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I used to run ultramarathons and I’ve since switched to cycling. I find that I injure myself less on the bike, probably because of my very flat feet and unwilli

I used to run ultramarathons and I’ve since switched to cycling. I find that I injure myself less on the bike, probably because of my very flat feet and unwillingness to mix in the strength training that would make me less injury prone when running. Running isn’t bad for your knees (or any other body part) but doing it a lot and not paying attention to issues is a recipe for disaster. I ended up injuring myself repeatedly because I was chasing the feeling that I got from running. I’m still chasing that feeling on the bike. I don’t get quite as zen on the bike. I think it’s because there is more speed involved (going into my mind at 20+ mph isn’t a good idea) and because I’m not getting the proprioception feedback (there’s just something about ambulating through space that’s hypnotic). I still get the post-exercise benefits and I’m hoping to chase down more of the zen as I go farther and farther on the bike. I think the article has some dubious reasoning when coming up for justifications for why ultramarathons tend to attract rich white guys. I think the biggest elements in any endurance sport are time and overall nutrition. If you don’t have the time to train and the resources to fuel yourself consistently with high quality food you’re probably not going to enjoy training and participating in ultra endurance events, no matter how much you “yearn for a rawer form of human experience” or want to exercise your “control-and-conquer mentality.” Societal inequality means that the people who have an excess of time and money can participate, hence the rich white guys. I’m grateful to be one of the lucky ones who can participate, even though I probably only qualify for one half of the “rich white guy” descriptor. I’m fortunate to be self employed, which gives me a lot of control over my schedule. Final thought: The anecdote about the Kenyan professional is ridiculous. The “motivated” amateur calls out the professional for quitting the race when he injured his toe and says it’s because “he wasn’t there to suffer,” then goes on to insinuate that the professional only wanted to feel good. In reality the Kenyan professional relies on running as his profession (one which likely gives him a better standard of living than almost any other opportunity in his country) and rightly wants to protect his body as it needs to be in good working order to do his job. What kind of person puts down a professional for looking after himself so he can feel better about running a long distance?

