The Shanghai-based firm also found that most iPhone users are unmarried females aged between 18 and 34, who graduated with just a high-school certificate and earn a monthly income of below 3,000 yuan (HK$3,800). They are perceived to be part of a group known as the “invisible poor” – those who do not look as poor as their financial circumstances." [1] https://www.scmp.com/tech/article/2174310/research-highlights-class-divide-between-poor-apple-iphone-and-rich-huawei https://www.scmp.com/tech/article/2174310/research-highlight...

FooBarWidget 6y ago

Do you think nationality is the only reason, or do you think they could also genuinely disagree with Huawei's treatment, for reasons that are reasonable if one accepts a different point of view?

AsyncAwait 6y ago
I am not Chinese and do think that the amount of accusations is much larger than the body of evidence to support them, I'd guess there are others of similar opinion, some of them Chinese, others not. What I dislike is people generally assuming that I somehow agree with every single thing Huawei, or the CCP for that matter, has ever done.
- totalZero 6y ago
  The body of evidence that Huawei steals intellectual property is quite substantial. If you want to read about it, you can start with these: https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1124996/download https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1124996/downl... https://blogs.cisco.com/news/huawei-and-ciscos-source-code-correcting-the-record https://blogs.cisco.com/news/huawei-and-ciscos-source-code-c... https://amlawdaily.typepad.com/motorolahuawei.pdf https://amlawdaily.typepad.com/motorolahuawei.pdf https://www.mpegla.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/FINAL-Huawei-ZTE-Infringement-PrsRls-2018-11-16.pdf https://www.mpegla.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/FINAL-Huaw...
  - AsyncAwait 6y ago
    I am looking for extensive evidence that they backdoor their equipment and feed data to the CCP. As far as the "intellectual property" goes, it is used by the winners to kick down the ladder they themselves climbed. The U.S. used to steal from Europe while it was developing, now suddenly IP matters a lot. The Japanese used to steal quite a bit of IP, yet Nintendo is now super hawkish to protect its own. Chinese companies will get overly protective of its own IP once they sufficiently develop. All in all, is a well known circle that may signal it's time to rethink how IP is currently structured and enforced around the world.

beaunative 6y ago

Tha fact those ex-colleagues and friends who bought and use iPhone in the first place indciates they are not generally a nationalist person. The reason they bought Huawei is because they realized when the US is banning Huawei, while China is not banning Apple, that is simply not fair, the US is not what it claims to be, or what they thought it to be. To be clear, I don't think it's fair either.

seanmcdirmid 6y ago
Or they could have been worried about not being seen as nationalistic to their peers and bosses, even if they aren’t that nationalistic themselves. A lot of nationalism in China is derived from social and peer pressure.
- Aperocky 6y ago
  > despite being outside of China Yeah that doesn't seem to be the case.
  - seanmcdirmid 6y ago
    Peer pressure from other Chinese still exists especially outside of China, but it is more likely they felt nationalism since they were abroad and it wasn't being forced down their throat everyday. The best way to make kids hate Mao is to force them to take a class on him.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
resdeterr 6y ago
But every major US tech company is banned or blocked from competing in China, isn’t it? and has been for a decade or more. Apple is the one exception. In which direction do they think the current situation is unfair? (to be clear, I’m not sure whether I agree with it or not, but it seems like a strange thing to focus on exclusively)

coliveira 6y ago

Nothing different here from the patriotic sentiment in America. One should not be so surprised with something that is already so common in a particular Western country.

coliveira 6y ago

You don't need to assume patriotic sentiment for this. The Chinese are paying a lot more than other companies, and the project is clearly fantastic. Even I would be interested if this was happening in my industry.

whywhywhywhy 6y ago

Plenty of my friends switched from iPhones to Huawei, they're not Chinese though it's just since iPhones got more expensive when you drop them a few times you just decide to go for something cheaper and Huawei hits all the points they look for in iPhones. The value prop of the iPhone just isn't there anymore if you are not stuck in the ecosystem.