4 ms·

I mean... maybe, but probably not. Science has also learned a lot since then, and most skeptics aren’t scientists. Plausible cynicism grade: C-

by gbrown 6y ago

duncan_bayne 6y ago
Well, I assume that along with her would also be a bunch of genuine cranks, mystics, "skeptics" etc. She'd be collateral damage. Similar case that springs to mind is the chap who had to infect himself to prove that stomach ulcers were caused by bacteria.
- wombatmobile 6y ago
  Barry Marshall can just wave his Nobel prize at any skeptic. https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/2005/press-release/ https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/2005/press-releas... Lyn Margulis did not and will not ever have that pleasure, because, like Rosalind Franklin, (a) she was female, and (b) she's now dead.
  - wombatmobile 6y ago
    I'd like the human who modded my comment down, presumably for exposing gender bias in the awarding of the Nobel prizes, to let us know his/her/? gender.
    - Proziam 6y ago
      I'm being downvoted for simply pointing out that there was/is a public 'debate' (if we can even give it that much credit) about hydroxychloroquine, and that the current state of online communication makes me able to imagine similar reactions to Lynn Margulis's work. I wouldn't take it personally, anything political on this forum seems to experience high variance.
      - wombatmobile 6y ago
        I don’t mind. It’s an expression of the mind of the moderator. I like to try to guess their age and gender. But they are invisible so I don’t get any confirmation. I like this Hacker News. The discourse is civil and often informative.
Proziam 6y ago
Based on the debate currently raging over hydroxychloroquine and its uses/effectiveness I can totally imagine the typical Twitter reaction being of rather poor quality.
- raducu 6y ago
  Is there any scientific consensus/studies showing hydroxycloriquine as effective? As far as I know, the biggest impact right now seem to be: anti-clotting medication, steroids, turning the patient on his belly and avoiding intubation for as long as possible.
  - Proziam 6y ago
    As of right now, I believe the general consensus is that it's not effective (or at least not more effective than standard treatment). However, if you went back just a few weeks you'd have seen quite a few credible people claiming it could very well be a gamechanger. It says something that Trump was taking it, because even if you dislike the man it's hard to imagine there is any other human being on the planet with greater access to the world's best doctors and whatever bleeding edge technology could be used. That said, I was really highlighting a recent example of how poor communication is, and how fast opinion can shift.
    - gspr 6y ago
      > As of right now, I believe the general consensus is that it's not effective (or at least not more effective than standard treatment). However, if you went back just a few weeks you'd have seen quite a few credible people claiming it could very well be a gamechanger. I'm sorry, does this address the comment at all? There was indeed, this spring, real scientific debate over the potential efficacy of hydroxychloroquine. But the raging Twitter wars over it did not constitute that debate.
      - Proziam 6y ago
        No need to be sorry! I was asked if there's consensus regarding the effectiveness of HCQ. Currently, there is not. Not long ago, medical professionals were recommending it and there was, at least publicly, a consensus of sorts based on the positive results of early studies. I then pointed out how fast consensus shifted from 'this stuff is awesome' to 'this stuff is stupid' because I believe it's relevant for anyone trying to formulate their own opinion about how solid that consensus really is. The twitter wars and the general terrible communication online is a totally separate topic, and the one I was originally commenting on because /u/gbrown seemed to have a more positive outlook than I do on the subject.
raxxorrax 6y ago
Every scientist should be skeptical. Doesn't mean he should join some skeptics movement.
- gbrown 6y ago
  I meant to put skeptics in scare quotes. It could also be replaced with “self-described skeptics”.

I mean... maybe, but probably not. Science has also learned a lot since then, and most skeptics aren’t scientists. Plausible cynicism grade: C-

by gbrown 6y ago

I mean... maybe, but probably not. Science has also learned a lot since then, and most skeptics aren’t scientists. Plausible cynicism grade: C-

duncan_bayne 6y ago

Well, I assume that along with her would also be a bunch of genuine cranks, mystics, "skeptics" etc. She'd be collateral damage. Similar case that springs to mind is the chap who had to infect himself to prove that stomach ulcers were caused by bacteria.

wombatmobile 6y ago
Barry Marshall can just wave his Nobel prize at any skeptic. https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/2005/press-release/ https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/2005/press-releas... Lyn Margulis did not and will not ever have that pleasure, because, like Rosalind Franklin, (a) she was female, and (b) she's now dead.
- wombatmobile 6y ago
  I'd like the human who modded my comment down, presumably for exposing gender bias in the awarding of the Nobel prizes, to let us know his/her/? gender.
  - Proziam 6y ago
    I'm being downvoted for simply pointing out that there was/is a public 'debate' (if we can even give it that much credit) about hydroxychloroquine, and that the current state of online communication makes me able to imagine similar reactions to Lynn Margulis's work. I wouldn't take it personally, anything political on this forum seems to experience high variance.
    - wombatmobile 6y ago
      I don’t mind. It’s an expression of the mind of the moderator. I like to try to guess their age and gender. But they are invisible so I don’t get any confirmation. I like this Hacker News. The discourse is civil and often informative.

Proziam 6y ago

Based on the debate currently raging over hydroxychloroquine and its uses/effectiveness I can totally imagine the typical Twitter reaction being of rather poor quality.

raducu 6y ago
Is there any scientific consensus/studies showing hydroxycloriquine as effective? As far as I know, the biggest impact right now seem to be: anti-clotting medication, steroids, turning the patient on his belly and avoiding intubation for as long as possible.
- Proziam 6y ago
  As of right now, I believe the general consensus is that it's not effective (or at least not more effective than standard treatment). However, if you went back just a few weeks you'd have seen quite a few credible people claiming it could very well be a gamechanger. It says something that Trump was taking it, because even if you dislike the man it's hard to imagine there is any other human being on the planet with greater access to the world's best doctors and whatever bleeding edge technology could be used. That said, I was really highlighting a recent example of how poor communication is, and how fast opinion can shift.
  - gspr 6y ago
    > As of right now, I believe the general consensus is that it's not effective (or at least not more effective than standard treatment). However, if you went back just a few weeks you'd have seen quite a few credible people claiming it could very well be a gamechanger. I'm sorry, does this address the comment at all? There was indeed, this spring, real scientific debate over the potential efficacy of hydroxychloroquine. But the raging Twitter wars over it did not constitute that debate.
    - Proziam 6y ago
      No need to be sorry! I was asked if there's consensus regarding the effectiveness of HCQ. Currently, there is not. Not long ago, medical professionals were recommending it and there was, at least publicly, a consensus of sorts based on the positive results of early studies. I then pointed out how fast consensus shifted from 'this stuff is awesome' to 'this stuff is stupid' because I believe it's relevant for anyone trying to formulate their own opinion about how solid that consensus really is. The twitter wars and the general terrible communication online is a totally separate topic, and the one I was originally commenting on because /u/gbrown seemed to have a more positive outlook than I do on the subject.

raxxorrax 6y ago

Every scientist should be skeptical. Doesn't mean he should join some skeptics movement.

gbrown 6y ago
I meant to put skeptics in scare quotes. It could also be replaced with “self-described skeptics”.