jarnagin 6y ago
> "Oh, Parkinson, Parkinson!" I cried, patting him affectionately on the head with a mallet, "how far you really are from the pure love of the sport—you who can play. It is only we who play badly who love the Game itself. You love glory; you love applause; you love the earthquake voice of victory; you do not love croquet. You do not love croquet until you love being beaten at croquet. It is we the bunglers who adore the occupation in the abstract. It is we to whom it is art for art's sake. Excerpted from “The Perfect Game”, by G.K. Chesterton
- philsnow 6y ago
  GKC's famous quotation[0] about "a thing worth doing [...] is worth doing badly" comes to mind. There's a joy to be had in allowing yourself to not be amazing at everything you try. For one thing, it frees you to try lots of things. [0] https://www.chesterton.org/a-thing-worth-doing/ https://www.chesterton.org/a-thing-worth-doing/
- dTal 6y ago
  Why, this speech would be an excellent thing to deploy, if you should yourself losing a game of croquet to a superior opponent. A true gamesmanship[0] tactic. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamesmanship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamesmanship
jsharf 6y ago
He doesn't actually say anything negative about the runner -- he just pointed it out to say that there's two kinds of people doing ultramarathons. (1) Professionals and (2) people who are chasing a high and don't care about their health (74% of runners would continue doing it even if they knew it was bad for their health)
- redelbee 6y ago
  On a second read I see what you mean. I didn’t make the connection between the comparisons of motivation where the amateur is motivated to “suffer” and the pro is motivated by something unspecified. The closest thing is when he says the pro “wanted to feel good and strong and the moment that stopped, he stopped.” It probably would have been more charitable to point out the fact that the pro is probably motivated by continuing to pursue his livelihood instead of feeling “good and strong,” or even that feeling good and strong is required for his day job. I also bristled a bit at the contrast of running as a professional sport versus an extreme test of body and mind. It seems to me that pro athletes are definitely engaged in an extreme test of body and mind, and likely moreso than the weekend warrior looking to suffer occasionally to escape the doldrums of modern work or whatever.
saeranv 6y ago
I'm curious, did you also find any benefit in increasing focus and concentration in your regular work?
- redelbee 6y ago
  I think endurance exercise is mostly great for increasing focus and concentration for me, with a few exceptions. Higher training volume sometimes leads to somewhat slower thinking. That could be an advantage in some situations where consideration is better than quickly reacting, but not always. Inadequate nutrition compounds the issue, so if I’ve been training a lot and not getting in enough good calories I might find myself underperforming. There’s a reason pro athletes consider eating and resting adequately a significant part of their full-time job.
unicornporn 6y ago
> I’m still chasing that feeling on the bike. I don’t get quite as zen on the bike. I hate to reduce your post to tech talk. But, what bike are your riding? I try and build a lot I'd bikes and the experience differs wildly. For starters, <40 mm tires sucks for zen riding.
- redelbee 6y ago
  The bike I ride depends on the day and why I’m riding. I’ve collected a few bikes over the years. I have an old steel cross bike transformed into a grocery getter that’s outfitted with wide slick tires, a rear rack, and pannier bags that I use when I need to haul stuff around. I have a gravel bike with disc brakes, wide knobby tires, and a slightly more relaxed geometry for riding/exploring on gravel/dirt or rougher paved roads. I have a carbon “race” bike with deep section wheels and a pretty aggressive geometry for going fast on paved roads. I sometimes get close to the “zen” feeling that I got when running ultra distances but it goes away pretty quickly when I’m doing anything but going in a straight line on flat roads with no traffic. As you can imagine this doesn’t happen often. Contrast that with trail running (most of what I did for ultras) where I was just rambling along in nature. It was much easier to look inward when running on the trails.
- vladvasiliu 6y ago
  Hm, I'd say the environment can matter quite a lot. My own bike is a carbon "race" bike with 21mm tyres and yet I'm sure I get in that "zen" zone practically every time I ride it. I ride it exclusively in the countryside, on mostly secondary roads. I sometimes ride a bike with fatter tyres in the city and I never get in that zen state. Probably because I have to stay very alert, even when riding on bike paths separate from the street.
hondo77 6y ago
> I’m still chasing that feeling on the bike. I don’t get quite as zen on the bike. I don't know about zen but it sure can get my mind off work and troubles. I used to do long, somewhat urban commutes on my bike. I didn't have time to think about whatever because in that environment I needed to be fully in the moment.
- BLKNSLVR 6y ago
  That's what I get from roller skating (at crowded-ish rinks). I'm not that great at it, so I need to be concentrating to the exclusion of almost everything else in order to not crash into children like an irresponsible adult. The pulsing flow of the other skaters; the groups, like schools of fish, expanding and contracting, creating gaps to squeeze through on only one foot which then immediately close hard behind you, blocking anyone who may have been following, meaning that any path through congestion is necessarily unique to the individual. The requirement of an almost full 360-degree awareness of a varying number of parts all moving at different speeds. And yet family-friendly at the same time in the same space.
nradov 6y ago
Cycling is great and has a relatively low risk of injury (if you avoid getting hit by a car). But people who only ride bikes tend to end up with lower bone density and weak core muscles. If you want to stay fit for the long term you need to mix in some high impact and resistance training.
- nix23 6y ago
  >But people who only ride bikes tend to end up with lower bone density and weak core muscles. Really depends what biking, Downhill biking needs more Core muscles the anything i know, with one exception witch is Motocross. Sprinting Street-bike training also needs loots of Arm-muscles.
twobuy 6y ago
Just off the top of my head, Kenya has a KPMG office. I don't think its accurate to say that Kenyans have to be runners for a sniff of opportunity. This is the sort of patronizing contradiction that comes out when white people self-flagellate.
- hedhd8f8fu 6y ago
  No, the type of pathetic comment you describe is yours. How the fuck do you even know he is white? You people who want to feel good by being a shit are total scum.
- redelbee 6y ago
  According to Kenya’s own data from 2018, public and private sector annual wages average around 685,000 Kenyan Shillings, or around $6,320 annually (page 47 of the report), and for informal sector employment annual wages topped out at around 240,000 Kenyan Shillings (~$2,300) for urban workers (page 52) and around 104,000 Kenyan Shillings (~$1,000) for agricultural workers (page 51). https://africacheck.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Economic-Survey-2018.pdf https://africacheck.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Economic-... This NYT article outlines some of the earnings for top Kenyan runners, which run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. The article also focuses on some of the issues that come with the increased earnings, which seems to parallel the “lottery winner” effect where riches don’t necessarily lead to health and happiness. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/22/sports/kenyan-runners.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/22/sports/kenyan-runners.htm... I’m sure there are opportunities outside of running, and some of them are probably even better. So perhaps it would be more accurate to say that running is a better than average opportunity based on the data.

