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‘Enforcement’ Coming at Ocean Beach Park Where Weekly Drum Circle Crowds Gather
- exabrial 6y agoLet people worship as they choose. Adults have the right to choose their own risk.
- kanox 6y agoNo they don't.
- diffeomorphism 6y agoI don't care about their risk, but they don't have a right to put everyone else at risk. Analogy: If you play with fire and get burned, that is up to you. If you play with fire and burn your neighbor's house down...
- exabrial 6y agoHow are they going to expose you to a risk? Are they entering your home?
- AnimalMuppet 6y agoI'm pretty sure they're going to enter a store...
- exabrial 6y ago_so don't enter a store_
- AnimalMuppet 6y agoI shouldn't enter a store because they're being irresponsible? That seems like putting the burden where it does not belong. Larger scale: Nobody else should enter a store, because these people should be able to do their thing without "putting anyone else at risk"? That's absurd. They are putting other people at risk, and everyone else shouldn't have to go ridiculously far out of their way to avoid the risk. [Edit: Oh, yeah. What if I work at the store? At that point, "don't enter the store" is... somewhat lacking as usable advice.]
- exabrial 6y agoSo we've established nobody is entering your home, and nobody is making you enter a store. So there's zero risk for transmission. Now you say what about the workers? Great! What percentage of stores aren't doing curbside delivery right now?
- jejeri8d8d 6y agoWhat if I choose to worship by raping your kids?
- aaron695 6y ago> Let people worship as they choose. Adults have the right to choose their own risk. This is inconsistent. Either the risk is on them, in which case it doesn't just apply to religion, it should be anything. Or you think it has risk to the community, but religion should get preferential treatment.
- everybodyknows 6y agoAfter they leave the drum circle, they transfer the health risk to all the store clerks and medical personnel they approach. If they end up in the hospital, they transfer the financial burden to the insurance, hospital, and public aid systems, at a rate of however many thousands of dollars per day. They have no right to do this to the rest of us.
- ta17711771 6y agoI agree with you. As a human rights advocate, though, curious: where is the line, in everyone's mind? Can we use the law on people who don't wash their hands after they use the restroom? Etc
- goldenManatee 6y agoYour response is to do nothing because of an extreme edge case?
- SpicyLemonZest 6y agoA law that everyone has to wash their hands after using the restroom seems less severe, to me, than a law that nobody's allowed to gather in public.
- comex 6y agoI agree in principle. That said, a law about washing hands would be impossible to actually enforce without some kind of highly intrusive surveillance, which itself would be a severe downside. But a law that wasn’t actively enforced and only existed so posters could say “wash your hands - it’s the law!” would be… fine, IMO… though I doubt it would produce much if any actual increase in handwashing.
- mrfusion 6y agoWe’ve never thought that way about flu’s.
- valuearb 6y agoWorship what?
- elisbce 6y agoYou have the right to determine your own fate. You can blow yourself up at home. Fine. Nobody cares. You don't have the right to come out and put everyone else at risk, esp. when it comes to a highly-infectious and potentially deadly disease.
- vondur 6y agoEveryone knows to get rid of hippies, break out the Slayer!
- mindfulhack 6y agoThen in addition to committing murder you would have prevented the creation of Apple Computer. Read Steve Jobs' biography by Walter Isaacson to see just how 'hippie' he was while changing the world.
- vondur 6y agoSorry, it’s a Southpark episode reference, not dissing Apple
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- ops 6y agoI live in OB, and the idea of any type of enforcement is laughable. I can go down to the area in the article any time, day or night, and buy pot, meth, cocaine, LSD, DMT, mushrooms, heroin, ketamine, etc in less than 10 minutes. If they can't enforce the drug laws, how are they going to do with the mask laws?
- linksnapzz 6y agoYeah, I used to live down the street from there; and despite being the most square-looking person ever, people would try to buy pot, meth, etc. off of me. City was pretty naive to put that fence up and think it would last more than a few hours. I suppose they could put cyclone fence up, but that would just mean drum circles in front of the police substation trailer at the base of the pier. (On the steps of said trailer, pot is also sold.)
- tomcam 6y agoJust call it a protest. This is going to be so downvoted.
- credit_guy 6y agoSo, after 6 months of Covid19 worldwide, where's our understanding of the probability of outdoors transmission? My toy understanding is that the probability of catching the disease is somewhat proportional with the product of the level and duration of the exposure. You can get it after just minutes of exposure in an ICU room where someone very sick has put a lot of germs in the air, or after a few hours in a poorly ventilated restaurant where a mildly symptomatic person has been talking and occasionally sneezing two tables away from you. Getting the virus on a beach seems astronomically improbable, except maybe if a sick person kisses you. Where are all the peer-reviewed scientific articles that summarize the conclusions of all the tracing that was done in the world?
- elisbce 6y agoBased on observations, your assumption that people on the beach are: 1) practicing proper and effective social distancing, 2) properly wearing medical masks with at least a water-resistant layer with high enough (e.g. 95%) filtering capability (not just some fashionable piece of cloth like bandana) 3) doing the above strictly for every single minute on the beach 4) proper wind condition to bring the viral load down to non-infectious level just does not happen in practice. People do not follow strict practices and bump into each other all the time. So your conclusion that getting the virus on a beach is astronomically small is likely invalidated.
- credit_guy 6y agoI'm not making these assumptions. I think it's virtually impossible to contract Covid on the beach, regardless of masks or social distancing or wind conditions. Why? Whatever germ load someone sick expels via breathing/talking/sneezing/coughing is instantaneously diluted to infinitesimal levels because the ventilation on the beach is very good. If someone farts on the beach, nobody can feel the stink. If someone farts in an elevator, people can still feel that fifteen minutes after. But, you and I are simply guessing. My question is: where is the science? Why is it silent on this? Why all we know at this point is still the pulled-out-of-a-hat 6 feet of social distancing and "wash your hands"? Why is the media not publicizing more widely studies like [1] that you are 18.7 times more likely to contract Covid indoors than outdoors? [1] https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.28.20029272v2 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.28.20029272v...
- SamReidHughes 6y agoThe curve is flattened. It’s better for the virus to burn through young people in the summer, unless you want to pretend we won’t hit herd immunity.
- triceratops 6y agoAs a young person, I don't want the virus to "burn through" me and my friends.
- SamReidHughes 6y agoWell guess what, it's not going to magically disappear.
- triceratops 6y agoDefinitely won't disappear with an attitude like "It’s better for the virus to burn through young people".
- SamReidHughes 6y agoYes it will, because that’s how immunity works.
- triceratops 6y agoThat's not magic. And it costs hundreds of thousands of lives.