jarnagin 6y ago

> "Oh, Parkinson, Parkinson!" I cried, patting him affectionately on the head with a mallet, "how far you really are from the pure love of the sport—you who can play. It is only we who play badly who love the Game itself. You love glory; you love applause; you love the earthquake voice of victory; you do not love croquet. You do not love croquet until you love being beaten at croquet. It is we the bunglers who adore the occupation in the abstract. It is we to whom it is art for art's sake. Excerpted from “The Perfect Game”, by G.K. Chesterton

philsnow 6y ago
GKC's famous quotation[0] about "a thing worth doing [...] is worth doing badly" comes to mind. There's a joy to be had in allowing yourself to not be amazing at everything you try. For one thing, it frees you to try lots of things. [0] https://www.chesterton.org/a-thing-worth-doing/ https://www.chesterton.org/a-thing-worth-doing/
dTal 6y ago
Why, this speech would be an excellent thing to deploy, if you should yourself losing a game of croquet to a superior opponent. A true gamesmanship[0] tactic. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamesmanship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamesmanship

jsharf 6y ago

He doesn't actually say anything negative about the runner -- he just pointed it out to say that there's two kinds of people doing ultramarathons. (1) Professionals and (2) people who are chasing a high and don't care about their health (74% of runners would continue doing it even if they knew it was bad for their health)

redelbee 6y ago
On a second read I see what you mean. I didn’t make the connection between the comparisons of motivation where the amateur is motivated to “suffer” and the pro is motivated by something unspecified. The closest thing is when he says the pro “wanted to feel good and strong and the moment that stopped, he stopped.” It probably would have been more charitable to point out the fact that the pro is probably motivated by continuing to pursue his livelihood instead of feeling “good and strong,” or even that feeling good and strong is required for his day job. I also bristled a bit at the contrast of running as a professional sport versus an extreme test of body and mind. It seems to me that pro athletes are definitely engaged in an extreme test of body and mind, and likely moreso than the weekend warrior looking to suffer occasionally to escape the doldrums of modern work or whatever.

saeranv 6y ago

I'm curious, did you also find any benefit in increasing focus and concentration in your regular work?

redelbee 6y ago
I think endurance exercise is mostly great for increasing focus and concentration for me, with a few exceptions. Higher training volume sometimes leads to somewhat slower thinking. That could be an advantage in some situations where consideration is better than quickly reacting, but not always. Inadequate nutrition compounds the issue, so if I’ve been training a lot and not getting in enough good calories I might find myself underperforming. There’s a reason pro athletes consider eating and resting adequately a significant part of their full-time job.

unicornporn 6y ago

> I’m still chasing that feeling on the bike. I don’t get quite as zen on the bike. I hate to reduce your post to tech talk. But, what bike are your riding? I try and build a lot I'd bikes and the experience differs wildly. For starters, <40 mm tires sucks for zen riding.

redelbee 6y ago
The bike I ride depends on the day and why I’m riding. I’ve collected a few bikes over the years. I have an old steel cross bike transformed into a grocery getter that’s outfitted with wide slick tires, a rear rack, and pannier bags that I use when I need to haul stuff around. I have a gravel bike with disc brakes, wide knobby tires, and a slightly more relaxed geometry for riding/exploring on gravel/dirt or rougher paved roads. I have a carbon “race” bike with deep section wheels and a pretty aggressive geometry for going fast on paved roads. I sometimes get close to the “zen” feeling that I got when running ultra distances but it goes away pretty quickly when I’m doing anything but going in a straight line on flat roads with no traffic. As you can imagine this doesn’t happen often. Contrast that with trail running (most of what I did for ultras) where I was just rambling along in nature. It was much easier to look inward when running on the trails.
vladvasiliu 6y ago
Hm, I'd say the environment can matter quite a lot. My own bike is a carbon "race" bike with 21mm tyres and yet I'm sure I get in that "zen" zone practically every time I ride it. I ride it exclusively in the countryside, on mostly secondary roads. I sometimes ride a bike with fatter tyres in the city and I never get in that zen state. Probably because I have to stay very alert, even when riding on bike paths separate from the street.

hondo77 6y ago

> I’m still chasing that feeling on the bike. I don’t get quite as zen on the bike. I don't know about zen but it sure can get my mind off work and troubles. I used to do long, somewhat urban commutes on my bike. I didn't have time to think about whatever because in that environment I needed to be fully in the moment.

BLKNSLVR 6y ago
That's what I get from roller skating (at crowded-ish rinks). I'm not that great at it, so I need to be concentrating to the exclusion of almost everything else in order to not crash into children like an irresponsible adult. The pulsing flow of the other skaters; the groups, like schools of fish, expanding and contracting, creating gaps to squeeze through on only one foot which then immediately close hard behind you, blocking anyone who may have been following, meaning that any path through congestion is necessarily unique to the individual. The requirement of an almost full 360-degree awareness of a varying number of parts all moving at different speeds. And yet family-friendly at the same time in the same space.

nradov 6y ago

Cycling is great and has a relatively low risk of injury (if you avoid getting hit by a car). But people who only ride bikes tend to end up with lower bone density and weak core muscles. If you want to stay fit for the long term you need to mix in some high impact and resistance training.

nix23 6y ago
>But people who only ride bikes tend to end up with lower bone density and weak core muscles. Really depends what biking, Downhill biking needs more Core muscles the anything i know, with one exception witch is Motocross. Sprinting Street-bike training also needs loots of Arm-muscles.

twobuy 6y ago

Just off the top of my head, Kenya has a KPMG office. I don't think its accurate to say that Kenyans have to be runners for a sniff of opportunity. This is the sort of patronizing contradiction that comes out when white people self-flagellate.

hedhd8f8fu 6y ago
No, the type of pathetic comment you describe is yours. How the fuck do you even know he is white? You people who want to feel good by being a shit are total scum.
redelbee 6y ago
According to Kenya’s own data from 2018, public and private sector annual wages average around 685,000 Kenyan Shillings, or around $6,320 annually (page 47 of the report), and for informal sector employment annual wages topped out at around 240,000 Kenyan Shillings (~$2,300) for urban workers (page 52) and around 104,000 Kenyan Shillings (~$1,000) for agricultural workers (page 51). https://africacheck.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Economic-Survey-2018.pdf https://africacheck.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Economic-... This NYT article outlines some of the earnings for top Kenyan runners, which run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. The article also focuses on some of the issues that come with the increased earnings, which seems to parallel the “lottery winner” effect where riches don’t necessarily lead to health and happiness. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/22/sports/kenyan-runners.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/22/sports/kenyan-runners.htm... I’m sure there are opportunities outside of running, and some of them are probably even better. So perhaps it would be more accurate to say that running is a better than average opportunity based on the data.